*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

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Comments

  • Azoth658Azoth658 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
    D4Ni13 wrote:
    Azoth658 wrote:
    Lots of love for the new Spidey art.

    I would really love some damage based attack applied to 3* Spidey though. Maybe a tweak to all tied up so it causes damage when used on a currently stunned character? That way you need 10 blue AP to generate damage so it wouldn't turn him into an Overpowered character but at least if he is the last man standing it isn't a waiting game to die because match damage on high level enemies rarely wins matches.

    What you're saying is not bad, they could tweak it like that. But I got to say that I like the current 3* Spidey. I think it needs very minor adjustments. His role is support. He is not supposed to deal damage I think.

    Just played him today with Loki & Patch against 2 wave requirement mission from 7 round Galactus Hungers, and while my Patch died, I thought I'm gonna loose the match with almost dead Loki and half health Spidey. But before you know it his healing (only 3 covers) made the match in my favor, despite the fact that none of them had damage output. Healing, stuns, and match tile damage. And it's not the first time I won a match with him like this, so... no I don't think it's that rarely.

    Yes in the right moment at the very niche time he is excellent but he's a main character of the marvel universe (well parker used to be). He's won countless fights it would be nice to have a very small damage output added to make him more viable.

    Loki is all about board control and AP theft against a lot of opponents in PVE and PVP he's super useful.

    Spidey at the moment has powers based around two of the worst ability types in the game (protect tiles and burst healing).

    Also I was thinking about Spider Sense as I have mine kitted 3/5/5 and I realized it doesn't make sense as to how the passive is triggered. Surely it would make more sense if triggered on enemy matches and when enemy powers are triggered. Spidey senses attacks.

    In fact if they could start again with a 3* spidey then how about the below:

    yellowflag.png - Wed Shielding - 12 AP

    Spidey throws up walls of webs turning all yellow tiles into protect tiles (medium protect somewhere between his current spider sense and steve rogers sentinel of liberty)

    blueflag.png - All Tied Up - 5 AP

    Spider man webs up his opponent stopping them in their tracks stunning the enemy for x turns per web tile and creates a web tile on the board. If the target enemy is already stunned Spidey attacks the enemy dealing x amount of damage but does not generate a web tile.

    purpleflag.png - Spider Sense - Passive

    If Spider man is about to take x amount of damage (similar to deadpool, hulk etc) his spider sense triggers and Spidey leaps out of the way narrowly avoiding the attack and only receiving 10% of the damage. (Would have suggested 0 but then a five star could easily be beaten by a 3* Spidey with time)

    This keeps Spidey as a primary support but makes him play better with the other spiders and more useful in a last stand situation similar to luke cage but without the nuke abilities.
  • CrowlCrowl Posts: 1,534 Chairperson of the Boards
    Philly79 wrote:
    Its because they focus on things like this instead of fixing actual problems with the game..."Players are screaming about the iso shortage? I know, let's change Spider-Man's appearance!" "Players are sick of the 20 iso reward time after time? Let's get a team together to work on the next intro screen!"
    Nuff said...

    To be fair, a gfx guy doing this stuff would have nothing to do with the coding to change the iso rewards, why they don't have somebody making the incremental QoL changes to go with every patch is another matter.
  • D4Ni13D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    Azoth658 wrote:

    Yes in the right moment at the very niche time he is excellent but he's a main character of the marvel universe (well parker used to be). He's won countless fights it would be nice to have a very small damage output added to make him more viable.

    Loki is all about board control and AP theft against a lot of opponents in PVE and PVP he's super useful.

    Spidey at the moment has powers based around two of the worst ability types in the game (protect tiles and burst healing).

    Also I was thinking about Spider Sense as I have mine kitted 3/5/5 and I realized it doesn't make sense as to how the passive is triggered. Surely it would make more sense if triggered on enemy matches and when enemy powers are triggered. Spidey senses attacks.

    In fact if they could start again with a 3* spidey then how about the below:

    yellowflag.png - Wed Shielding - 12 AP

    Spidey throws up walls of webs turning all yellow tiles into protect tiles (medium protect somewhere between his current spider sense and steve rogers sentinel of liberty)

    blueflag.png - All Tied Up - 5 AP

    Spider man webs up his opponent stopping them in their tracks stunning the enemy for x turns per web tile and creates a web tile on the board. If the target enemy is already stunned Spidey attacks the enemy dealing x amount of damage but does not generate a web tile.

    purpleflag.png - Spider Sense - Passive

    If Spider man is about to take x amount of damage (similar to deadpool, hulk etc) his spider sense triggers and Spidey leaps out of the way narrowly avoiding the attack and only receiving 10% of the damage. (Would have suggested 0 but then a five star could easily be beaten by a 3* Spidey with time)

    This keeps Spidey as a primary support but makes him play better with the other spiders and more useful in a last stand situation similar to luke cage but without the nuke abilities.

    I think healing is better than protection tiles. A Hulk's Thunderclap or any other board shake could potentially destroy the majority of the protection. For example what you are suggesting is somewhat similar to Magneto's 9 yellow AP ability, that I rarely find useful.

    I agree with the blue, damage if the target is stunned.

    Purple could be overpowered with the suggested ability. That would mean that Spidey is immune to any damage beyond that X you are implying. So that would transform him into a tank.
    Let's say that X is 1000, and I'm sending 3500 (Human Torch's Fireball), that would mean Spidey only takes 350 damage. I don't say that I don't like it, but it's OP. Given the fact that Colossus who is a tank, has 50%, making that kind of a change to Spidey would also imply changing him in one way or another, and would make a domino effect.

    Again, I think Spidey need some tweaks. And I also feel that Peter Parker should have a better role than Miles in the game, but like in QuickSilver's example, they won't change so many aspects. And given the fact the 3* are not in the main attention here, I would expect little changes, if any. Personally, I'll be fine with only the blue tweak. Or maybe some damage given to purple (when you have at least 3 shields, deal a moderate damage to the target).
  • carrion_pigeonscarrion_pigeons Age Unconfirmed Posts: 942 Critical Contributor
    I actively do not want to see them apply a nuke to Spidey's abilities. I think it's out of flavor for him, but more importantly I would love them to prove that they can design support characters that are worthwhile, specifically using the areas of design they've given him.

    That doesn't mean I don't want him to be able to do damage. What I want is to see abilities that make it important to target him first in a match. Of all the functions a support character needs to fill, this is the most critical one. If you can save a support role for last, then the game is effectively over - you just have to sit there while he gets beaten down or else concede. But one of the things that makes OBW such an important character in her tier is that you *can't* leave her alone while you go after "threats". This is what makes a support character worthwhile and it's the space I want to see Spidey fill.

    They can definitely do this using Protect tiles and healing and stuns. They just need to make it harder to prevent those abilities from going off without targeting Spider-Man first.
  • fight4thedreamfight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,301 Chairperson of the Boards
    Azoth658 wrote:
    Yes in the right moment at the very niche time he is excellent but he's a main character of the marvel universe (well parker used to be). He's won countless fights it would be nice to have a very small damage output added to make him more viable.

    Woah there, I take it you don't keep track of comic book sales or Spidey news. Granted, there has been a push by Marvel recently to promote Spider-Gwen and Miles, but as far as your average joe and Spidey fan boy is concerned, Peter Parker is Spider-Man.

    While I understand some people appreciate the "support" role 3* Spider-man plays in MPQ, it is not true to the character and frankly was a poor design decision in terms of the character, especially that accursed healing ability. There's a reason 1* Spider-Man is considered the best version in the game; it's dynamic, fast and packs a punch. Please do not conflate your appreciation of support role characters with Spider-man, because he is not by any stretch of the imagination.

    The devs have removed healing abilities from characters before (see She-Hulk's old green move Reprieve) and honestly there are no memorable instances of Spider-Man ever being a "healer". In fact, his radioactive blood almost killed his Aunt May when she needed a blood transfusion and in the miniseries Reign he gave MJ cancer. In all probability, the design team was in need of a "support" character and it was rather arbitrarily decided that Spider-Man would be it. (I mean *sheesh*Deadpool probably has more instances of "healing" people with his powers than Spider-man.)

    I'm not asking for the devs to give Spidey a nuke ability. I would rather he have a more dynamic attack that gets stronger with the more web tiles that are out. And I also agree that his Spider-Sense ability doesn't really reflect the actually ability very well.

    I still scratch my head as to why Spidey was delegated the de facto support role when there are plenty of other characters who could fulfill that role much better *cough* Jubilee, Rick Jones* although in the realm of healing such characters as Exodus and Elixir are the better fit.

    tl;dr: The current 3* version of Spider-man is a result of arbitrary design choices that do not do the character justice. Spider-man is not a support character nor a magic healing man.

    This message brought to you by the Buff Spidey Brigade
  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
      All Tied Up - Blue 5 bluetile.png
      Spider-Man slings webs, stunning the enemy for 1 turn. He then adds a Yellow Web tile to the board.
        Level 2: +1 turn of stun if 3 Web tiles exist Level 3: +1 turn of stun if 2 Web tiles exist Level 4: +1 turn of stun if 1 Web tile exists Level 5: +1 or +2 turns of stun when 1 or 2 Web tiles exist.


      If any of the enemies are stunned, this ability becomes...
        Nowhere to Go - Blue 5 bluetile.png
        Spider-Man swings in for an attack on his enemy, dealing X damage to all stunned enemies. He then adds a Yellow Web tile to the board.
          Level 2: +X damage if 3 Web tiles exist Level 3: +X damage if 2 Web tiles exist Level 4: +X damage if 1 Web tile exists Level 5: +X damage if 1 Web tile exists or +Y damage when more Web tiles exist.


        (edit: I notice they stole this idea for black suit's invisibility)

        Changing web bandages to:
          Web Bandages - Yellow 12 yellowtile.png
          Spider-Man webs makeshift slings, healing his team for 142. If 3 or more Web tiles exist he heals his team for an additional 149.
            Level 2: Increases base healing to 199. Level 3: Increases base healing to 256. Level 4: Increases base healing to 312. Level 5: Increases base healing to 369.
          Max level 141 5/5: Heals for 2314 with an additional 934 with 3 Web tiles.

          Alternatively, get rid of Web Bandages and go with:
            Superhuman Strength - Yellow 8 yellowtile.png
            Spider-Man packs the proportional strength of a spider into a single punch, damaging the enemy for X. If 3 or more Web tiles exist he destroys all Web tiles to do an additional Y damage per Web tile, otherwise, create 1 Web tile.
              Level 2: Increases damage. Level 3: Increases damage, if fewer than 3 Web tiles he also stuns the enemy for one turn. Level 4: Increases damage, reduces AP cost to 7. Level 5: Increases damage, if fewer than 3 Web tiles he also stuns the enemy for two turns.


            I would also add the following:
              Spider Senses - Purple PASSIVE
              Spider-Man's senses tingle and he creates a web line to escape danger. If Spider-Man has less than half of his maximum health, his team has at least 5 purpletile.png AP, and Spider Man is about to take damage greater than 5% of his total health, Spider Man avoids 50% of the damage, creates a Web tile, and gains 1 turn [Airborne] status. At the start of your turn is Spider-Man is [Airborne], he true heals X health.
                Level 2: Triggers at 60% max health. Level 3: Triggers at 65% max health. Level 4: Avoids 60% of damage. Level 5: Avoids 65% of damage, triggers with at least 4
              purpletile.png AP.
            • D4Ni13D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
              Buret0 wrote:
                All Tied Up - Blue 5 bluetile.png
                Spider-Man slings webs, stunning the enemy for 1 turn. He then adds a Yellow Web tile to the board.
                  Level 2: +1 turn of stun if 3 Web tiles exist Level 3: +1 turn of stun if 2 Web tiles exist Level 4: +1 turn of stun if 1 Web tile exists Level 5: +1 or +2 turns of stun when 1 or 2 Web tiles exist.


                If any of the enemies are stunned, this ability becomes...
                  Nowhere to Go - Blue 5 bluetile.png
                  Spider-Man swings in for an attack on his enemy, dealing X damage to all stunned enemies. He then adds a Yellow Web tile to the board.
                    Level 2: +X damage if 3 Web tiles exist Level 3: +X damage if 2 Web tiles exist Level 4: +X damage if 1 Web tile exists Level 5: +X damage if 1 Web tile exists or +Y damage when more Web tiles exist.


                  (edit: I notice they stole this idea for black suit's invisibility)

                  Changing web bandages to:
                    Web Bandages - Yellow 12 yellowtile.png
                    Spider-Man webs makeshift slings, healing his team for 142. If 3 or more Web tiles exist he heals his team for an additional 149.
                      Level 2: Increases base healing to 199. Level 3: Increases base healing to 256. Level 4: Increases base healing to 312. Level 5: Increases base healing to 369.
                    Max level 141 5/5: Heals for 2314 with an additional 934 with 3 Web tiles.

                    Alternatively, get rid of Web Bandages and go with:
                      Superhuman Strength - Yellow 8 yellowtile.png
                      Spider-Man packs the proportional strength of a spider into a single punch, damaging the enemy for X. If 3 or more Web tiles exist he destroys all Web tiles to do an additional Y damage per Web tile, otherwise, create 1 Web tile.
                        Level 2: Increases damage. Level 3: Increases damage, if fewer than 3 Web tiles he also stuns the enemy for one turn. Level 4: Increases damage, reduces AP cost to 7. Level 5: Increases damage, if fewer than 3 Web tiles he also stuns the enemy for two turns.


                      I would also add the following:
                        Spider Senses - Purple PASSIVE
                        Spider-Man's senses tingle and he creates a web line to escape danger. If Spider-Man has less than half of his maximum health, his team has at least 5 purpletile.png AP, and Spider Man is about to take damage greater than 5% of his total health, Spider Man avoids 50% of the damage, creates a Web tile, and gains 1 turn [Airborne] status. At the start of your turn is Spider-Man is [Airborne], he true heals X health.
                          Level 2: Triggers at 60% max health. Level 3: Triggers at 65% max health. Level 4: Avoids 60% of damage. Level 5: Avoids 65% of damage, triggers with at least 4
                        purpletile.png AP.

                        I like all your abilities, but again the purple is a little OP and would transform Spidey into a tank. Granted the 5 AP would be a very good balancing condition, but just don't see them doing this... I would love a 3* Spidey like this, and I got to say he would be more thematic. but than again with this changes he could be better than Miles, and that's not a desired thing for the devs I quess.

                        And agree that Peter is the true Spider-Man, and I already said in the Unknown topic that I find Spider-Gwen lame.
                      • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
                        D4Ni13 wrote:

                        I like all your abilities, but again the purple is a little OP and would transform Spidey into a tank. Granted the 5 AP would be a very good balancing condition, but just don't see them doing this... I would love a 3* Spidey like this, and I got to say he would be more thematic. but than again with this changes he could be better than Miles, and that's not a desired thing for the devs I quess.

                        And agree that Peter is the true Spider-Man, and I already said in the Unknown topic that I find Spider-Gwen lame.

                        What if it consumed the purpletile.png AP?
                      • D4Ni13D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
                        Buret0 wrote:

                        What if it consumed the purpletile.png AP?

                        Yeah, I guess that could work too...
                        Don't get me wrong. I love the abilities as you first write them, it's just I don't think the devs would do so much changes... I hope they do though.
                      • Azoth658Azoth658 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
                        I think the major problem most people seem to have with Spidey is that he is a huge character fan base wise (hence adding a 1* variant and all the new 4 and 5 characters) yet his 3* abilities center around the two least useful facilities (niche use) in the game Burst healing and Protect tiles.

                        His web bandages require 12AP that's a huge chunk of AP for a little bit of burst healing when the other burst healers are far better:

                        Beast is 11AP and he creates protect tiles at the same time.
                        Black Widow is 9AP and she can take 4 of that in one blue if the enemy have any blue AP plus delays countdown tiles.
                        Kamala Khan gives the entire team a chunk for any ability used by a team mate as a passive so 0 AP!!!

                        If you were teaming Spidey up with quite a lot of the heavy hitters there is almost always yellow ability that will do a ton of damage for 12 AP. Web bandages is clearly overpriced and underpowered.


                        Then we have All Tied Up. Ok, this is a pretty good ability as it stands but if it could add some damage then It would feel more fitting as Spidey does attack his opponents. The only other character that doesn't have a single damage power is Loki who is known as a trickster and not actually getting into fights. Heck Spidey has the proportional strength of a Spider but does nothing with it currently.


                        Lastly we have Spider Sense which is a lovely little passive except the protect tiles don't protect very much and rely on your team making a purple match. Heck if I bought along a fully championed 2* Bullseye I'd probably have more defense each match due to his Adamantium passive. Parker's spider sense has saved his life countless times yet here all it does is allow him to avoid a tiny amount of match damage if the board is kind and he has matched a bunch of purple first.


                        I know we can't expect a major overhaul and I'm standing on my soapbox but I just want to highlight in the hope that the Devs read these character threads how such a Iconic character can be so un-useful in this game. Either make his protection and healing really worth while or round him out to be an all rounder of a character. Moderate at everything including damage, rather than sub mediocre with all the stuff you have given him.
                      • SkygazingSkygazing Age Unconfirmed Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
                        I've been thinking about this for a while since Parker has been my favorite Marvel character since I was a kid (still holding out for a 4* though I doubt we'll see it any time soon), so here's my own personal take on how to fix Spidey while maintaining what people like about him currently (numbers are 166):
                        Spidey-Sense 0 yellowtile.png AP
                        (PASSIVE) Spider-Man's senses tingle and he moves to protect his team. Whenever an enemy fires a power, he creates a Strength 93 Protect tile if there are no friendly Protect tiles.
                          Level 2: Creates a Protect tile if there are less than 2 friendly Protect tiles on the board. Level 3: Tile Strength is increased to 125. Level 4: Creates a Protect tile if there are less than 3 friendly Protect tiles on the board. Level 5: Tile Strength is increased to 206, and Spider-Man also creates a Yellow Web Tile.

                        Acrobatic Swing 9 purpletile.png AP
                        Spider-Man uses his wits, webs, and super strength for the perfect strike! Deals 2383 to the target and 285 extra damage for each Web tile on the board, then removes all Web tiles.
                          Level 2: Bonus damage increases to 451. Level 3: Base damage increases to 3164. Level 4: Bonus damage increases to 617. Level 5: Base damage increases to 4064.

                        All Tied Up 5 bluetile.png AP
                        Spider-Man slings webs, stunning the enemy for 1 turn. He then adds a Yellow Web tile to the board.
                          Level 2: +1 turn of stun if 3 Web tiles exist Level 3: +1 turn of stun if 2 Web tiles exist Level 4: +1 turn of stun if 1 Web tile exists Level 5: +1 or +2 turns of stun when 1 or 2 Web tiles exist.

                        Yellow has been changed to a updated version of his original purple, as the idea of protecting allies fits more closely with yellow than purple. At five covers it also creates a web tile, which gives incentive to actually do so.

                        Purple has been updated to a single target nuke in the vein of Miles, the drawback of course being that it removes all web tiles after being used. This is a 3* after all. At max level though with only 3 Web tiles on the board you'll be dealing about 657 damage per AP, which is a higher ratio than even Cyke Black (~629 per AP). I also just enjoy the flavor of Spidey whipping around the field, pulling allies away from harm while stunning enemies, only to lead into one perfect strike. The potential damage here is also limited by the fact that Web tiles can just be matched away before this goes off.

                        Blue remains the same, as most people seem to agree that it's probably his biggest selling point in 3* land.

                        The idea here is to make him a more versatile character that can be built to fit different roles. 5/5/3 is a solid single target damage build, 5/3/5 makes him a great support, and 3/5/5 is admittedly weaker but lets him setup for his nuke a bit more easily. The numbers on yellow and purple might need some tweaking but overall this feels pretty balanced for a 3*. Plus none of these changes would really require new animations/art.
                      • DormammuDormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
                        He's pretty good when partnered with... no, wait, that was someone else.
                      • SpiritclawSpiritclaw Posts: 397 Mover and Shaker
                        Dormammu said:
                        He's pretty good when partnered with... no, wait, that was someone else.
                        Patch and Grey Widow.  Maybe not fantastic, but pretty good.
                      • Tromb2ch2Tromb2ch2 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 301 Mover and Shaker
                        He goes great with miles and gwen. But he still becomes a liability. 
                      • DormammuDormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
                        edited April 2017
                        Patch and Grey Widow? 2-star Bullseye is a better option (a 2-STAR!). Miles and Gwen? Two weaksauce characters with nothing in common other than web tiles - they share too many colors, can't provide enough damage output, and are not enhanced by the presence of Spider-Man who shares the same colors and doesn't add any damage.

                        There is nothing Spider-Man does that someone else doesn't do better. Blue stun? Dr. Strange buries Spider-Man. Defense tile generation? 3Cage makes a stronger one automatically. Yellow healing? Well, let's see, there's Strange again... Kamala... and they both do it passively.

                        I love Spider-Man, he's my favorite character of all time, but his 3-star version is an antique. A relic of the past that has been bypassed by the entire game.
                      • Tromb2ch2Tromb2ch2 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 301 Mover and Shaker
                        @Dormammu

                        Spid3y is there for 3 turn stuns and making more web tiles. Also gwen does 9k for 6 red (unboostrd) and miles was hitting for around 13-15k for purple unboosted.
                      • Rick_OShayRick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
                        Hey, Spidey's new buff is now Live!
                        His yellow does good damage, especially if you have a downed ally. This may now be a reason to bring along an injured (or generally weak) character into battle. 

                        What do you think so far?
                        How would you spec him now?  I went from 3/5/5 to 5/5/3.
                        Who would you bring as allies?  I used new Spidey with 3*Punisher in his Dat Required Character for perfect color overlap. Brought Falcon for buffing specials and took nearly no damage. Sailed through The Big Enchilada as well.
                      • iron-n-wineiron-n-wine Posts: 494 Mover and Shaker
                        I havent tried the updated Spidey yet, but I was thinking 5/5/3 as well
                      • JaedenkaalJaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
                        I don't think I'd ever intentionally try to down an ally just to boost damage on yellow. The base damage should be enough most of the time, and an active ally should be more helpful than doubling the damage on a 12 AP power most of the time as well.

                        Don't know how often I'll use him, but I've strated him at 5/4/4; I'm imagining it could be difficult to collect 12 yellow AP and still keep many (yellow) Web tiles around for the 3 turn stun.
                      • MaskedManMaskedMan Age Unconfirmed Posts: 234 Tile Toppler
                        I don't know.  Doesn't seem like Puzzle Quest if there is a useful Spider-man character in it.....
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