Feedergate

tiomono

theomen said:

@Houndofshadow how do you know he 'roughly' hinted if you haven't read it? Here it is:

Ice:  No word on feeders. Not saying there are/are not, but this is only week one of the Anniversary stuff.

User: FEEDERS CONFIRMED!!!!

User 2: I think IceIX said "all remaining five stars get feeders in Week 2 of the anniversary"

Ice: Yeah. That. Which I didn't say. But I guess I did?

You can interpret this however you want. To me what matters is that people have been asking for feeders for months, the devs knew we wanted them for the anniversary and then they didn't even bother to tell us we weren't getting them.

I would interpret that as ice saying he is not confirming or denying feeders then explicitly shutting down someone's attempt at putting words in his mouth.

theomen

As I said, how you interpret it doesn't matter, although I would agree with @tiomono's reading. What matters is the dev team knew we wanted feeders for the anniversary and didn't communicate that there wouldn't be any. If they had it could have saved a lot of bad feeling.

Sm0keyJ0e

Why are they under any obligation to communicate what they are NOT going to do? I don't even see how that's a realistic expectation? Are they supposed to publish a bulleted list of things that won't be done this year for the anniversary? I can't think of a time, even when they actually did communicate, when they would say "We're not going to do X, Y and Z at this time."

That said, this anniversary pretty much sucked. Many others explained why, and I continue to think this game is quickly circling the drain as it appears maybe one graphic designer is working on it, rehashing some artwork and throwing new skins on things. Lots and lots of cash grabs focused on the poor new people trying desperately to catch up... I think the rest of this small shop has moved on to newer things that can generate money more quickly and with a longer, less diluted runway.

Many things to complain about right now, but getting bent over them not saying what they will do in the future seems silly. We have also asked for untimed PVE events for years, long before 5* feeders were even a thing... why not start a thread asking why they haven't told us that they're not going to fix them?

HoundofShadow

I'm curious, how do you determine whether something will or will not happen if you do not have conclusive evidence at that point of time? IceIX couldn't at that point of time.

The dev answered that there won't be any on Friday and the anniversary ends on next Monday. They gave a conclusive answer before the anniversary ends.

The players assumed that there would be a feeder and self-hyped it.

ursopro

I just would ask to anyone posting Discord conversations to do it in fully so people can understand the context (which will still won't make sense most of the time if you weren't there).
For that particular Ice quote, he wasn't teasing nor confirming/denying anything, we were just joking around with him after he posted the anniversary 1st week schedule and there wasn't any announcements about potential feeders.

theomen

HoundofShadow said:

I'm curious, how do you determine whether something will or will not happen if you do not have conclusive evidence at that point of time? IceIX couldn't at that point of time.

The dev answered that there won't be any on Friday and the anniversary ends on next Monday. They gave a conclusive answer before the anniversary ends.

The players assumed that there would be a feeder and self-hyped it.

Well, I would hope that a big event like the anniversary is planned out more than a week in advance. Assuming you believe the reason we were given for no feeders (there was no obvious choice) then evidence has nothing to do with anything. Evidence of what? If that really was the reason, why couldn't Ice say a week into the anniversary?

The players were told there might be a feeder and feeders are for special occasions. We also asked repeatedly for them in advance so I can see why people are disappointed.

@Sm0keyJ0e the devs aren't obliged to communicate at all. However, since this was something they knew people wanted and they made it seem like it might happen, a little communication may have been a good idea when they decided against it.

theomen

ursopro said:

I just would ask to anyone posting Discord conversations to do it in fully so people can understand the context (which will still won't make sense most of the time if you weren't there).
For that particular Ice quote, he wasn't teasing nor confirming/denying anything, we were just joking around with him after he posted the anniversary 1st week schedule and there wasn't any announcements about potential feeders.

Fair enough Ursopro. I was just trying to illustrate that the devs knew we wanted feeders for the anniversary.

Borstock

To me, feeders are a luxury. Guaranteed color-specific 5* covers? That's huge. I'm happy when we get them, but I always felt it was very generous and weird it wasn't setup to be the last 3 rewards to max-champ status to encourage more spending. 

ursopro

theomen said:

Fair enough Ursopro. I was just trying to illustrate that the devs knew we wanted feeders for the anniversary.

No problem, it really is all the same in the other side of the coin, like some devs apologists are saying that maybe Anthony was jesting around with the no obvious feeder response, he was not.

I asked him a serious question and I want to believe he gave me a serious answer.

theomen

ursopro said:

theomen said:

Fair enough Ursopro. I was just trying to illustrate that the devs knew we wanted feeders for the anniversary.

No problem, it really is all the same in the other side of the coin, like some devs apologists are saying that maybe Anthony was jesting around with the no obvious feeder response, he was not.

I asked him a serious question and I want to believe he gave me a serious answer.

It seems like he did. What did you make of his answer? It didn't make much sense to me.

Daredevil217

First of all, props to the OP for starting this thread as I do believe this topic does deserve its own thread. 

To the developer apologists, please understand that those of us upset at them saying what they won’t do, understand there’s a much larger context here. 

1. The developers have said time and again that they are aware dilution is a problem and they are looking into solutions to help. 

2. For the 5* tier, getting specific  Classic characters covered is a fool’s errand as there just aren’t many methods to get covers. A single cover at the cost of ten pulls once a year? Bonus Hero that may come twice a year? CP store (these have lessened by the way) that you have to make sure you hoard for as they only last a few days? What are the odds for pulling a specific 5 from classics anyway?

3. Feeders were introduced to great fanfare to help with dilution, and sure they weren’t the end all/ be all solution, but provided an additional method to get some covers. They were rolled out pretty regularly and definitely helped a lot of players finish characters they otherwise wouldn’t have. I know that’s true for me. 

4. Feeders slowed way down. Almost grinding to a halt. The natives began getting restless and asking “what happened to feeders??” I mean dilution is an issue that we ALL (players and developers alike) have stated is an issue, this feels like a step backwards. It seems similar to when the latest 12 4*s ended. In both cases an obvious step back with nothing but silence. 

5. Finally we get communication. We feel we initially rolled them out too fast. We want to make feeders feel more “special”. As such, we want to tie them to special events and celebrations. 

6. 80th Anniversary passes and we get nothing. Starts begging the question “what is considered a special event in their eyes?”. Given anniversary is the biggest event of the year in MPQ land, and last anniversary saw us get a feeder, it is completely reasonable to think we’d get one this year. Reasonable to think anniversary is “special enough” to get one. This was the expectation THEY set.  Feeders for special events.  We start to get excited. We’re talking about them more and more. They are absolutely aware of it. 

Sm0keyJ0e said:

Many things to complain about right now, but getting bent over them not saying what they will do in the future seems silly. We have also asked for untimed PVE events for years, long before 5* feeders were even a thing... why not start a thread asking why they haven't told us that they're not going to fix them?

Because they didn’t tell us we’d get untimed PVE events during special celebrations only and then not give us an untimed event during anniversary. If they did, then threads about “why weren’t we informed there would be no untimed event!?” would be warranted (though ironically we did get one with “Best in Class”). Asking for developers to communicate what they won’t do, after commenting on what they would (and don’t deliver) is completely justified imo. 

7. The worst part is, Feedergate aside, this whole anniversary feels like they really don’t consider it a special event. People are disappointed, disheartened, and enraged on any platform you venture into. This is the most phoned in celebration yet, and the fact that they couldn’t be bothered to update champion rewards at all solidifies the message that this anniversary isn’t a special event.  There’s at least a consistent message there, but not the one I think they meant to send. 

8. And finally we get some communication. “There wasn’t an ‘obvious’ feeder, so no one was chosen”. Looking at all of the context leading up to this reply, and you can see why folks are angry. Many characters have 4* that could logically feed them. A love interest (Gambit-Rogue), partner (Cable-Deadpool), or the same freaking person (Ice-Ice). But plenty of times they’ve done feeders with no association at all, so it has not stopped them in the past! And if by “obvious” they mean no one to tie to anniversary itself, how about the fact that Gambit/Rogue and Cable/Domino were characters released the past two anniversaries!?? Feeding them and saying “thanks for spending another anniversary with us!”- what a great way to say thank you to the fans. Since the developers couldn’t make a decision and instead decided on no one, why not have the fans vote on who they’d like to see get champion reward updates!? What a fun way to involve your fan base and really make the event feel special. Instead we got “no one” because there was no “obvious choice”. Pitchforks absolutely warranted in this case. The outrage is justified and they have only themselves to blame. 

ursopro

theomen said:

It seems like he did. What did you make of his answer? It didn't make much sense to me.

Like most of the critical crowd (I'm a Steam player, the unwanted child of the MPQ universe) it made no sense to me considering some of the weird choices that we have had in the past.

I can see how some may try to spin that around in the context of "obvious anniversary choices" or something related to any of the events they ran around, it still doesn't work for me, but to each their own.

Now, I been around the Discord channel long enough to know how the devs react to such questions, even if they're the ones asking for feedback, so I knew that was the end of the conversation after such response.

Just for the record, he also said he's bummed that the anniversary didn't had the reaction they were expecting and will think on some ways to gather some constructive feedback and pass it on to the team.

theomen

@Daredevil217 you said it all! I completely agree.

Vins2

I'm reading that segment of the discord chat, and Anthony also asked for further clarification regarding one complaint being the anniversary's "communication not being the greatest."  I interpret Anthony's response as him thinking communication has been satisfactory/adequate, so when the board almost unanimously agrees there's been a drop in communication, there's a disconnect on multiple levels.

I get it, though.  Not announcing ANY news on feeders, is better than announcing zero feeders, to keep speculation high.  

Sm0keyJ0e

Sm0keyJ0e said:

Many things to complain about right now, but getting bent over them not saying what they will do in the future seems silly. We have also asked for untimed PVE events for years, long before 5* feeders were even a thing... why not start a thread asking why they haven't told us that they're not going to fix them?

Because they didn’t tell us we’d get untimed PVE events during special celebrations only and then not give us an untimed event during anniversary. If they did, then threads about “why weren’t we informed there would be no untimed event!?” would be warranted (though ironically we did get one with “Best in Class”). Asking for developers to communicate what they won’t do, after commenting on what they would (and don’t deliver) is completely justified imo. 

Expecting any new and/or better communication from these guys is hope better spent elsewhere. Red from Shawshank said it best: "Hope is a dangerous thing. Drive a man insane."

I'll have to concede I missed where they explained their 5* feeders rationale. Can you please link me the official quote from the forum where they said 5* feeders would be coming with special events? I most certainly missed that.

jp1

Sm0keyJ0e said:

Sm0keyJ0e said:

Many things to complain about right now, but getting bent over them not saying what they will do in the future seems silly. We have also asked for untimed PVE events for years, long before 5* feeders were even a thing... why not start a thread asking why they haven't told us that they're not going to fix them?

Because they didn’t tell us we’d get untimed PVE events during special celebrations only and then not give us an untimed event during anniversary. If they did, then threads about “why weren’t we informed there would be no untimed event!?” would be warranted (though ironically we did get one with “Best in Class”). Asking for developers to communicate what they won’t do, after commenting on what they would (and don’t deliver) is completely justified imo. 

Expecting any new and/or better communication from these guys is hope better spent elsewhere. Red from Shawshank said it best: "Hope is a dangerous thing. Drive a man insane."

I'll have to concede I missed where they explained their 5* feeders rationale. Can you please link me the official quote from the forum where they said 5* feeders would be coming with special events? I most certainly missed that.

I’m fairly sure that was addressed on the podcast interview. 

Sm0keyJ0e

jp1 said:

Sm0keyJ0e said:

Sm0keyJ0e said:

Many things to complain about right now, but getting bent over them not saying what they will do in the future seems silly. We have also asked for untimed PVE events for years, long before 5* feeders were even a thing... why not start a thread asking why they haven't told us that they're not going to fix them?

Because they didn’t tell us we’d get untimed PVE events during special celebrations only and then not give us an untimed event during anniversary. If they did, then threads about “why weren’t we informed there would be no untimed event!?” would be warranted (though ironically we did get one with “Best in Class”). Asking for developers to communicate what they won’t do, after commenting on what they would (and don’t deliver) is completely justified imo. 

Expecting any new and/or better communication from these guys is hope better spent elsewhere. Red from Shawshank said it best: "Hope is a dangerous thing. Drive a man insane."

I'll have to concede I missed where they explained their 5* feeders rationale. Can you please link me the official quote from the forum where they said 5* feeders would be coming with special events? I most certainly missed that.

I’m fairly sure that was addressed on the podcast interview. 

Thank you, I don't listen to those. Are they considered official announcements/information? Apologies for being unfamiliar with them. I thought the forums were "official" and everything else, like Discord convos, were just devs being devs and chatting about the game or doughnuts or whatever.

jp1

Sm0keyJ0e said:

jp1 said:

Sm0keyJ0e said:

Sm0keyJ0e said:

Many things to complain about right now, but getting bent over them not saying what they will do in the future seems silly. We have also asked for untimed PVE events for years, long before 5* feeders were even a thing... why not start a thread asking why they haven't told us that they're not going to fix them?

Because they didn’t tell us we’d get untimed PVE events during special celebrations only and then not give us an untimed event during anniversary. If they did, then threads about “why weren’t we informed there would be no untimed event!?” would be warranted (though ironically we did get one with “Best in Class”). Asking for developers to communicate what they won’t do, after commenting on what they would (and don’t deliver) is completely justified imo. 

Expecting any new and/or better communication from these guys is hope better spent elsewhere. Red from Shawshank said it best: "Hope is a dangerous thing. Drive a man insane."

I'll have to concede I missed where they explained their 5* feeders rationale. Can you please link me the official quote from the forum where they said 5* feeders would be coming with special events? I most certainly missed that.

I’m fairly sure that was addressed on the podcast interview. 

Thank you, I don't listen to those. Are they considered official announcements/information? Apologies for being unfamiliar with them. I thought the forums were "official" and everything else, like Discord convos, were just devs being devs and chatting about the game or doughnuts or whatever.

I don’t know to be honest. I remember there being a list of “off limit” topics, so I assume it was somewhat official.

Tony_Foot

I often feel let down by lack of communication but then I remind myself of all the other games I play where because I didn't seek out a forum I play from the breaking news tab when launching the game. I guess that's how 95% of the user base for this game get their info too.

I'm guessing most people that play this game have no Idea what's coming until it hits the game. So why do we forum users think we deserve to be told what's not coming ahead of time?

Also although free stuff is better than no stuff, perhaps the poll results suggest what I've thought for so long, feeders impact such a small amount of people they didn't care to vote for it. Perhaps they are actually listening to their players.

DyingLegend

I thought it would be cool to select the feeder you'd want when you champion a character out of a limited selection.

For instance;

Right now 2* magneto only feeds 3* magneto. Lets say you champion another copy of 2* mags and the game gives you a choice of , 3* mags, Beast or psylocke. That way if your 3* magneto is at 266, you can opt to work on another character, cause we all know how fast we can cycle through two stars.

Now if you apply that to the 3*tier, you can give each character a choice of two feeders ( i think there is 47 3*s and 90 4*s,  you get the point) then technically everyone in the 3* field has a feeder option for 4*s and it gives you more incentive to turn and burn 3* to build up other 4 stars.

Just a thought...