**** Juggernaut (Fear Itself) ****

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  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 2,341 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    His PvP is such a breeze for those with GotG & R4G. Every match is an easy matchup against any team except Gritty and Bishop team. Healthpack usage is probably 1 every 15 to 20 match, apart from deadly cascades.

    But I don't see myself using him often because it's not very fun.
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 3,633 Chairperson of the Boards
    3/5/5


    But I don't see myself using him often because it's not very fun.
    I'm glad to see I'm not the only one bored by him.....
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 3,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    himatako said:

    Unless this is a bug, this means his Collateral AOE is a power damage. I guess his power is coded in a way that it ignores Okoye's black passive.
    yeah, this one is looking like a specific and deliberate exclusion of Wakanda Forever. I wish they'd put text in the power descriptions to that effect, like on 4* ghost rider's move where it gets cheaper the more attack tiles are on the board but can't be reduced below 6AP or whatever the number is. This damage is an arbitrary fixed number, being distributed to the entire team as a second batch of damage by a passive ability Why is this not gaining the benefit of WF?
  • darkwatcherDEZdarkwatcherDEZ Posts: 83 Match Maker
    5/5/3
    Collateral against strike tiles with Hammer Time Juggs is frightening
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 3,606 Chairperson of the Boards
    For a loaner he has been incredibly useful. I can see Juggs being a pain down the line.
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 2,341 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    Supports that specifically add extra power damage don't affect him as well. Even Taskmaster's Perk 1 where it states that "The supported character deals an extra X damage to Heroes" doesn't affect his AoE as well.



  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 3,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    So Juggernaut on climb with Gritty, then leave in Bishop for your defense team is the explicit point of this character? lol
  • KGBKGB Posts: 881 Critical Contributor
    edited August 2019
    5/5/3
    Well I just took him out for a spin with Gamora/Grocket (both L290 plus).

    Even the loaner is incredible with that team because he tanks Red, Green, Purple and TUs so you get the extra damage on 4 of 7 colors. I was ripping through L300 and under teams (boosted 3's and non-boosted 4's) in 4-5 moves because you can easily do an extra 2-4K damage a turn to the back characters if you get double matches/cascades etc and prioritize Juggs colors.

    I ended up at 933 for my 4* cover in 25 matches without needing to shield and only switching to boosted Mockingbird/Yondu for a few matches at the end against dual boosted 4 teams (not even sure I needed to do that to be honest but I didn't want to expend any health packs healing).

    He's going to be a beast with Gamora/Grocket and when you fight that team on defense you better be prepared to eat a bunch of his AOE's at 1-2K thanks to the strike tiles. I left Gamora/Grocket out on defense to see how they fare (I got 3 defensive wins vs 4* teams and 2 losses to champed 5* Kitty teams during my climb)

    KGB
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 3,633 Chairperson of the Boards
    3/5/5
    I put my Rank 5 Blackbird on Juggs.....the rank 4 effect is supposed to make powers cause 1040 more damage to enemies.

    Jugg's Collateral isn't benefiting at all.
  • himatakohimatako Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker
    bluewolf said:
    I put my Rank 5 Blackbird on Juggs.....the rank 4 effect is supposed to make powers cause 1040 more damage to enemies.

    Jugg's Collateral isn't benefiting at all.
    His green passive seems to ignore any non-strike tile friendly effect that increase power damage. So supports and powers like Okoye's Wakanda Forever that specifically increases power damage won't work. It's like the reverse of Sabretooth's red which ignores friendly strike tiles, but can be boosted by supports or Okoye's power. 


    Fighting Grittynaut is really unpleasant. If you start with a bad board then you're pretty much done. I wish there was a character that reduces a strike tile's strength like Black Suit Spiderman but in a 4* land. I don't think I can fully cover him anytime soon.
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 3,633 Chairperson of the Boards
    3/5/5
    himatako said:
    bluewolf said:
    I put my Rank 5 Blackbird on Juggs.....the rank 4 effect is supposed to make powers cause 1040 more damage to enemies.

    Jugg's Collateral isn't benefiting at all.
    His green passive seems to ignore any non-strike tile friendly effect that increase power damage. So supports and powers like Okoye's Wakanda Forever that specifically increases power damage won't work. It's like the reverse of Sabretooth's red which ignores friendly strike tiles, but can be boosted by supports or Okoye's power. 


    Fighting Grittynaut is really unpleasant. If you start with a bad board then you're pretty much done. I wish there was a character that reduces a strike tile's strength like Black Suit Spiderman but in a 4* land. I don't think I can fully cover him anytime soon.
    Unless you somehow decided to bonus BSSM (probably not a good choice since he's only a defensive character), you'll likely never finish him.

    It takes approx 220 Classic pulls to get a cover for all the 5's, assuming you are lucky with distribution.  He MIGHT show up in a store which also includes a meta character making it worth hoarding for that happenstance.  But obviously dilution keeps increasing too.

    Otherwise if you were going to try to max Iron Spider via bonus, you'd probably need to pull about 1500 Legendary tokens to get him to 360, depending on where yours currently is.

    Is it worth focusing that much effort on him?  Probably not.
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 3,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    himatako said:
     I wish there was a character that reduces a strike tile's strength like Black Suit Spiderman but in a 4* land. I don't think I can fully cover him anytime soon.
    If Kraven worked more effectively you could try him. He can pace a similarly leveled Nico, but he is hopelessly outmatched by Kitty if she's even partially built.

    I think Rogue (and now juggernaut I guess) are going to be the nearest option you have to a BSSM at the 4* tier of play. And really, I think Th4nos is quite effective, he just quietly came out and was forgotten it seems like. I'm not seeing him anywhere, but his strike conversion to green really does help. If you set his blue to 5, it remains effective even if Kitty has another X-person on the team (both Bishop and Juggs count for this purpose). Pairing him with Rogue makes her far more likely to jump in front by flooding the board with green. I imagine a Main Event Hulk could help in the center by (ideally) getting a few off the board on turn 1 before Th4nos can go to work. Both Main Event and Rogue have truly spectacular nukes on different colors, and of course th4nos has that 50% board wipe that does mega damage too, so they should really be able to play up. That team has pretty good color coverage as well. My 2/1/4 Th4nos isn't ready for prime time though, so it's still a hypothetical team for me.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 3,606 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm pretty convinced that 4* Juggs must be the best loaner I have ever used in PvP. That might not translate into anything more when he is champed but this loaner is as good as having another unboosted champed 4* in your team. Mad.
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 2,341 Chairperson of the Boards
    I believe Quake might help a little in the beginning? Or just let Bishop soak up the damage and stun him. Dazzler and Valkyrie might help too.
  • KGBKGB Posts: 881 Critical Contributor
    5/5/3
    himatako said:
     I wish there was a character that reduces a strike tile's strength like Black Suit Spiderman but in a 4* land. I don't think I can fully cover him anytime soon.
    If Kraven worked more effectively you could try him. He can pace a similarly leveled Nico, but he is hopelessly outmatched by Kitty if she's even partially built.


    Why not push hard to fully cover 4* Juggs. He reduces Match damage by 90%. All of Grittys damage is Match damage so even with 4K strike tiles they are only going to be 400 to Juggs who will have 20K health at L270.

    In fact, the best team might be Juggs + 2 other characters (sabretooth should be good with Juggs tanking for him on 2 colors) who have the same primary colors so that he's ALWAYS taking everything or at least 5 of 7 colors. Since he essentially uses none of the AP the other 2 can use it (unless you want to fire his Blue).

    KGB
  • TPF AlexisTPF Alexis Posts: 3,474 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:
    I'm pretty convinced that 4* Juggs must be the best loaner I have ever used in PvP. That might not translate into anything more when he is champed but this loaner is as good as having another unboosted champed 4* in your team. Mad.
    Chavez is the only other one I can think of that compares. Her intro PvP was awesome.
    KGB said:
    himatako said:
     I wish there was a character that reduces a strike tile's strength like Black Suit Spiderman but in a 4* land. I don't think I can fully cover him anytime soon.
    If Kraven worked more effectively you could try him. He can pace a similarly leveled Nico, but he is hopelessly outmatched by Kitty if she's even partially built.


    Why not push hard to fully cover 4* Juggs. He reduces Match damage by 90%. All of Grittys damage is Match damage so even with 4K strike tiles they are only going to be 400 to Juggs who will have 20K health at L270.

    In fact, the best team might be Juggs + 2 other characters (sabretooth should be good with Juggs tanking for him on 2 colors) who have the same primary colors so that he's ALWAYS taking everything or at least 5 of 7 colors. Since he essentially uses none of the AP the other 2 can use it (unless you want to fire his Blue).

    KGB
    Does his damage reduction apply to the extra from the Strikes as well, or just the damage from the Match itself. Given that he has enough weird interactions with things that boost damage anyhow...
  • KGBKGB Posts: 881 Critical Contributor
    edited August 2019
    5/5/3

    KGB said:

    Why not push hard to fully cover 4* Juggs. He reduces Match damage by 90%. All of Grittys damage is Match damage so even with 4K strike tiles they are only going to be 400 to Juggs who will have 20K health at L270.

    In fact, the best team might be Juggs + 2 other characters (sabretooth should be good with Juggs tanking for him on 2 colors) who have the same primary colors so that he's ALWAYS taking everything or at least 5 of 7 colors. Since he essentially uses none of the AP the other 2 can use it (unless you want to fire his Blue).

    KGB
    Does his damage reduction apply to the extra from the Strikes as well, or just the damage from the Match itself. Given that he has enough weird interactions with things that boost damage anyhow...

    I don't know as I didn't have to fight against any Grocket teams to hit 900 (25 battles). Hopefully someone can chime in on the answer to that but I hope that it would since it would make sense that all damage is totaled before any reductions are done.

    OK,  he's officially a top 10 character for me now in 4* land and top 5 for PvE. I swapped him out for Medusa in my PvE team (Grocket/Gamora/Juggs) in the Meet Rocket and Groot event. I put an L150 Ebony Maw support on him for the +X Black damage so was tanking everything but Blue and I just went through the PvE at record pace.

    On the trivial nodes, 1 match downs all 3 enemies but unlike using Thanos, I don't eat any damage. So that's a time and health saver.
    On all the non-trivial nodes he was 1 shoting Hood until the 4th clear (double damage dipping on his matches). Pretty much 4-5 matches and the enemy team is wiped. Even the Juggs/Muscle/Muscle node that usually requires effort (stun plus clear goon CD's) due to the sheer hit points all 3 have went down without me even needing to stun anyone / fire a power because after Juggs is dead on turn 4 or 5 the Muscles well under 1/2 health so they just require another match or 2 to kill.

    By the time I was finished the 6 non-essential nodes I had taken <200 damage total to Grocket/Gamora since he tanked everything and was getting the +1000 health boost from the Ebony Maw support.

    This is with a L111 Juggs (1/2/2) and my Grocket/Gamora in the L290 range on CL7. I can't want to get him champed when he can do even more damage and I can use him in every PvE.

    KGB
  • himatakohimatako Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker
    Does his damage reduction apply to the extra from the Strikes as well, or just the damage from the Match itself. Given that he has enough weird interactions with things that boost damage anyhow...
    The match damage reduction seems to be applied after the strike tiles bonus is added to the total match damage, rounding up. I tested in Shield Training and Ghost made a match of 3 purple with 378 strike tiles value. She's supposed to deal 1398 damage (340 x 3 + 378), but Juggernaut took 140 damage instead.

  • TPF AlexisTPF Alexis Posts: 3,474 Chairperson of the Boards
    himatako said:
    Does his damage reduction apply to the extra from the Strikes as well, or just the damage from the Match itself. Given that he has enough weird interactions with things that boost damage anyhow...
    The match damage reduction seems to be applied after the strike tiles bonus is added to the total match damage, rounding up. I tested in Shield Training and Ghost made a match of 3 purple with 378 strike tiles value. She's supposed to deal 1398 damage (340 x 3 + 378), but Juggernaut took 140 damage instead.

    I thought that was how it worked, but he has enough weirdness going on that I really wasn't sure. Thanks for checking!
  • KGBKGB Posts: 881 Critical Contributor
    edited August 2019
    5/5/3
    himatako said:
    Does his damage reduction apply to the extra from the Strikes as well, or just the damage from the Match itself. Given that he has enough weird interactions with things that boost damage anyhow...
    The match damage reduction seems to be applied after the strike tiles bonus is added to the total match damage, rounding up. I tested in Shield Training and Ghost made a match of 3 purple with 378 strike tiles value. She's supposed to deal 1398 damage (340 x 3 + 378), but Juggernaut took 140 damage instead.

    Thanks for that info.

    Right now everyone is more or less having fun with the Juggs PvP. But by the time it's run again (or on weeks when he is boosted) he is going to be an absolute monster. When boosted to 370 (from a 270 champ level where he will be for most players) he's going to have 40+K health with 90% match damage immunity, tank virtually every color (esp on non-5* teams) and his Green will do around 700 AOE damage per match. Without any strikes. So by turn 6-7 if he makes 10 matches (a couple mini cascades) he's going to melt 7K off your whole team (plus another couple of K of match damage) and if he's paired with Grocket it's only going to be that much worse.

    The only way to stop him will be Bishop who everyone hates :)

    KGB
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