Direction of this game
Machine
Posts: 857 Critical Contributor
Hi @Brigby,
I finally have some time to write this post. I have been wanting to write it this weekend, but this new event has eaten a lot of my time. Other players haven beaten me to it, but still I would like to discuss the direction this game is seemingly taking. There are several topics that need attention.
1) Duration of events. The Great Tournament is yet another 5 node coalition event that runs for three full days. The community has given feedback regarding duration of events over and over and again, this was ignored by the developers of this event. Most players have a hard time completing their nodes during Mondays as they have to work. I even had a team mate who announced he would quit after he found out that TGT also takes three full days (in combination with the horrible rewards *see 2)) Pair this with The Elderspark running next weekend, haunting players with back to back 3 days weekend events. Is this the new standard? If not, why did the developers choose for this setup?
2) Rewards. Self-explanatory if you look at the individual rewards for TGT. Why are the rewards so laughable for a THREE day event? With the slower format, a five node event takes A LOT of time. This investment should be returned / rewarded or players will lose motivation to play. Just playing for the sake of the team is not proper motivation. Topic 1) and 2) should be in balance or it will hurt the sustainability of the game. Can you explain why these improper individual rewards have been maintained, even after all the player feedback from the last event with the same reward structure (I think it is Ravnica at War)? Don't forget that a lot of players have families, kids, friends and other social activities
3) In what way is the VIP system affecting the decisions that are made when designing new events? Right now, it seems to me (I'm only speaking for myself now) that this game is heading to a pay 2 win direction. Can you give a statement on that?
I honestly believe that this game has a lot of potential, but as you can see on the other two* posts that have been created regarding the new event and its rewards, you see that the player base is engaged, but also concerned. I hope this post also reflects my concern. People should be rewarded for their effort. This is more like a punishment.
* these two posts are what I'm talking about:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/80618/tgt-feedback#latest
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/80597/the-great-tournament-rewards#latest
I hoped that the new set and the new event would rejuvinate players but you seem to have reached the opposite. It's a shame that players quit the game over the poor design and reward decisions made, even though the community has given ample feedback.
Note that I haven't touched the topic of bugs, because a lot of players in my team, including myself, have encountered the same bug that soft lock the game when activated gems that change gems to other colors / loyalty gems freezes the game. This has also been reported in the bug section of this forum. It is severe enough to patch this game asap.
I'm looking forward to your response. Thanks in advance.
Cheers!
I finally have some time to write this post. I have been wanting to write it this weekend, but this new event has eaten a lot of my time. Other players haven beaten me to it, but still I would like to discuss the direction this game is seemingly taking. There are several topics that need attention.
1) Duration of events. The Great Tournament is yet another 5 node coalition event that runs for three full days. The community has given feedback regarding duration of events over and over and again, this was ignored by the developers of this event. Most players have a hard time completing their nodes during Mondays as they have to work. I even had a team mate who announced he would quit after he found out that TGT also takes three full days (in combination with the horrible rewards *see 2)) Pair this with The Elderspark running next weekend, haunting players with back to back 3 days weekend events. Is this the new standard? If not, why did the developers choose for this setup?
2) Rewards. Self-explanatory if you look at the individual rewards for TGT. Why are the rewards so laughable for a THREE day event? With the slower format, a five node event takes A LOT of time. This investment should be returned / rewarded or players will lose motivation to play. Just playing for the sake of the team is not proper motivation. Topic 1) and 2) should be in balance or it will hurt the sustainability of the game. Can you explain why these improper individual rewards have been maintained, even after all the player feedback from the last event with the same reward structure (I think it is Ravnica at War)? Don't forget that a lot of players have families, kids, friends and other social activities
3) In what way is the VIP system affecting the decisions that are made when designing new events? Right now, it seems to me (I'm only speaking for myself now) that this game is heading to a pay 2 win direction. Can you give a statement on that?
I honestly believe that this game has a lot of potential, but as you can see on the other two* posts that have been created regarding the new event and its rewards, you see that the player base is engaged, but also concerned. I hope this post also reflects my concern. People should be rewarded for their effort. This is more like a punishment.
* these two posts are what I'm talking about:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/80618/tgt-feedback#latest
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/80597/the-great-tournament-rewards#latest
I hoped that the new set and the new event would rejuvinate players but you seem to have reached the opposite. It's a shame that players quit the game over the poor design and reward decisions made, even though the community has given ample feedback.
Note that I haven't touched the topic of bugs, because a lot of players in my team, including myself, have encountered the same bug that soft lock the game when activated gems that change gems to other colors / loyalty gems freezes the game. This has also been reported in the bug section of this forum. It is severe enough to patch this game asap.
I'm looking forward to your response. Thanks in advance.
Cheers!
44
Comments
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Machine said:
2) Rewards. Self-explanatory if you look at the individual rewards for TGT. Why are the rewards so laughable for a THREE day event? With the slower format, a five node event takes A LOT of time. This investment should be returned / rewarded or players will lose motivation to play. Just playing for the sake of the team is not proper motivation.Regarding the slower format, I repeat myself a lot about this...jtwood said:I've said it before, and I'll say it again: In a game that hands out rewards based on grinding, faster games are better. If that means busted cards, so be it. Or maybe it just means rebalancing all of the PWs' life totals so games don't drag out.jtwood said:Most of this game is about grinding. I’ll take quick wins.
Thanksjtwood said:This game is about grinding. Grinding is about winning. A lot. OP cards let you win faster, making grinding less tedious.
If they want to nerf cards and slow down games, they need to increase prizes to offset. Otherwise, put me in the OP camp.3 -
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starfall said:
I'm anti-OPcard, but like you, I also hate grind... I think two key ways we can make grinding less of a chore are fixing lag and load times.For whatever reason, I never have issues with lag or load times. Even with those gone from my experience, the games were longer just because I couldn't BSZ+Scapeshift+Rupture Spire every node. Yes, OP cards make the game less diverse and enjoyable. I won't argue with that ever. But they definitely speed up the game experience.Personally, I'd like to see lower PW life totals as a way to speed up the game without having to adjust power level of existing cards.0 -
Honestly, if we're talking about the direction of the game, it seems like minimal effort with more emphasis to spend money. Rewards aren't worth the time invested, and there's a constant push for VIP, possibly reinforced by the direction that most events now are PvP.I had been waiting to see what Eldraine brought to the game to decide, but at this point, it doesn't seem like the game is giving me any reason to keep playing. This is a disappointment considering how much time I have put into the game so far.3
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This is exactly why I want to address this. You are not the only one who feels like this. I hope @Brigby understands this and relays it to the developers. VIP is a nice feature for people who want to spend money and get resources and cards quickly, but VIP should NOT be a reason to decrease the rewards, making F2P players suffer.wereotter said:Honestly, if we're talking about the direction of the game, it seems like minimal effort with more emphasis to spend money. Rewards aren't worth the time invested, and there's a constant push for VIP, possibly reinforced by the direction that most events now are PvP.I had been waiting to see what Eldraine brought to the game to decide, but at this point, it doesn't seem like the game is giving me any reason to keep playing. This is a disappointment considering how much time I have put into the game so far.1 -
I 100% agree about the length of the events.
5 nodes take about an hour for me to clear, not counting deckbuilding time when I start the event.
Part of this is the slower format, part of it is stalling for objectives, and part of it is the 2 min of loading time before and after every match.
Whatever the cause, that is waaaaaay too much time, especially when the event lasts 3 full days and ESPECIALLY with the trash rewards.
Please make more 3 node events. If you want more diversity, make them like the original Terrors/Emrakul's Corruption events, where the event was 3 nodes but the colors of each node changed every time.0 -
I actually like 5-node, 3-color events. The deck designs that I face are various and fun in those events.But the total number of charges and time between them is where I get put off - even when rewards are good.4
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I feel like I could have written this myself1
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I’m being ground to death. I feel like all my normal decompress time on weekends is spent playing nodes. What used to be a fun hobby for me is now a chore — and the kicker — I don’t play top 10 anymore — I don’t usually finish these events. This is not the perspective of a competitive player. Not even completing 5 node PvP events or grindy PVE events like Elderspark feels like a chore.Why?The objectives.Boring, grindy objectives that I dread building for and don’t want to play. I didn’t event start TGT until late Saturday night because I took one look at the objectives early and thought “ugh, I don’t even want to build this, much less play it”. Big mistake. Made the event more grindy all day Sunday.
This weekend, my friends and family will just keep a wide distance from me. The Elderspark messes with my mood. It makes me hate the world. I feel like there’s nothing but darkness and there will never be light again. I will retreat to the solitude of my bedroom and listen to some kind of emo indie music on Spotify and sip tea as I silently brood over all the casual, new and mid level players who are completely getting screwed out of a fair game experience because the only feedback the devs took was changing the recharge timers.Everyone knows I don’t care about rewards. I’ve made that clear. I do care that you care, but I’m posting as a player and my opinions are my own.I care about stupid, grindy objectives. They affect the entire playerbase. I care that’s it’s gonna take everyone 45 minutes to cast 3 cards with Proliferate because they can’t water their decks down with those terrible cards and actually win. So they have to put one, maybe two in and fight for their lives until they pull them. Or maybe they’re a newer or casual player and that’s all they have. Also did I mention no one really wants to even play a card with Proliferate? They’re not very good. Please note that.I care that the second node of TE is harder than the third. It takes longer. It takes people away from their spouses, children, hobbies, etc. When that happens, people leave this game.
I have arguably led more players than anyone else in MtGPQ. I know what keeps people here and what drives them away. Give us a clean game, fair rewards, engaging objectives and use our time wisely. It seems none of this is being taken into consideration anymore.15 -
Until they fix these issues we can be an ear for our fellow players. And let them know we are there for them. And they are never alone.0
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bken1234 said:
The Elderspark messes with my mood. It makes me hate the world. I feel like there’s nothing but darkness and there will never be light again. I will retreat to the solitude of my bedroom and listen to some kind of emo indie music on Spotify and sip tea as I silently brood over all the casual, new and mid level players who are completely getting screwed out of a fair game experience because the only feedback the devs took was changing the recharge timers.
+1 when Greg got so good mana converting bust that like cheating and you got few mana each turn. All my gates convert missing the match but Greg's gates converting gem just next to the its color. Boom! - Frustrate and angry from the inner heart.
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bken1234 said:I have arguably led more players than anyone else in MtGPQ. I know what keeps people here and what drives them away. Give us a clean game, fair rewards, engaging objectives and use our time wisely. It seems none of this is being taken into consideration anymore.IMO, the fundamental structure of the game is flawed - much in the same way that Magic Arena drives me crazy. We have to play to get cards, so the fun part of the game becomes the work part of the game, thus taking away the fun. But when we do get enough cards so that obtaining more no longer becomes a critical necessity, there are no purely-fun avenues of the game where we can go and just enjoy the game.Coalition events, in particular, have such a narrow focus on competition. But intercoalition competition is not necessary for us to enjoy the game. Think of a game like World of Warcraft. WoW "coalitions" don't have to fight against each other. Instead, they have to team up to beat entities that would otherwise be insurmountable for any individual to conquer. We could do that in this game by having events where coalition members work together among themselves to accomplish some task that is entirely impossible to do as a lone wolf. Maybe have a timer on that event that increases rewards for coalitions who can accomplish the task quickly.And I know this one will never happen, but I think real-time PvP within coalitions - not between them - would be a huge win for this game. I don't want to play real-time PvP against a random jerk, but I have 19 friends in this game who I would loooooove to play against in real time. Hell, I'm so strongly in favor of this that I would fund a Kickstarter just to get it into the game.5
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Jup, I second Machine.
Coalition events lost their fun part and became a chore with their time consumption factor. Come on! Really?!? 5 Nodes?!? Is there somewhere an assumption, that players don't have a life, or are willing to give it up over a game?
Poor rewards and frustration from all the bugs and lags even further decrease the motivation to play.
I find myself a competitive player. I however am also a social human being. And there is no way, I put my family and friends aside for the game. So as I don't want to hold anyone back I already asked in my community for a spot in a (lot) less competitive coalition. Which will also have a lot lesser rewards - no surprise there. What does that mean in the end? That will be even less motivation to play. And so with ti.me will my mtgpq obsession very much bleed to death. And once that has happened I'll probably look for another game, that gives me more joy.
Am I the only one? HARDLY!
So dear developers: you go direction you go, if you insist to. However you get definetly somewhere else, than you first intended to.2 -
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It's interesting what a little bit of time will do to one's perspective, isn't it?starfall said:Normally when we get a thread like this, opinion on the forums is very divided; some people complain about the volume and quality of games they are forced to play, whereas other reminding them that nobody is forcing anyone to play anything.
Here's such a thread from earlier this year:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/77226/how-many-games-do-you-want-to-be-forced-to-play-per-day/p1
Relatedly, objectives have always disappointed me. It seemed they were getting looser for awhile, but they've tightened back up again. This is unfortunate, because there are times lately when I've found a very fun New Standard deck to play, and then look at the events and realize that it doesn't fit anywhere. Thus, I can't play it anywhere except in TG. Whee.
That may be the aspect I've missed most in the conversion from paper to PQ. I just want to bring a deck and smash face. I don't want to meet a bunch of arbitrary, forced objectives that pigeonhole my deck into certain cards and strategies.
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- minus 1 charge , same finish time, all charges up front. putting chains on your customers doesn't create a relaxing gameplay and enjoyable experience over the weekend.
- rewards are fine only if extended rewards for people who commit to trying through the whole event. Only adding to your coalition score doesn't bring a lot of incentive, especially, when there are numerous bugs that can railroad your investment of time.
- stop making so many useless cards in every set. This goes for cards that introduce new mechanics.
The new all green event was fun , but the last weekend coalition event was a slog for poor rewards.
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Is this the part where I get to beg for Old NOP?madwren said:
It's interesting what a little bit of time will do to one's perspective, isn't it?starfall said:Normally when we get a thread like this, opinion on the forums is very divided; some people complain about the volume and quality of games they are forced to play, whereas other reminding them that nobody is forcing anyone to play anything.
Here's such a thread from earlier this year:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/77226/how-many-games-do-you-want-to-be-forced-to-play-per-day/p1
Relatedly, objectives have always disappointed me. It seemed they were getting looser for awhile, but they've tightened back up again. This is unfortunate, because there are times lately when I've found a very fun New Standard deck to play, and then look at the events and realize that it doesn't fit anywhere. Thus, I can't play it anywhere except in TG. Whee.
That may be the aspect I've missed most in the conversion from paper to PQ. I just want to bring a deck and smash face. I don't want to meet a bunch of arbitrary, forced objectives that pigeonhole my deck into certain cards and strategies.While we’re at it, enough with the special supports. They screw with my decks.What ever happened to simple things like Supercharged or Enraged?It’s ok to just give us a simple, no fuss event from time to time, guys. We won’t complain.2 -
What makes it worse.... you have waited for so long to meet the grindy objectives and when you're about to deal the killer blow on your next turn... then the game freezes. I don't even know why I'm still playing this game... maybe because I've already invested a lot of time and effort collecting cards... or maybe because I'm already going nuts expecting game devs/publisher to improve quality of life for their player base but (fill in the blanks) every time.1
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And then you start the node over and you have to take an extra 2 minutes at the beginning to read what the special supports do because you already forgot — because there’s too many special supports. Which is another thing to keep up with and makes everything feel more grindy.Horadrim said:What makes it worse.... you have waited for so long to meet the grindy objectives and when you're about to deal the killer blow on your next turn... then the game freezes. I don't even know why I'm still playing this game... maybe because I've already invested a lot of time and effort collecting cards... or maybe because I'm already going nuts expecting game devs/publisher to improve quality of life for their player base but (fill in the blanks) every time.0 -
I agree with what's said here, well spoken.
Admittedly, I already put most of my time (and money) into other games these days. I only paricipate in coalition events, and the occasional quick event.
If the game keeps this course, I don't see myself returning to anything beyond casual.0
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