Soft cap and PVP

truedimtruedim Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
Hi! This is my first post on the forum and I want to share some information for newbies.

I'm F2P player and decided to softcap my roster 70 days ago, here the results of my experiment:

1) 49 roster slots
2) All 2* and 3* (except Strange, KK, IM40) have level 40
3) Strange, KK, IM40 have level 70 and fully covered
4) Five 2* maxchamped, sold, and rerostered (using saved covers)
5) Some 4* top-tier characters are rostered: Vulture, Carol, Iceman

The tactic is very simple - since the loaner character has higher level than my Strange and IM40 (even if they are weekly boosted), he tanks many colors and usually absorbs all given damage.

1) I can easily reach 75+ wins (sometimes 100+) without using health packs - it provides many 2* covers.
2) Usually have 650-750 point in PVP, top 25 in SCL6 (four 3* covers and 150hp + 50hp for top 250 alliance)
3) Many defensive wins since many opponents are usually very weak (undercovered but boosted 2*)
4) Sometimes I play in SCL7 if I need specific 4* cover
5) I expect to fully cover my first 4* (Vulture) soon (using command points and BH)

In the current PVP with 4* Spider-Man I reached 75 wins 48 hours before the end of the event, total number of wins in the previous PVP (Luke Cage 3*) is 130.

Now I have many 3* with a decent number of covers, so I can use my character instead the loaner to confuse my opponents even more :)

I almost am sure that it is a fastest way (in sense of playing time, not days) to build the roster for F2P player.

As a drawback, I can play only SCL4 PVE (usually SCL3) and have problems in boss events.








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Comments

  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 2,186 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm curious and I have a few questions:

    1) What's your SHIELD Rank?

    2) Wouldn't doing this stun your progress?

    3) Are you planning to hoard and unload when you think the time is right?
  • truedimtruedim Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
    edited December 2018
    Current rank is 42, some time ago I used 1* tokens to reach rank 32 to be able to get top-tier 4* from SCL7 PVP progression. I still haven't decided what to do next, it seems that at the current stage there are no reason to level up my heroes. My progress now manily limited by roster slots. For example, I have 12 4* tokens that I have to sell.  I will see what happens when I fully cover all 3* and switch from Strange and IM40 to some fully covered 4* (Vulture, Iceman?) - it must be funny. By the way, in "12 days of marvel" I fight against 70,69,70 level enemies.

  • jameshjamesh Posts: 1,433 Chairperson of the Boards
    OJSP said:
    2) Wouldn't doing this stunt your progress?
    Why do you think that? His placements seem appropriate, if not better than expected, for his roster and he’s getting all progression rewards from Versus. For Story Mode, until he has all the characters rostered, he won’t be getting decent placement rewards anyway from higher SCLs, so the gain is minimal (if any) for more effort.

    At this stage, it looks like the best way to accummulate HPs for roster slots and a lot of iso.

    I think he’s doing well at this stage.
    He says he's mostly playing SCL 6 in versus, and can only manage SCL 4 in story.  That means he's forgoing 4* covers from progression in both modes.
    It sounds like a decent way to collect 3* covers in versus while you can play in the clearance levels locked out for more developed players.  But at some point he'll be forced out of SCL 6 in versus, at which point it will be much harder to depend on placement rewards.
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 2,186 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2018
    He's doing well for PvP, without a doubt. As for PvE, I was thinking he's missing out on 20 CP from PvE sometimes because he plays SCL 3 usually. Players start getting CP from progression in SCL 4. 

    I'm wondering if this is your second account? Are you facing 5* with a single cover in PvP?

    Lastly, thanks for sharing your experience and it's helpful to understand how MMR are made. I feel like making another new MPQ account to right all the mistakes I made. :'(
  • truedimtruedim Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
    edited December 2018

    I'm wondering if this is your second account? Are you facing 5* with a single cover in PvP?

    I have another account with several 4* champed, but I can say that it is more interesting to play in the current one...
    I am facing 5* with a single cover and just skip them  because I don't like big match damage and I can easily find other opponents (at least if I have <800 points). Frequently I see defensive wins from such 5*  :)

    Since I usually have a required 3* character for PVE, I definitely can complete full progression in SCL4 (6-7 clears per node), but efforts are incomparable with SCL3 and PVP.
  • Daredevil217Daredevil217 Posts: 2,378 Chairperson of the Boards
    There are some who will tell you that softcapping is evil and if you can level up your characters, you should. I’m a firm believer in finding what works for you and your personal goals. The most important thing is if you are having more fun with the softcapped roster than your champed one; absolutely keep doing what you’re doing. The fact remains you can always level up characters later if you ever get bored. That’s pretty much what I did at each tier. Softcapped at every tier, and once I transitioned, I had SEVERAL ready to go. Currently doing that with my fives. 
  • truedimtruedim Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
    edited December 2018
    OJSP said:

    That’s not really an issue for those players anymore because of the introduction of SCLs and elimination of roster based scaling (or at least, softcappers are not gaining too much advantage anymore). 
    I agree, but for newbies (during first 2-3 weeks), or PVP-oriented persons, it is better do not levelup 2* higher than 40-50. Then you can directly switch to fully covered Strange and IM40 (using bonus heroes and CP from PVP), then you have a choice to champ or not to champ. Even if you choose to champ,  Strange+IM40 are way too better than other 3* in PVE  and PVP offense and you can softcap other 2* and 3* (except may be KK for using green from IM40).

    We have five boosted (40->100) 3* every week, so my MMR is usually equal 100. It seems that I can safely level up fully covered top-tier 4* to the level 100 (if I have only few 4* and almost all 3*). I hope that using these 4* and fully covered (but not leveled) loaner 3* I can get top 50 in SCL7 PVP. My shield rank is increased very slowly (mainly when I levelup and sell my 2*), so I have time to build at least two 4*. 

  • bbiglerbbigler Posts: 1,400 Chairperson of the Boards
    This discussion is more about what strategy is best for new players. Should they soft cap 3*s or not? What really matters is your overall progression speed in the game (unless you're literally just playing for fun and don't care about getting stronger champs, but I doubt that). 

    So, soft-capping is helping you in pvp but hurting you in pve? Is that trade off beneficial? I'm certain it is not.  The few extra rewards in pvp don't outweigh the rewards you could be getting in higher pve SCLs. New players should race to build their roster strength so that they can play scl 7. That's when you start getting a lot more 4* covers and CP, which should be hoarded for later progression into the 4* and 5* tier. With proper hoarding, you can jump immediately into 4* play once you're done champing the 3* tier. Delaying 3* champing slows down your overall progression because you're missing out on rewards during your soft cap period. 

    From my own experience, I could play scl 7 in pve and pvp once I had a few good 3* champs. Pvp was not more difficult, but actually easier as I could reach a higher score, which turned into higher ranks and thus better rewards than before. Plus, you can join stronger alliances the stronger you become, thus getting better rewards. All these differences add up over time and allow players to rise above the generation they started in. 

    Is soft-capping evil then? No, it is good in a very specific situation: when you're trying to progress to the next tier but your first fully covered characters in that tier aren't very good. So, you soft-cap until you can enter the tier with some strong champs. But this is not your situation. 
  • truedimtruedim Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
    bbigler said:
     
    Is soft-capping evil then? No, it is good in a very specific situation: when you're trying to progress to the next tier but your first fully covered characters in that tier aren't very good. So, you soft-cap until you can enter the tier with some strong champs. But this is not your situation. 
    The main point is to optimize playing time - like hp/hour or cp/hour, and softcapping is just a tactic. Currently I need 2 hours (4 times per 30 min) to reach 75 wins + 30 minutes at the end of the event (without shields and buying health packs), as a side effect it produces many 2* covers that I can use to farm (for example, over the past 10 days I've got 6 bug-mans, sometimes I think to roster him :)). If I  I levelup my main 3* to level 170  I will completely destroy my PVP, and I am not sure that I can compensate it in SCL5-SCL7 PVE (level 170 is too low to clear nodes fast). I defenetly decrease cp/hour rate. 
     Another big problem is roster slots, currently I have to sell most 4* in any case.


  • truedimtruedim Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
    OJSP said:
    They have 49 slots and presumably not enough iso to max all of their 3*s yet. Even 2* farming is not optimised yet, because they only have 5 2*s at the moment.
    Sorry to mislead you, I have all 2* rostered (except bug-man) from the beginning. I meant that I've already sold several ones with 50 saved covers and roster them again. I have about 2.2 million ISO, so yes, I can't level up all my 3*
  • bbiglerbbigler Posts: 1,400 Chairperson of the Boards
    truedim said:
    The main point is to optimize playing time - like hp/hour or cp/hour, and softcapping is just a tactic. Currently I need 2 hours (4 times per 30 min) to reach 75 wins + 30 minutes at the end of the event (without shields and buying health packs), as a side effect it produces many 2* covers that I can use to farm (for example, over the past 10 days I've got 6 bug-mans, sometimes I think to roster him :)). If I  I levelup my main 3* to level 170  I will completely destroy my PVP, and I am not sure that I can compensate it in SCL5-SCL7 PVE (level 170 is too low to clear nodes fast). I defenetly decrease cp/hour rate. 
     Another big problem is roster slots, currently I have to sell most 4* in any case.


    I entered the 3* tier with Cage, Fist and Switch, and it actually improved my pvp playing time. When going into the 4* tier, it improved again. I know 5* players that can reach 1200 pts in 45 minutes. 2.5 hrs for each pvp is not short. Have you considered playing pvp up to 900 pts or 40 wins? That extra CP from 75 wins will be outweighed by rewards from SCL 7 and 3* champ rewards. 

    With Thanos and Strange, SCL 6 or 7 can be fast, especially if you're just playing for max progression.  Even a half-covered Thanos does a good job. Roster slots are an issue for all new accounts, so hoard LT, CP and even Heroics until you have enough HP to roster new 4*s.

    You can play however you like, but it looks like you're delaying your progress instead of improving it. 
  • truedimtruedim Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
    edited December 2018
     I know 5* players that can reach 1200 pts in 45 minutes. 2.5 hrs for each pvp is not short. Have you considered playing pvp up to 900 pts or 40 wins? That extra CP from 75 wins will be outweighed by rewards from SCL 7 and 3* champ rewards. 

    With Thanos and Strange, SCL 6 or 7 can be fast, especially if you're just playing for max progression.  
    I can reach 700 in PVP in a 45 minutes, but sorry, I don't have champed  5* :) . I had another account with several 4* champed (including Carol) that I developed by standard way and I was in top100 PVE aliance. I had almost the same speed of hp income, but I had to grind more than two times longer (for example, Thanos 170 is too weak for SCL7, you will get a problem with health packs, etc ). At this stage, I can compensate 3* farm by faster 2* farm. It seems that your suggestions are great for those persons that trying to build their roster as fast as possible despite playing time (like me several years ago). 
  • CT1888CT1888 Posts: 1,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    Truedim, well done on finding a way that's working well for you and sharing it.
    Effective, enjoyable and not reliant on pve grinding seems like a win to me. 
  • randomhero1090randomhero1090 Posts: 376 Mover and Shaker
    It's hard to argue with the strategy.

    Personally, I got bored.  I bought HP and opened classics (at the time) to get everyone on the roster so I could do the DDQs, boss events, all PVE nodes, etc.  In the long run it cost me in terms of 5* progress (I missed the Okoye boat) but it also got me into a top 50 PVP & PVE alliance and i'll end up making out once we see 5* Cap Marvel :smiley:

    But again, hard to argue with the strategy.  This game punishes progress (to an extent) and rewards hoarding.
  • DogfaceDogface Posts: 544 Critical Contributor
    I recently began playing Shield Simulator to have something to do while not doing PVE. First time, i got to 2000 fairly easily, picking the right batlles (aka skipping alot ). However, this time it's a lot harder. I got to a point where i encountered the same enemies again and again, even though i skipped them. Taking a break inevitably means getting attacked and losing points, so now i'm relying more on the wins-based safety net.
    When trying to get top end prize, i found it's best if you can manage it in one session. 
  • AardvarkPepperAardvarkPepper Posts: 239 Tile Toppler
    While I was writing a response, I did the math.  Then I did more math.  Then I was like hm.

    At first I was like "no".  But then I was like "hmmm maybe yeah".

    Yeah, playing PvE SCL 3 mostly and 4 only on occasion?  Eurgh.  That doesn't seem like it could be good.

    But . . . 75 wins in PvP?  In 2.5 hours?

    So you gotta think.  If the player pushes their 3*s to champion, then they can do PvE SCL 7.  But their times for PvE and PvP will go up if they do that (and PvP won't go back down).  And the time commitment on that is way higher, like, a lot!

    So "rewards per time earned" . . . I mean the time is a LOT better.  And by hitting 75 wins in PvP the OP is still making CP.

    Sure, giving up the 4* cover in PvE but . . . the time savings is so huge.

    ==

    Now I'm curious to know if the OP's account that he's referencing that's softcapping is in a top 100 PvE / top 100 PvP hybrid alliance.  I'm reading "top 250 PvP" but I don't think so.

    If I remember right (veterans chime in please), you get more points on the Essential nodes, or is only the 5* node, at PvE SCL 8 and/or 9?  As opposed to PvE SCL 7?

    But at SCL 7 and below, I think all the points earned are the same.

    . . . so what we're looking at is full progression on PvE and 650-750 in PvP?  That reads like top 100 PvE / top 100 PvP hybrid alliance to me.  If the OP looks around, that is.

    Sure, the OP would have to merc out for alliance boss events but . . . yeah, it's nice you know?
  • truedimtruedim Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
    edited December 2018


    Now I'm curious to know if the OP's account that he's referencing that's softcapping is in a top 100 PvE / top 100 PvP hybrid alliance.  I'm reading "top 250 PvP" but I don't think so.

    I joined to a random alliance (I only checked that all players are "played today"). Usually alliance is top250 in PVP and PVE, but sometimes top500 :).  It seems that I can join to some top 100 alliance if they are accept that I'm bad in  boss events, but not now (I have to take a break soon).  Some information: last season points is about 8500, my current alliance is "Alazobna", nickname is "ex3m".
  • BlackBoltRocksBlackBoltRocks Posts: 2,288 Chairperson of the Boards
    If I remember right (veterans chime in please), you get more points on the Essential nodes, or is only the 5* node, at PvE SCL 8 and/or 9?  As opposed to PvE SCL 7?

    Yes you do, but only for the 5* essential. The points increase with SCL. So for example the 5* essential node in CL7 will give 200 points; that same node in will give maybe 300 points in CL8, and 400 in CL9.
  • ZootSaxZootSax Posts: 1,709 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yes you do, but only for the 5* essential. The points increase with SCL. So for example the 5* essential node in CL7 will give 200 points; that same node in will give maybe 300 points in CL8, and 400 in CL9.
    @BlackBoltRocks is correct, but his point distributions are very approximated.  As a rule of thumb, the CL7 5* node is approximately the same as a trivial node in points, while in CL9 it's closer to the 4* essential or highest (non-wave) hard node in points.  Doing 4x clears as opposed to 5x in CL9 should get you progression (or at least very close to it).  Doing the same in CL7 won't come close to that.
  • mpqavsmpqavsmpqavsmpqavs Posts: 51 Match Maker
    I wrote this because i faced ex3m a lot of time in pvp.i faced ex3m more than 30-40 times in my mpq career.he attacked me back also a lot of time. I am a day 69 player.
    Have 41 roster slots.no money spending till now.all 2* rostered.now rostering 3*.have strange and im40 fully covered and  at level 90.
    Now i know why ex3m have always 35+ point value in pvp.any way i am happy because its the first time i get to know about an opponent whom i played against.
    So will be looking for ex3m to attack and getting attacked back.😉😃😄😉.
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