**** Juggernaut (Fear Itself) ****

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  • PiMacleodPiMacleod Posts: 914 Critical Contributor
    So... I guess I'm the only one okay with the hammer costing 11...

    People keep comparing the damage, when that isn't the point.  Not even joking either.

    It's selecting a column.  Add in the random Cascades the side tile destruction causes too.  But mainly selecting that column lets you get rid of something pesky that you couldn't reach before.  A random rocket made strike, or whatever.... The point is, most chosen tile/row/column/etc destruction has a higher cost. 

    The random ones, like 1* Juggs green, are cheap.  I think everyone can agree to that.  If you wanna choose what gets destroyed, you gotta pay more.

    I'm thinking people that want this power to do more damage also have a higher roster where 4* Juggs really isn't gonna change their play style.  Meanwhile, people going from 3 to 4, or just coasting along in 4* land, can have fun teaming him up with other like-minded 4*s.  That Shield Training node showed me how much fun he could be on the right team.

    For the record, I'm a gritty player.  I'll probably not end up using him if/when I champ him.  And I'd probably have his hammer at 3.  I think there's enough board shake in that alone.  2 more levels of tile destruction doesn't outweigh what those passives can do, imo.
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,659 Chairperson of the Boards
    RickOShay said:
    Wow that match damage reduction is going to make him relevant against five star teams, as long as you can get him to tank a color or three.

    So one of the big questions remains, will Okoye add to his passive AOE damage?
    Juggernaut's power Collateral Damage will not activate Okoye's power Wakanda Forever as it is associated with making a match.
    I'm going to make a new thread about Wakanda Forever and it's interactions. It feels wildly inconsistent which powers/characters it works with versus not. 
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,659 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    PiMacleod said:
    So... I guess I'm the only one okay with the hammer costing 11...

    People keep comparing the damage, when that isn't the point.  Not even joking either.

    Not to be argumentative, but this power isn't unique, and there are several characters at the 4* tier doing similar things in a way more useful way.

    Wiccan's green, Chain Lightning, costs 12 Green AP, does 9,158 damage, destroys a chosen column, and then if there is an enemy special in that column it destroys a second column until it stops finding columns with enemy specials.

    'Sploits can target a chosen column, and do 5k+ damage for 9 purple.

    3/5 Star Lord doesn't get to pick the column, but A Little Bit of Both for 12 green does more damage (even the 3*) and breaks up to 3 columns. He can self accelerate by adding green charge tiles to the board.

    Ragnarok's Godlike Power is similar (with the drawback of team damage) to Star Lords for 14 green, but he can self accelerate quite well to get there (should you for some reason want to)

    So I think the damage component should be part of the evaluation for sure.
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 4,910 Chairperson of the Boards
    3/5/5
    The fact that Jugg's blue costs 11 isn't bothering me a lot.  He's got passive match dmg reduction, match dmg boost and AOE when he makes a match.

    And he gets a targeted column destruction ability.  It was useful vs Ghost today.....  I assume the (relatively) high cost is a balance decision, but it's not all that expensive given all the stuff he does for free.
  • TPF AlexisTPF Alexis Posts: 3,803 Chairperson of the Boards
    PiMacleod said:
    So... I guess I'm the only one okay with the hammer costing 11...

    People keep comparing the damage, when that isn't the point.  Not even joking either.

    Not to be argumentative, but this power isn't unique, and there are several characters at the 4* tier doing similar things in a way more useful way.

    Wiccan's green, Chain Lightning, costs 12 Green AP, does 9,158 damage, destroys a chosen column, and then if there is an enemy special in that column it destroys a second column until it stops finding columns with enemy specials.

    'Sploits can target a chosen column, and do 5k+ damage for 9 purple.

    3/5 Star Lord doesn't get to pick the column, but A Little Bit of Both for 12 green does more damage (even the 3*) and breaks up to 3 columns. He can self accelerate by adding green charge tiles to the board.

    Ragnarok's Godlike Power is similar (with the drawback of team damage) to Star Lords for 14 green, but he can self accelerate quite well to get there (should you for some reason want to)

    So I think the damage component should be part of the evaluation for sure.
    Star Lord also leaves Friendly Special tiles in those columns alone, which can be a really big deal some times.
  • RickOShayRickOShay Posts: 443 Mover and Shaker
    RickOShay said:
    Wow that match damage reduction is going to make him relevant against five star teams, as long as you can get him to tank a color or three.

    So one of the big questions remains, will Okoye add to his passive AOE damage?
    Juggernaut's power Collateral Damage will not activate Okoye's power Wakanda Forever as it is associated with making a match.
    Thank you for the answer. I'm sure many were hoping, but we shouldn't forget that Juggs passive Will still stack nicely with strike tiles. 

    A lot of interesting team combo's exist. Can't wait to see how he plays with Chavez. The passive match damage boost will make him tank all colors but yellow. Bring a 3rd that creates strike tiles and this will be another damage machine.
  • purplemurpurplemur Posts: 376 Mover and Shaker
    edited August 2019
    He seems decent....
    can't avoid the comparisons with Ghost. Both villains red/blue, both 300% match dam. he gets dam mitigation but so does ghost via invisibility, she has a true heal though and a self ramp. If I had to encourage a transitioner I would nudge Ghost over juggs. 

    The team not extra damage thing seems like a dev cheat; it's pretty obvs that the devs just realized too late that Okoye would break that.  When it says he deals x damage to the team it says HE deals that damage. This is not matchdamage. Matchdam is the trigger not the cause. In a perfect world match happens, damage resolves; then a AoE plink. It would probably work more like Shuri fortification, where the chain would resolve and then all the extra would stack and resolve. Also similar to Lockjaw where he puts the clapback all on the 

    add my snark to the list of those thinking it's pretty sloppy work not announcing any of it here. Uhmm no wi-fi at the Convention center? There was no draft announcement?  I've worked trade shows and that is not really an excuse to not do basic housekeeping. If the dev team doesn't want an official forum then don't, but realize that official brand channels are vital to modern marketing and they are just tinykittying all over their customers by not hyping the new product and offering enrichment to the experience. Support Brigby with scheduled hours and administrative support; if its such a small team then how hard is it to have him integrated? 
  • KGBKGB Posts: 1,106 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    5/5/3
    purplemur said:
    The team not extra damage thing seems like a dev cheat; it's pretty obvs that the devs just realized too late that Okoye would break that.  When it says he deals x damage to the team it says HE deals that damage. This is not matchdamage. Matchdam is the trigger not the cause. In a perfect world match happens, damage resolves; then a AoE plink. It would probably work more like Shuri fortification, where the chain would resolve and then all the extra would stack and resolve. Also similar to Lockjaw where he puts the clapback all on the 

    The problem with doing it as 2 separate damages (one Match and one Power) is that he would double dip on strike tiles against the character in front (potentially triggering Bishop twice) similar to how OBW does with her passive and really be deadly with Gritty.

    For game balance reasons they likely decided not to do that and made it all Match damage which means no Okoye WF!.  This is very likely the right decision. If too many things activate WF! then that means WF! will end up getting nerfed and no one wants that. There are better 4* partners (America, Sabretooth etc) for Okoye anyway so it's not a big deal.

    KGB
  • purplemurpurplemur Posts: 376 Mover and Shaker
    Those are good points; I agree that it's not like Okoye is lacking for partners!

    This is one that would be awesome as a 3*- we have 2 4's that do the 300% matchdam boost, tons of tile removal, he really is not very special but there isn't anything quite like him (vision, coloss similiar but different enough not to feel like a rehash) one step lower. Plus then you could have his green power double dip (like the 2* ability that is missing in the tier as well) and the broken Okoye chain wouldn't be an ish. Newer players would have more toys and the dilution could be staved for a week.

    we need to keep the game fresh for newbs. and these "new" characters in the 4* are just not moving the needle much even though they are generally considered good kits. 
  • himatakohimatako Posts: 266 Mover and Shaker
    RickOShay said:
    Wow that match damage reduction is going to make him relevant against five star teams, as long as you can get him to tank a color or three.

    So one of the big questions remains, will Okoye add to his passive AOE damage?
    Juggernaut's power Collateral Damage will not activate Okoye's power Wakanda Forever as it is associated with making a match.
    I'm going to make a new thread about Wakanda Forever and it's interactions. It feels wildly inconsistent which powers/characters it works with versus not. 
    I wonder if this could have been easily fixed by declaring in the description what kind of damage that power deal: match damage vs power damage. The damage component of Kitty's purple passive activated without the player making a match, but it is considered match damage and isn't boosted by Okoye. 
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,659 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    Does that really not benefit from WF? My Kitty is terrible at 2/2/0 so I never use her. That completely feels like a bug, there is no match damage or tile destruction associated with that power at all.

    *edit* - just read the description for Circuit Breaker - the fixed amount of damage happens when the last special tile "destroys itself." Was that done on purpose to keep it from benefiting from WF, or is it an unfortunate side effect?

    Just having 4* Juggernaut apply his match damage to the entire enemy team would have made this interaction less confusing, rather than applying an arbitrary damage number to the entire team whenever he tanks a match. From a player perspective, it doesn't feel appreciably different from C4rol's match-based retaliation, just on offense. 
  • himatakohimatako Posts: 266 Mover and Shaker
    Does that really not benefit from WF? My Kitty is terrible at 2/2/0 so I never use her. That completely feels like a bug, there is no match damage or tile destruction associated with that power at all.

    *edit* - just read the description for Circuit Breaker - the fixed amount of damage happens when the last special tile "destroys itself." Was that done on purpose to keep it from benefiting from WF, or is it an unfortunate side effect?
    I calculated this before and found that currently the game treats it like the repeater tile is destroyed by making a match of one tile, so you gain AP from that tile and deal tile damage + the damage written in Kitty's purple passive. Her damage becomes part of match damage instead of dealing power damage separately. 
  • TPF AlexisTPF Alexis Posts: 3,803 Chairperson of the Boards
    Does that really not benefit from WF? My Kitty is terrible at 2/2/0 so I never use her. That completely feels like a bug, there is no match damage or tile destruction associated with that power at all.

    *edit* - just read the description for Circuit Breaker - the fixed amount of damage happens when the last special tile "destroys itself." Was that done on purpose to keep it from benefiting from WF, or is it an unfortunate side effect?
    I found out last night as an unpleasant surprise that Circuit Breaker also won't trigger Practiced Offense in a mirror match. I needed those Attack tiles.
  • MelacMelac Posts: 28 Just Dropped In
    3/5/5
    So... I'm expecting shield PvP, and all PvE to dvolve into Grittynaut V Grittynaut real fast.
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,659 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well, it won’t be Thorkoyenaut it sounds like...
  • Zirtak_the_SecondZirtak_the_Second Posts: 28 Just Dropped In
    edited August 2019
    Melac said:
    So... I'm expecting shield PvP, and all PvE to dvolve into Grittynaut V Grittynaut real fast.
    Boosted loaner Juggs tanks green only, but boy, things escalate quickly once that green match lines up... All hail Grittynaut?

    Edit: in the first turn during Stop at Nothing pvp, AOE on a green match is 2500, using my 450 Kitty, 294 Grocket and 167 loaner Juggernaut. Turn 2: 4K AOE. Turn 3: 6k. Do I need to continue? 
  • dingodingo Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
    I just noticed this... I'm sure it's not new news, but enemy Juggs collateral triggers Kittys practiced offense...times 3. The whole board was filled with attack tiles a few moves after putting Kittys countdown tile down. Wow....
  • KGBKGB Posts: 1,106 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    5/5/3
    I wonder if Juggs power is a true AOE and whether Quake might be able to help negate some of it.

    Boosted loaner Juggs tanks green only, but boy, things escalate quickly once that green match lines up... All hail Grittynaut?

    Edit: in the first turn during Stop at Nothing pvp, AOE on a green match is 2500, using my 450 Kitty, 294 Grocket and 167 loaner Juggernaut. Turn 2: 4K AOE. Turn 3: 6k. Do I need to continue? 

    I also wonder in Grittynaut will become a force in PvE clear times with that AOE. Maybe a L4 Hydra Henchman on Juggs so he tanks Green + Black (plus has a chance each turn to fortify one of your special tiles) giving you 2 colors to use for his AOE (or you could equip a support to let him tank Blue)...

    KGB

  • himatakohimatako Posts: 266 Mover and Shaker
    dingo said:
    I just noticed this... I'm sure it's not new news, but enemy Juggs collateral triggers Kittys practiced offense...times 3. The whole board was filled with attack tiles a few moves after putting Kittys countdown tile down. Wow....
    Well, this confirms my suspicious with his passive power. I found it weird that Collateral seems to deal damage separately to the front character instead of being a part of a match damage like Mockingbird's or Kitty's purple. 

    Unless this is a bug, this means his Collateral AOE is a power damage. I guess his power is coded in a way that it ignores Okoye's black passive.

    KGB said:
    I wonder if Juggs power is a true AOE and whether Quake might be able to help negate some of it.

    I'm using Quake in Juggs' PVP right now and her yellow does reduce his AOE damage. But since the tanking character still takes match damage normally, it might be better to bring 3* Cage instead since protect tiles reduce all kind of damage and it's enough to reduce Juggs' damage to 1 in his PVP (unless the opponent's Juggs is very high level, which is unlikely at the moment)
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