The elusive 5* Carol
Comments
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How would YOU know if they're good?Daredevil217 said:Good discussion! I’ll just reply to some comments in general.
- A few people say they’d be fine with a character who is “good” even if they don’t redefine the meta. Cable, Loki, Ghost Rider, Angel, and now Ock all probably fall in this tier. So it’s not like we haven’t had “good” characters. It’s just that they’re not Thorkoye and that’s the problem with the 5* tier. You are not incentivized to play anything but the best (or your best).
You've avoided the 5* tier like the plague for over a year.
Daredevil is "good". Spidey is "good". Jessica is "good".
Cable is OK, Loki is OK, Ghost Rider is meh, Angel is meh, Ock went from absolute trash tier to passable.
None of these are "good".
They're ok with the god boost in PVE but see no use otherwise.
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That's not a problem with the 5* tier, that's a problem with the game design and speed being essential if you want to reach particular goals (quickly).Daredevil217 said:It’s just that they’re not Thorkoye and that’s the problem with the 5* tier. You are not incentivized to play anything but the best (or your best).
When I had to play with 2*s, I didn't use Hawykeye over BW/Storm/Ares/Thor (as remains the case to this day, in ddq). When I had to play with 3*s, I didn't use Doc Ock over Dr S + Thanos. When I had to play with 4*s, I didn't use ... whoever else was around at the time Jean, or Iceman, or Carol first appeared. Now, playing with 5*s, yeah, I use Thor/Okoye primarily because they're fast. But I wasn't any more encouraged to mix teams up at lower tiers than I am at the 5*.
I made a poll a while ago about what % of their roster people use. 59% of people said 0-10%. 21% of people said 11-20%. And they certainly were not all 5* players. So that's a lot of people using not very much of their roster, regardless of their 'tier'.
The 'problem' with 5* is there's less option for taking on the meta than in the 4* tier, because of less characters. But if you have the meta, regardless of tier, there's not much point using anyone else if your aim is to finish fast.
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On topic, as for Captain Marvel 5*... who knows? Can speculate all we like, but as other people have astutely pointed out, it's impossible to tell because it's unlikely the devs even know how one character will specifically interact with each of the dozens of others. She might be amazing, she might be mediocre. The main issue (in my eyes) is even the most brilliantly designed character still won't be worth going for if it doesn't synergise well with others. It all depends on the interactions at this point, rather than the individual aspects.
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Some good points there. Though I can’t remember the last time I ran the 4* meta personally. Probably when one of them was boosted. As you move deeper into a tier, your boosted options become greater and greater and you rely less on the meta characters (or at least you should... I hit every unboosted Grocket team I can with my big boosted 4s).Lystrata said:
That's not a problem with the 5* tier, that's a problem with the game design and speed being essential if you want to reach particular goals (quickly).Daredevil217 said:It’s just that they’re not Thorkoye and that’s the problem with the 5* tier. You are not incentivized to play anything but the best (or your best).
When I had to play with 2*s, I didn't use Hawykeye over BW/Storm/Ares/Thor (as remains the case to this day, in ddq). When I had to play with 3*s, I didn't use Doc Ock over Dr S + Thanos. When I had to play with 4*s, I didn't use ... whoever else was around at the time Jean, or Iceman, or Carol first appeared. Now, playing with 5*s, yeah, I use Thor/Okoye primarily because they're fast. But I wasn't any more encouraged to mix teams up at lower tiers than I am at the 5*.
I made a poll a while ago about what % of their roster people use. 59% of people said 0-10%. 21% of people said 11-20%. And they certainly were not all 5* players. So that's a lot of people using not very much of their roster, regardless of their 'tier'.
The 'problem' with 5* is there's less option for taking on the meta than in the 4* tier, because of less characters. But if you have the meta, regardless of tier, there's not much point using anyone else if your aim is to finish fast.
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On topic, as for Captain Marvel 5*... who knows? Can speculate all we like, but as other people have astutely pointed out, it's impossible to tell because it's unlikely the devs even know how one character will specifically interact with each of the dozens of others. She might be amazing, she might be mediocre. The main issue (in my eyes) is even the most brilliantly designed character still won't be worth going for if it doesn't synergise well with others. It all depends on the interactions at this point, rather than the individual aspects.
The game being about speed doesn’t seem problematic to me. I like that element of gameplay. Things like DDQ are a boring slog to me, even though I get to play at my own pace. I want to use my fastest characters not to place high, but to get through it ASAP. I like the extra rush that speed play creates and like that I can choose not to play that way and just play for progression and that’s okay too.
As far as character use goes, I guess I’m in the minority as I use probably 60-80% of my roster. Or at least I did. It has gone down quite a bit since I started leveling up 5* characters. Thor and Kitty are very heavily used (not together). Also, 5* Daredevil and a 1* are my go-to team for 75 wins off retals which I’m doing more of if I can.
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I see all those characters. I have 2 champed 5*'s. If someone does not have thorkoye they will use what is available to them. Those characters he listed are good, they are just not great like thorkoye.Bowgentle said:
How would YOU know if they're good?Daredevil217 said:Good discussion! I’ll just reply to some comments in general.
- A few people say they’d be fine with a character who is “good” even if they don’t redefine the meta. Cable, Loki, Ghost Rider, Angel, and now Ock all probably fall in this tier. So it’s not like we haven’t had “good” characters. It’s just that they’re not Thorkoye and that’s the problem with the 5* tier. You are not incentivized to play anything but the best (or your best).
You've avoided the 5* tier like the plague for over a year.
Daredevil is "good". Spidey is "good". Jessica is "good".
Cable is OK, Loki is OK, Ghost Rider is meh, Angel is meh, Ock went from absolute trash tier to passable.
None of these are "good".
They're ok with the god boost in PVE but see no use otherwise.
You do not have to have personally experienced something to have knowledge of it.1 -
And that's an ok point to make. One person says they are probably considered good, (not a definitive statement.) Then someone else says they have no idea what they are talking about and none of them are seen outside of boosted in pve (very definitive statement, that is also an exaggeration making it false) just irks me a bit. So I reply.OJSP said:
I think the point he’s trying to make is: the characters that they define as “good” are different.tiomono said:
I see all those characters. I have 2 champed 5*'s. If someone does not have thorkoye they will use what is available to them. Those characters he listed are good, they are just not great like thorkoye.Bowgentle said:
How would YOU know if they're good?Daredevil217 said:Good discussion! I’ll just reply to some comments in general.
- A few people say they’d be fine with a character who is “good” even if they don’t redefine the meta. Cable, Loki, Ghost Rider, Angel, and now Ock all probably fall in this tier. So it’s not like we haven’t had “good” characters. It’s just that they’re not Thorkoye and that’s the problem with the 5* tier. You are not incentivized to play anything but the best (or your best).
You've avoided the 5* tier like the plague for over a year.
Daredevil is "good". Spidey is "good". Jessica is "good".
Cable is OK, Loki is OK, Ghost Rider is meh, Angel is meh, Ock went from absolute trash tier to passable.
None of these are "good".
They're ok with the god boost in PVE but see no use otherwise.
You do not have to have personally experienced something to have knowledge of it.0 -
Daredevil217 said:Some good points there. Though I can’t remember the last time I ran the 4* meta personally. Probably when one of them was boosted. As you move deeper into a tier, your boosted options become greater and greater and you rely less on the meta characters (or at least you should... I hit every unboosted Grocket team I can with my big boosted 4s).
The game being about speed doesn’t seem problematic to me. I like that element of gameplay. Things like DDQ are a boring slog to me, even though I get to play at my own pace. I want to use my fastest characters not to place high, but to get through it ASAP. I like the extra rush that speed play creates and like that I can choose not to play that way and just play for progression and that’s okay too.
Heh, exactly my point. Playing slowly is boring. And people use their best teams to get through quickly, regardless of the reason why they want to go fast - whether for placement, for the thrill, to avoid spending more time than is necessary on the game, to optimise a shield hop, because the sound of 'for the love of god get off the phone and help me with the shopping, the children are eating dirt again...' coming from a SO is getting a bit repetitive ... etc. Speed is good.
(Though I'm sure there are some people out there who happily use the whole gamut of their roster, because their reason(s) for playing don't necessarily align with any of those aforementioned reasons. Not denying that's possible.) But for anyone who wants to play quickly - for whatever reason - they will pick the best choice available to them, regardless of tier.
Whether that means using boosted chars, meta chars, the best synergised team they can make... whatever.. it'll be the same rationale at any tier. It just looks worse on the surface at 5* level because a lesser number of characters (in general and boosted at a given time) by default means a lesser number of options/combinations. You might see more 'variety' at 4* level, but chances are people are still just going with their fastest combination.
That's why we ended up with threads about Sentry/Hood, Winfinite, Grocket/Gamora/Medusa, etc.
Suggesting the lack of incentive to use anything but the best combination at 5* level is a problem unique to that tier just seems a bit silly to me, because history throughout this game shows that isn't the case.3 -
She is well represented at every level, except for 1* which I really think they need more 1+2*'s -They need to back em up with a champion system, replayable Prolouge, and challenge modes but the first add should be 1* Cap'n
I use 2* Marvel w/ Okoye to create TU cascades and her Sonic Boom rocks em like a Guile corner trap(again and again)
If 3* Captain Marvel had her scaling on energy absorption fixed so that she doesn't get worse as her levels go up and let her absorb off friendly fire then she would get as much use as Hawkguy/Cyclops/hood for the AP Gen(5Red3BLack!!). Her shield destruction often gets overlooked and her stun is one of the best for 3*. I wouldn't say she is good but she gets a decent amount of usage from 2/3 newbs that are getting her from the early farm. I remember her as one of my first and highest champs and used to do a strange/Carol float to save on healthpacks. she's not nuthin
4* is just simply the best in her class.
5* : she will have this cool unique tile called a Storm tile...
I think she will have some passive decrease to CD/Repeater tiles, some overpriced splodey Carol Corps showin up and fattens your lip kinda move like Fury/Cap'n/Spider-ham; or a carol corps interactive ability like Lockjaw. I think there will be an insane nuke but with something along the lines of if Captain Marvel has taken X amount of damage this turn, then Deal Y+Y damage. I think she will be good for transition players because the others all are. I think they will give her numbers some beef and make her easy to use because I just gotta believe that they just gotta know the difference between booty garbage like Falcap/Bucky and hawt chase like Vulture/America. I just gotta believe they know, deep down after the group meeting by themselves at their desk know that Emma Frost is not of equivalent quality as Carol Danvers. and they saving the good stuff for her, they want to make her good.
However she won't be meta unless she messes with the manapool. maaaayyyybe if her nuke is real cheap and fast
So I would like to see a 5/1 release:
Brie Larson 1* version to guide you through the new updated prolouge!
Monic Rambeau 1982 5* Captain Marvel to rule them all!
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The reason Carol will be meta-defining and awesome is MPQ Law (similar to Murphy's Law).
I will be burning every LT and CP I get trying to get Kitty as well-covered as I can before she leaves the Latest Legends vault (it's not going well so far, with over 220 pulls I only have her at 1/3/4). This means my hoard will not be very sizable when 5-star Carol arrives and I won't be able to fully cover her either, so of course she will be a meta-defining super-awesome character that I miss out on (the same thing happened with Gambit & Thor).
No one can argue with this empirical evidence.12 -
All of the mcu/tv characters have been meta just about in 5 land.
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If she joins the game, I expect Skrull goons.
And that could be great.0 -
Here your consolation prize: If she will be a meta-defining and awesome, she will be short lived and nerfed in a couple of months, so you won't miss anything LOLDormammu said:The reason Carol will be meta-defining and awesome is MPQ Law (similar to Murphy's Law).
I will be burning every LT and CP I get trying to get Kitty as well-covered as I can before she leaves the Latest Legends vault (it's not going well so far, with over 220 pulls I only have her at 1/3/4). This means my hoard will not be very sizable when 5-star Carol arrives and I won't be able to fully cover her either, so of course she will be a meta-defining super-awesome character that I miss out on (the same thing happened with Gambit & Thor).
No one can argue with this empirical evidence.
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Nope, they wait until all the spending has dried up before nerfing....WEBGAS said:
Here your consolation prize: If she will be a meta-defining and awesome, she will be short lived and nerfed in a couple of months, so you won't miss anything LOLDormammu said:The reason Carol will be meta-defining and awesome is MPQ Law (similar to Murphy's Law).
I will be burning every LT and CP I get trying to get Kitty as well-covered as I can before she leaves the Latest Legends vault (it's not going well so far, with over 220 pulls I only have her at 1/3/4). This means my hoard will not be very sizable when 5-star Carol arrives and I won't be able to fully cover her either, so of course she will be a meta-defining super-awesome character that I miss out on (the same thing happened with Gambit & Thor).
No one can argue with this empirical evidence.0 -
It is a pity because I would love to get Cable, but I am quite confident Carol is going to kick **** SERIOUSLY, so I will go for Kp, God Emperor Doom (**** yes!) and her. And you will ask how I know that? Well, it is obviously because she is not just a kick **** character, she is now also a super saiyan!
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I am considering skipping Kingpin, at least until we know who ill replace him.Polares said:It is a pity because I would love to get Cable, but I am quite confident Carol is going to kick tinykitty SERIOUSLY, so I will go for Kp, God Emperor Doom (tinykitty yes!) and her. And you will ask how I know that? Well, it is obviously because she is not just a kick tinykitty character, she is now also a super saiyan!
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Quebbster said:
I am considering skipping Kingpin, at least until we know who ill replace him.Polares said:It is a pity because I would love to get Cable, but I am quite confident Carol is going to kick tinykitty SERIOUSLY, so I will go for Kp, God Emperor Doom (tinykitty yes!) and her. And you will ask how I know that? Well, it is obviously because she is not just a kick tinykitty character, she is now also a super saiyan!Probably a safe bet that Doom, Carol and Endgame will be better than the first two and Kingpin.Even though we don't know that Carol will be meta or good, we do know that Fisk is bad,0 -
That’s a shame about Kingpin. Think I’ll go back to pulling classics.0
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I just want to bump this and say that based on the small bit of info we have in this video:it is hard to see Marvel as meta. Her costs seems reasonable at 8/0/8 (though in a Cable preview video I believe his costs were 7/7/7 and we know that was changed before release). But, she has complete cover overlap with Thor, and in the event that they have great synergy, she could very possibly only tank red for him.We still need numbers, but I'm sticking with my original assessment. Hope I'm wrong though!
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Going frame by frame, you can see that "Got your 6" yellow power sends her and Coulson airborne, Fury stayed on the ground.And her Green changes from Event Horizon to Photonic Rush, which costs 10 ap in the video.Just based on the mass cross promotion, I would assume she's mid tier at best. But who knows0
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It'll come down to her passive elements. Kitty's vital power technically costs 8 yellow, and Thor's costs 12 green - it's just that the most important parts cost zero.
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5* Captain Marvel and 4* Talos coming to you on 28th Feb and 14th March respectively.
I see red and green 3-turn repeater tiles, and also red strike tiles on the board.
Someone mentioned about Captain Marvel and 1 teammate going airborne. ArchAngel to clip their wings?0
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