Is this working as intended?

grunth13
grunth13 Posts: 608 Critical Contributor
in MPQ General Discussion
I would rather hit a 550 thor okoye 567 px than face a 450ish he 380ish worthy cap  380ish magic/bishop/juggs/sabertooth or a 460 jj/strange because I have a higher win percentage against the 550's then the 450's.  This is just plain asinine.  I am being penalized for having too big of a roster.  Now here's another kwincky dink that no one has talked about...because I use my 550's to reach the sea of he/cap/xxx, I can't leave out my own he/cap/xxx since my defensive team is now set at the 550 because the levels are too different.  So all these lower rosters can kill my team of 550s even though I am using the same trolly team as everyone else because I can't go any smaller due to the cupcake era nerf.  If we are going to not nerf these 2 characters, then free up my defensive team to be whoever I used last.  
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Comments

  • Mrcl25
    Mrcl25 Posts: 138 Tile Toppler
    I always thought your defensive team was the last team you used. How does this work?
  • grunth13
    grunth13 Posts: 608 Critical Contributor
    Mrcl25 said:
    I always thought your defensive team was the last team you used. How does this work?
    It used to work like that,  but a few years ago,  people were complaining that people were "baking" with 1 star or 2 star and loaner so that whoever got that team would get a super easy team.   Because of the complaining,  the developers changed the rules that if your grill team was too much lower in levels than your a team, it would not change your team to the lower leveled one.  
  • purplemur
    purplemur Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    I want to say I would like the last victorious  team to be the one queued up but I don’t remember what was the problem with cupcaking?
    The collusion? Artificial points? What are the negative repercussions with cupcakes again?

  • purplemur
    purplemur Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    So basically everybody’s getting fat on empty calories- I get it- baking cupcakes
    ;)
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,814 Chairperson of the Boards
    The rockett said:
    The last bunch of 4* specially Bishop and HammerCap are just completely broken.  

    As a 5* player you make 1 match against bishop and his passive goes off and gains AP.  You cannot even make a single match against him, which is against the whole premise of this 3 match game.  Even during Bishops glory PVP 2019, a fully champed and boosted Bishop, his passive would STILL go off on a single 3 match start. 

    HammerCap, did a match against him and BEFORE AI made their first move, they had 30 Blue AP. 

    How is right?   Why is this allowed to happen without any word from the Dev team on this?  I don’t care if the meta shifts but when I know i cannot even make a match to start a match without the AI team getting a minimum of 5 and max of 30 AP is insane.  @grunth13  concerns are 100% accurate and should, at least, get the Dev teams attention to at least tell us if this is what they want.  
    All through SIM now I've been hitting this team as often as I see it. The closest I can get is with Xpool Okoye and Thor and hoping to match TU to allow Xpool to kill them off fast.. I've had a few close matches that I've lost but I've won 2 from 10 so far. I actually think he's the most broken character combo I've see in the game. I'd take old 3bit and Gwen over this any day. I'd prefer everyone to have old 5* gambit.

    I don't know what the fix is with Worthy other than to greatly increase that trigger point.
  • Sm0keyJ0e
    Sm0keyJ0e Posts: 730 Critical Contributor
    IMHO, Bishop and Cap have different issues with them. More on this in a moment...

    I am also not a fan of nerfs. I've been very clear on this in the past. I have only ever asked for nerfs now to two characters: 5* Gambit and now 4* Bishop. I don't blame the devs for trying out new ideas with characters and perhaps missing broken synergy that the players are quick to exploit. However, I do blame them for their track record with "balancing" them once identified (read: ruining them completely) and for the snail's pace at which they react to toons that are clearly broken from the get-go. Every other style of game like this releases balances on a regular basis, some times more than 3-4 times for the same character. This is normal and expected behavior to make sure your game is operating smoothly and without ridiculously OP characters ruining the game.

    Back to Bishop and Cap--Bishop is clearly broken in a vacuum. It was stated ad nauseam in the Nerf Bishop thread. A 5* player cannot make a match against him without getting stunned the next turn (best case scenario) or having their entire team stun-locked with one bad roll of RNG (worst case scenario). This is broken. There are no counters and there is no strategy. For people that have played the game for a while, "earning" those 5* toons, they cannot use them against this character. It's just dumb. Your best option is to skip.

    Cap is mainly broken when you can pick 3 toons, which isn't often outside of Sim. You also really need a well-covered 5* HE for this to work. I do not believe he is broken in a vacuum, and once his buff goes away, I think you'll  see him less. On his own, he's not that bad. I do not believe (at this time) he needs a nerf.
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2019
    They just need to release a hard counter that is a 5 to bishop.

    Someone that stuns a character that stuns the character in front for 3 turns when they have 8 or more blue passively. (Happens instantly) if they have 10 or more stuns for 2  turns and drains all blue..


    Problem solved,


  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    thedarkphoenix said:
    They just need to release a hard counter that is a 5 to bishop.

    Someone that stuns a character that stuns the character in front for 3 turns when they have 8 or more blue passively. (Happens instantly) if they have 10 or more stuns for 2  turns and drains all blue..


    Problem solved,


    The problem with a hard counter is that it can destroy all of the balance and throw everything out of whack. 

    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    IMHO, Bishop and Cap have different issues with them. More on this in a moment...

    I am also not a fan of nerfs. I've been very clear on this in the past. I have only ever asked for nerfs now to two characters: 5* Gambit and now 4* Bishop. I don't blame the devs for trying out new ideas with characters and perhaps missing broken synergy that the players are quick to exploit. However, I do blame them for their track record with "balancing" them once identified (read: ruining them completely) and for the snail's pace at which they react to toons that are clearly broken from the get-go. Every other style of game like this releases balances on a regular basis, some times more than 3-4 times for the same character. This is normal and expected behavior to make sure your game is operating smoothly and without ridiculously OP characters ruining the game.

    Back to Bishop and Cap--Bishop is clearly broken in a vacuum. It was stated ad nauseam in the Nerf Bishop thread. A 5* player cannot make a match against him without getting stunned the next turn (best case scenario) or having their entire team stun-locked with one bad roll of RNG (worst case scenario). This is broken. There are no counters and there is no strategy. For people that have played the game for a while, "earning" those 5* toons, they cannot use them against this character. It's just dumb. Your best option is to skip.

    Cap is mainly broken when you can pick 3 toons, which isn't often outside of Sim. You also really need a well-covered 5* HE for this to work. I do not believe he is broken in a vacuum, and once his buff goes away, I think you'll  see him less. On his own, he's not that bad. I do not believe (at this time) he needs a nerf.
    I agree with you on this.  I have been the same with nerfs, do not like them, except with Gambit (who should have never been released like he was) and Bishop.  Hammer is just insane when I went against him in a pick 3 pvp or SIM event.  Everybody was stunned and that was it.   
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2019
    fight4thedream said:
    There are counters to Bishop and Cap in the 5* tier, specifically Silver Surfer and Black Panther. Obviously a few more characters that had stronger anti-stun mechanics would be very much appreciated but it's not like they don't exist. The problem as I see it is that a lot of players choose to not think outside of the box when dealing with these teams because they believe that 5* teams should automatically trump everything else.  If you know that 5* match damage is going to trigger their passive, then the solution is to simply make sure your whole team doesn't consist of 5*s.  There are a plethora of characters at your disposal, I am sure you can find a combination that works for you against such teams. You just have to let go of the idea that you need to always be fielding 5*s to win. 

    Oh yeah, let me put up a team of 4*'s (in 5* MMR) while everyone is trying to avoid Bishop/Cap, surely my score won't plummet down by 500 pts in a matter of 30 minutes.

    That is not a solution for people in the 5* MMR trying to climb in PVP or shield SIM and you know this already.
  • Lopan15
    Lopan15 Posts: 225 Tile Toppler
    I've tried multiple times with different teams people have suggested.  I'm 0 for about 15 now.  The worse part being that if I get a nice big cascade on my first turn (which should be a big advantage to me), it just makes my defeat go much faster.  That alone makes this extremely broken.
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    My Bishop must be broken. I never wind up with 30 AP. 
     
    Either way Captain Worthy will have 30 blue and 30 red when paired with HE. HE is deadly with that AP as well. I think he is the bigger issue personally.

    Although, I might just be particularly annoyed at the moment because the Starlord PVP is the worst. Not sure what it is, but it has never been less fun than the start of this new season.
  • JRYUART
    JRYUART Posts: 95 Match Maker
    Maybe the devs are introducing specialized characters (with enough  time to obtain and level) that will come in really handy in the future if they happen to introduce a new mode that is puzzle-based with special conditions needed to compete them.

    Bishop and WCap would come in mighty handy if they go the angry birds route and establish a node condition as being 4 turns or less to win.

    @fight4thedream makes a good point, only considering one's own current status quo against all the options that are given to us is a bit myopic.  
  • grunth13
    grunth13 Posts: 608 Critical Contributor
    fight4thedream said:
    There are counters to Bishop and Cap in the 5* tier, specifically Silver Surfer and Black Panther. Obviously a few more characters that had stronger anti-stun mechanics would be very much appreciated but it's not like they don't exist. The problem as I see it is that a lot of players choose to not think outside of the box when dealing with these teams because they believe that 5* teams should automatically trump everything else.  If you know that 5* match damage is going to trigger their passive, then the solution is to simply make sure your whole team doesn't consist of 5*s.  There are a plethora of characters at your disposal, I am sure you can find a combination that works for you against such teams. You just have to let go of the idea that you need to always be fielding 5*s to win. 

    Which brings me to the flip side of @grunth13 problem: If you know your non-550 teams won't show up as your defensive team, that should give you even greater freedom to utilize non 5* characters against such teams since people won't be able to queue your Bishop or Worthy Cap specific counter team. There are both advantages and disadvantages to your situation. 

    I am a big advocate for a rock-papers-scissors-lizard-spock meta but under such a meta no team is safe. There are strengths and vulnerabilities and players would have to think more strategically before engaging an opponent team and it increases the likelihood you will get hit by someone who has a good counter team. It also means there will be times when there are teams you have a high risk of losing to. 

    The meta has shifted to a stun meta and I find both facing and fielding such teams enjoyable. I understand that I am the minority on the forum and obviously I don't think this meta should last forever but rather be a step toward a more diverse and robust PvP meta. I think if they just released a few more characters, be they 4* or 5*s, that had strong counters to these stun mechanics people would be less stressed about the issue. 

    But I think the stun mechanic definitely should have a seat at the table of a rock-papers-scissors-lizard and spock meta.

    Hello,  ex-alliance mate,  I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.  I WANT to be able to have my defensive team as my 4 star,  but cannot because I used my 550s already.   The reason for this is because my 550s are easier to hit them my he, worthy, random 4.  I would also like the protection of the cap or bishop that everyone else seems to have.   As for cupcaking, when e used to cupcake, I think we hit 5k once and routinely we're doing 2 to 4k.  With the defensive team nerf, i have scored 7k, 6k, and routinely score between 2 and 4k.  Yes,  the 3 star team can't climb on my grills like they could my cupcakes, but they don't need to now because they can just win 75 times and get the same rewards.   The dev team have themselves negated the reason for the nerf.   The placement is still going to the same guys it used to, so that won't change.   So,  in conclusion,  yes I can use more if my roster,  which is fun,  but my defensive team of 550s is getting killed by anyone with a mildly champed cap or bishop. 

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