Please provide information on mastering quickly!!!

Brigby

Hi Everyone. I posted this in the blog post announcement, but I also wanted to share this here:
===========
Thanks for all the feedback. Alain wanted to pass along some responses to a couple of questions and comments players have said.

Avacyn's Madness was only giving 2 XP to unmastered cards, not 20
"Thanks for the feedback regarding rechargeable nodes. The team confirmed they should provide +20 XP as normal when recharged and it will be corrected in the closest update."

Why did veteran players not receive the same rewards as newer players?
"Regarding the rewards that were given, the point to be made is the amount versus the intervals they were/will be given in. The path we found ourselves in was to either lower the rewards planned throughout the next feature updates but provide a bunch upfront (not only for veterans but for newer players as well as they would, otherwise, feel relegated) or to space them out over the following months providing multiple rewards for veteran players and new players alike.

The first would benefit who's currently in the game, but seemed rather disappointing in the following months when a lot of the new features would become available and for those we still want to reach. The second would allow the planned game modes and Trophies to provide more rewards for veterans (even some unique ones in some cases) than what was just given.

We'd like to remind the community that more free content and rewards should be available soon for long time players - those with many mastered cards -, once we have the next implementations up and running. Not just free content, but new (exclusive) customization content as well."

Brigby's TL;DR: Avacyn's Madness should have given out 20 XP. This will be fixed in an upcoming build. The team plans to give veteran players more rewards over the long-term, due to their higher player level than newer players, once upcoming features are implemented.

Laeuftbeidir

Brigby said:

Brigby's TL;DR: Avacyn's Madness should have given out 20 XP. This will be fixed in an upcoming build. The team plans to give veteran players more rewards over the long-term, due to their higher player level than newer players, once upcoming features are implemented.

The rewards thingy is nice to know. But apart from some loud voices, the rewards are not the actual thing we're concerned about : as @Brakkis pointed out it is the maximum level reachable  that is way lower for us, who invested more time in mastering than other players with the same collection. Or new players.

Those players with a lot of cards but fewer mastered cards will overtake us regarding the level in a very short amount of time. I did the math : I have 15% of the xp I should have. 1700 cards I mastered but have no XP from and can't get no XP from in the future.

Then, the higher rewards for higher level will hurt us who are locked down.

We don't know if there's a maximum level. We don't know if that's actually a disadvantage for the future. 

This is not greed - this is the actual feeling of some of your most active players that they'll be left behind because they invested time.

Matthew

Laeuftbeidir said:

We don't know if there's a maximum level. We don't know if that's actually a disadvantage for the future. 

This is not greed - this is the actual feeling of some of your most active players that they'll be left behind because they invested time.

This really is the heart of all the discontent. I want to applaud the fact that the dev team is appears to be actively engaged in the community response to this new feature. That is nearly unprecedented, but it is an incredible breath of fresh air.

However, as Laeuftbeidir’s point at the very end of his post is the most critical part of this issue, I hope the dev team can get us a response on it in a similarly quick fashion.

Brigby

Hi Everyone. I've passed on the additional inquiries about the player level and whether there is a maximum level. Since it is 8pm in Brazil, it is likely the team is out of the office already, but I'll be sure to provide their response when I receive it.

Laeuftbeidir

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone. I've passed on the additional inquiries about the player level and whether there is a maximum level. Since it is 8pm in Brazil, it is likely the team is out of the office already, but I'll be sure to provide their response when I receive it.

Thanks for the fast response. I appreciate it! Don't forget that magic players are.. Let's say a "special" type of people with "special" needs. I for one would be most happy by receiving all Infos unfiltered as a spreadsheet to dig up anything I want to know

Brigby

starfall said:

Laeuftbeidir said:

I did the math : I have 15% of the xp I should have. 1700 cards I mastered but have no XP from and can't get no XP from in the future. 

15%? I had no idea it was so low.

Now I'm even more upset. 

😡

As stated in the blog post, please note that the conversion was done on a curve and wasn't linear. Due to this, the XP required to go from level 1 to 2 may not be the same as going from level 30 to 31.

During the initial conversion, all players were placed according to a conversion curve that differs from their current card mastery, in order to still allow level gaining.

Laeuftbeidir

Brigby said:

starfall said:

Laeuftbeidir said:

I did the math : I have 15% of the xp I should have. 1700 cards I mastered but have no XP from and can't get no XP from in the future. 

15%? I had no idea it was so low.

Now I'm even more upset. 

😡

As stated in the blog post, please note that the conversion was done on a curve and wasn't linear. Due to this, the XP required to go from level 1 to 2 may not be the same as going from level 30 to 31.

During the initial conversion, all players were placed according to a conversion curve that differs from their current card mastery, in order to still allow level gaining.

Yep, we crowdsearched the process and gathered the xp necessary for around 25 of the first 43 levels. Most of them are in the level 28-43 range. There's of course an error margin because the holes are filled by estimations and a little bit of statistics.

Level 41 needs around 85k experience.  +/- 5k

I had mastered when the update came

Commons 703 = 70,300 xp

Uncommons 680 = 136,000 xp

Rares 435 = 174,000 xp

Mythics 198 = 158,400 Xp

Masterpieces 15 = 12,000  cp

That adds up to 550,700 xp. Not counting partly mastered cards, that's around 15%.

This numbers are true for me. A coalition mate at level 36 had around 25%xp, another one with more than 100 more mastered cards was at around 12%, so we already knew an exponential curve was used for this transition. Due to the nature of such exponential functions it hit you harder the more cards mastered, up to à point where some hundred cards more or less did not made any difference at all. 

-> that's why a maximum level that will never be changed is my only theory that could make the full system fair also for us vets... If there's none I'll kindly ask the support daily to reset my mastery to 0.

Edit - I feel the need to point out it again : I'm grateful for getting the free gifts that I would not have gotten without the new system. I'm grateful again for upcoming ones. It's the fact that we need to crowdsearch and cry here to get details about it and we don't know about future implications that set me up.

GrizzoMtGPQ

Laeuftbeidir said:

Brigby said:

starfall said:

Laeuftbeidir said:

I did the math : I have 15% of the xp I should have. 1700 cards I mastered but have no XP from and can't get no XP from in the future. 

15%? I had no idea it was so low.

Now I'm even more upset. 

😡

As stated in the blog post, please note that the conversion was done on a curve and wasn't linear. Due to this, the XP required to go from level 1 to 2 may not be the same as going from level 30 to 31.

During the initial conversion, all players were placed according to a conversion curve that differs from their current card mastery, in order to still allow level gaining.

Yep, we crowdsearched the process and gathered the xp necessary for around 25 of the first 43 levels. Most of them are in the level 28-43 range. There's of course an error margin because the holes are filled by estimations and a little bit of statistics.

Level 41 needs around 85k experience.  +/- 5k

I had mastered when the update came

Commons 703 = 70,300 xp

Uncommons 680 = 136,000 xp

Rares 435 = 174,000 xp

Mythics 198 = 158,400 Xp

Masterpieces 15 = 12,000  cp

That adds up to 550,700 xp. Not counting partly mastered cards, that's around 15%.

This numbers are true for me. A coalition mate at level 36 had around 25%xp, another one with more than 100 more mastered cards was at around 12%, so we already knew an exponential curve was used for this transition. Due to the nature of such exponential functions it hit you harder the more cards mastered, up to à point where some hundred cards more or less did not made any difference at all. 

-> that's why a maximum level that will never be changed is my only theory that could make the full system fair also for us vets... If there's none I'll kindly ask the support daily to reset my mastery to 0.

This should be a one-time offer to all players. Zero out mastery.

Larz70

I collected the mastery of about 300 player profiles in the game and created a chart to visualize the problem @Brigby

The curve you are referring to is clearly shown in the chart.  Below level 30, the green circle represents players leveling up post-3.2 and earning experience and mastering cards as normal.  Seems alright to me.  But players level 30 and above (red circle) playing matches post-3.2 will level much quicker without having to master as much cards as the veterans who mastered their cards pre-3.2.

This is the picture with only a week or so into 3.2, imagine what it would be like a few more weeks from now. @Brigby this issue is very real and will only get worse.  This requires some drastic measures don't you think?

EDIT: The previous chart contained incorrect data that made the issue look much worse.  I updated it with the correct numbers but do note that the issue still exists.  For the green circle, there's some issue there that needs some interpretation but my main point is the problem presented by the points inside the red circle.

EDIT #2:  The dot inside the green circle was a result of a typo so pls ignore that.  In other words, below level 30, there's not much to see in the data.

Laeuftbeidir

@Larz70 interesting idea to use the color mastery as basis. Took me two minutes to fully understand it, nice visualizion, and an interesting different take at the issue!

I thought about doing the same with the actual XP per player, but without adding a lot additional value now that you posted your findings I can only offer you an invite to our Slack for additional data

Larz70

Thanks @Laeuftbeidir
I'm on FTA Slack and sent you a link to my data.  I'd love to see the data you have on this issue as well.

I was also thinking of coming up with some options on how the developers can solve the issue.  This leveling up thing post-3.2 could be considered an exploit of some sort taking advantage of the ridiculously easy way to gain levels (FULL DISCLOSURE, I am taking advantage of this as well although I only managed to level up only once.  I play only unmasterd cards in TG for 60XP a game, although I'm so bad I lose half my matches, and AJTH 200 XP per match -> total of 1280 XP for 8 TG wins and 4 AJTH nodes )

The first thing that came to mind was:
1) Do another level adjustment and give the veterans a few more level ups (maybe all the way to 50)
2) Increase the XP required to level up from 30 onwards.

This way, the curve and the post 3.2 line can meet somewhere in the middle.  I haven't had time to think about exactly what the new level and XP values should be but I think the developers need to adjust this sooner than later.

Tremayne

Now I feel I have read the blog post enough times without becoming any wiser! Is it me who can’t understand English.

what do I get out of mastering to a specific level - and I do not mean rewards - I mean will I be matched against others of my level in TG, IX or pick some other event?
or will my level effect with prizes I am competing for?
or will event be targeted at specific levels? So I can play events with more difficult decks or thougher planeswalker.
or do I get free coffee at Starbucks?
or does it matter at all?

anyone have any insight after reading the blog post?

mayor

Tremayne said:

Now I feel I have read the blog post enough times without becoming any wiser! Is it me who can’t understand English.

what do I get out of mastering to a specific level - and I do not mean rewards - I mean will I be matched against others of my level in TG, IX or pick some other event?
or will my level effect with prizes I am competing for?
or will event be targeted at specific levels? So I can play events with more difficult decks or thougher planeswalker.
or do I get free coffee at Starbucks?
or does it matter at all?

anyone have any insight after reading the blog post?

Getting an answer out of all these questions is the aim of this discussion. It seems devs haven't decided or can't yet, until they design new content. I'll just sit comfortably at level 46 watching new players going higher, since I spent my time mastering all my cards pre-patch.

Mburn7

mayor said:

Tremayne said:

Now I feel I have read the blog post enough times without becoming any wiser! Is it me who can’t understand English.

what do I get out of mastering to a specific level - and I do not mean rewards - I mean will I be matched against others of my level in TG, IX or pick some other event?
or will my level effect with prizes I am competing for?
or will event be targeted at specific levels? So I can play events with more difficult decks or thougher planeswalker.
or do I get free coffee at Starbucks?
or does it matter at all?

anyone have any insight after reading the blog post?

Getting an answer out of all these questions is the aim of this discussion. It seems devs haven't decided or can't yet, until they design new content. I'll just sit comfortably at level 46 watching new players going higher, since I spent my time mastering all my cards pre-patch.

Seriously, level 46?  That's amazing. 

If you remember the rewards you started with and any level-up rewards you've gotten since the update, could you message them to me?  I'm putting together a spreadsheet of all the level up info since the devs won't give us anything

Laeuftbeidir

Mburn7 said:

mayor said:

Tremayne said:

Now I feel I have read the blog post enough times without becoming any wiser! Is it me who can’t understand English.

what do I get out of mastering to a specific level - and I do not mean rewards - I mean will I be matched against others of my level in TG, IX or pick some other event?
or will my level effect with prizes I am competing for?
or will event be targeted at specific levels? So I can play events with more difficult decks or thougher planeswalker.
or do I get free coffee at Starbucks?
or does it matter at all?

anyone have any insight after reading the blog post?

Getting an answer out of all these questions is the aim of this discussion. It seems devs haven't decided or can't yet, until they design new content. I'll just sit comfortably at level 46 watching new players going higher, since I spent my time mastering all my cards pre-patch.

Seriously, level 46?  That's amazing. 

If you remember the rewards you started with and any level-up rewards you've gotten since the update, could you message them to me?  I'm putting together a spreadsheet of all the level up info since the devs won't give us anything

(don't forget the xp to level up)

And yes.. We currently don't know how we should feel about this feature, so we need the devs to tell us about it

The last questions got there Thursday after business time, Friday is usually a short day (I assume.. Don't know a lot about Brazil), so I'm not concerned if the answers pop in not before Tuesday

Tremayne

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone. I've passed on the additional inquiries about the player level and whether there is a maximum level. Since it is 8pm in Brazil, it is likely the team is out of the office already, but I'll be sure to provide their response when I receive it.

Did we I get an answer to this question?

IM_CARLOS

Tremayne said:

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone. I've passed on the additional inquiries about the player level and whether there is a maximum level. Since it is 8pm in Brazil, it is likely the team is out of the office already, but I'll be sure to provide their response when I receive it.

Did we I get an answer to this question?

Maybe they have way longer days in brazil. 

But hey, noce to know I have to pay premium for mediocre service  

Brigby

Tremayne said:

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone. I've passed on the additional inquiries about the player level and whether there is a maximum level. Since it is 8pm in Brazil, it is likely the team is out of the office already, but I'll be sure to provide their response when I receive it.

Did we I get an answer to this question?

I ideally wanted to get the full information of the system from the devs, because I know how many different aspects this answer is tied to, but I also didn't want to keep players waiting too long. Please note that I'm answering this question in a vacuum, and once I get more details from the team, then I can answer any subsequent questions.

Q: Is there a maximum level?
A: No. There is no maximum Player Level.