Bishop (Classic) (11/13/18)

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Comments

  • WEBGASWEBGAS Posts: 449 Mover and Shaker
    Once in 5stars land, every 4stars new release is pratically useless.
    Beside Cap.Marvel, medusa, Grocket+Gamora and Chavez, you won't use any of all the others unless they are essential in some PVE nodes.
    If Bishop has been made as a 5stars character, he could have been great, but as a 4stars.... :s

    Furthermore, we don't need another hero....all we need is new storymodes, not the same old, same old.
    We need a PVE system based an progression rewards (just like Places of Power).
    Leave the placement for PVP and free ourselves from grinding over the same nodes everyday.
    After 4years (and more) of playing this game, I am quite bored  :/
  • jameshjamesh Posts: 1,362 Chairperson of the Boards
    KGB said:
    jamesh said:
    Brigby said:

    Will the overclocked passives bounce back?  You do damage to the opposing teams team mate.  Bishop takes damage, and sends his damage back.  Your bishop intervenes and sends damage back to the opposing bishop who is now in front and he gains 5 blue AP from General reserves?   
    Correction: Bishop's Passive does trigger the enemy Bishop's Passive, and vice versa. 
    Does it trigger immediately (e.g. like Captain Marvel's Energy Manipulation), or does it wait until the start of your turn (e.g. like Mockingbird's Opportunist)?
    If it is immediate, the first versus event is going to be interesting.  Once one of the two low level loaner Bishops hits the threshold, their Overclocked attack will trigger Overclocked in the enemy Bishop, ping-ponging within the same turn until one of them dies.  At the same time, they'd both be generating blue AP.
    It'll be less crazy if the Overclocked attack waits until the start of the player's turn since that would let the player cancel out the enemy attack with a stun.
    I don't think the Red ping-pongs until one Bishop is dead.

    The way I read the Red is that it only activates when a team mate would take damage and he jumps in front to absorb it similar to how 3* deadpool works.

    So what happens is Team X fires a power against Team Y with Bishop not in front. Team Y Bishop jumps to front, eats the damage and deals damage to Team X. If Team X has Bishop in front then his Blue passive activates and that's it. If team X has a non-Bishop in front then Team X Bishop jumps to front and eats the retal damage and deals his own retal damage to Team Y Bishop. But it all ends there since both Bishops are in front (Note it's possible the Blue passive will trigger on both Bishops so both teams would generate Blue AP but they may not allow that double dipping if the Red passive activates).

    KGB
    That isn't how I read the power description.  To me, it looks like there are two independent parts of this ability:
    1. If an ally would take damage above a threshold, Bishop is targeted instead.
    2. Once Bishop accumulates a certain amount of damage, he makes his own attack.
    There's nothing in the power description that indicates (2) won't account for damage while he's already in front.
    As for things going crazy in the release PVP tournament, it looks like it won't ping-pong for players using the loaner: with a single red cover, Overclocked only deals half the threshold damage.  It's only when you have 4+ red covers before you deal more damage than the attack threshold.
    It could be quite different if they redo the tournament later once people have had a chance to champ the character.
  • KenshinUKKenshinUK Posts: 71 Match Maker
    That feel when Emma is your highest covered essential...
    One of these days i'll be able to complete shield training.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 2,843 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well I guess the good news is that even if your loaner Bishop gets beaten up in his PvP, as long as he isn't one-shotted he should at least actually help by doing some damage and/or getting some AP for the team. He might then immediately die but hey better than most loaners, silver linings!
  • LavaManLeeLavaManLee Posts: 323 Mover and Shaker
    @Brigby, any word on why Emma Frost again?  Is someone on the dev team madly in love with her character?
  • brollbroll Posts: 4,609 Chairperson of the Boards
    Brigby said:
    Thanos said:
    Brigby Will he make it into next seasons tokens?
    My guess is that it's too close to the start of the next season for Bishop to make it into tokens in time.
    If that's true please remind the team not to throw him in a SHIELD training until he's in tokens since you guys are back to throwing a lot of latest in there again.
  • gentgeengentgeen Posts: 88 Match Maker
    Now with Bishop, we have gotten 17 new 4* characters in the last 365 days.  (Hulk released 11/15/17 - and not counting Taskmaster since he is a 'limited' ).   Of those 17 new characters, ONLY Nebula does not have a passive.  

    The trend of Passive is really getting old IMHO -- and the number of passives added on like Bishop's that basically give the character a 4th power also seems to be running rampid.  At least in the past the benefit of a passive was countered with the LOSS of one of the 3 power.  



  • zodiac339zodiac339 Posts: 1,898 Chairperson of the Boards
    Looking forward to hilarious “jump in front” interactions to bug out.
    Thing/Bishop. Target Thing with big attack. Bishop jumps up to take the hit. Thing jumps up after the fact and throws down protect tiles. Player scratches head and wonders, “Should I report this on the forum?”
  • StraycatStraycat Posts: 961 Critical Contributor
    gentgeen said:
    Of those 17 new characters, ONLY Nebula does not have a passive.  

    The trend of Passive is really getting old IMHO -- and the number of passives added on like Bishop's that basically give the character a 4th power also seems to be running rampid.  At least in the past the benefit of a passive was countered with the LOSS of one of the 3 power. 

    This is another form of power creep. If characters aren't getting stronger, they are getting more complex. 2 stage powers were seen as 5* abilities, like OML or Phoenix. But as they added more characters, they had to start giving passives to keep them interesting. After Coulson, having 3 actives and 3 passives, I stopped looking at it that way.  But I don't have a problem with it, characters are still balanced regardless. Bishop's yellow is expensive and conditional, so it needs its passive. The red and blue work well together, if you are trying to avoid setting off his blue his red is there to take it anyways.

    JSP869 said:
    Brigby said:

    General Reserves - bluetilepng Passive
    With every injury, Bishop grows stronger. If Bishop takes 451 or more damage, gain 5 Blue AP. 
    A 5* deals this much in match damage alone.

    Can the passive proc multiple times off one cascade?

    If so, that's ploughing OP.
    Not sure how it works, but his passive shuts off after 10 ap. So in a 3+ cascade, it should trigger twice, his blue transforms to energy conversion, then the rest of the cascade goes and he doesn't generate anymore AP. Then his red counterattack fires, and his active blue fires. He goes back to general reserves, rinse, and repeat. Tho he'd likely be downed before it repeats.
  • zodiac339zodiac339 Posts: 1,898 Chairperson of the Boards
    It took me a bit to realize the wording on his yellow is to covert enemy “special” tiles, not attack/strike/protect tiles. If he’s also converting countdown and invisible tiles, it would explain why the protect tiles he makes have a specific value.
  • nippynippy Posts: 30 Just Dropped In
    Can't wait for Bishop Ping Pong... we need PvP with Bishop    :D :D
  • KGBKGB Posts: 712 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2018
    jamesh said:
    KGB said:
    jamesh said:
    Brigby said:

    Will the overclocked passives bounce back?  You do damage to the opposing teams team mate.  Bishop takes damage, and sends his damage back.  Your bishop intervenes and sends damage back to the opposing bishop who is now in front and he gains 5 blue AP from General reserves?   
    Correction: Bishop's Passive does trigger the enemy Bishop's Passive, and vice versa. 
    Does it trigger immediately (e.g. like Captain Marvel's Energy Manipulation), or does it wait until the start of your turn (e.g. like Mockingbird's Opportunist)?
    If it is immediate, the first versus event is going to be interesting.  Once one of the two low level loaner Bishops hits the threshold, their Overclocked attack will trigger Overclocked in the enemy Bishop, ping-ponging within the same turn until one of them dies.  At the same time, they'd both be generating blue AP.
    It'll be less crazy if the Overclocked attack waits until the start of the player's turn since that would let the player cancel out the enemy attack with a stun.
    I don't think the Red ping-pongs until one Bishop is dead.

    The way I read the Red is that it only activates when a team mate would take damage and he jumps in front to absorb it similar to how 3* deadpool works.

    So what happens is Team X fires a power against Team Y with Bishop not in front. Team Y Bishop jumps to front, eats the damage and deals damage to Team X. If Team X has Bishop in front then his Blue passive activates and that's it. If team X has a non-Bishop in front then Team X Bishop jumps to front and eats the retal damage and deals his own retal damage to Team Y Bishop. But it all ends there since both Bishops are in front (Note it's possible the Blue passive will trigger on both Bishops so both teams would generate Blue AP but they may not allow that double dipping if the Red passive activates).

    KGB
    That isn't how I read the power description.  To me, it looks like there are two independent parts of this ability:
    1. If an ally would take damage above a threshold, Bishop is targeted instead.
    2. Once Bishop accumulates a certain amount of damage, he makes his own attack.
    There's nothing in the power description that indicates (2) won't account for damage while he's already in front.
    As for things going crazy in the release PVP tournament, it looks like it won't ping-pong for players using the loaner: with a single red cover, Overclocked only deals half the threshold damage.  It's only when you have 4+ red covers before you deal more damage than the attack threshold.
    It could be quite different if they redo the tournament later once people have had a chance to champ the character.
    It would be strange if it worked the way you say for 2 reasons:
    1) The obvious cycle of death you mentioned once the first player fires a power that starts the cycle. No way they missed that during testing. That cycle would be even crazier if XPool was on both teams with his Black triggering endlessly as well each time Bishops Red triggered.
    2) His Blue power already covers the case of him being in front and taking damage (gains Blue AP from it) so he would be double dipping on damage. If that was the case why not write that 2nd part of the Red power directly into the Blue power. Especially since Brigby already clarified his Blue is cumulative (ie take 100 this turn, only need 351 more for Blue passive to trigger) and (presumably the Red damage is cumulative too).


    KGB
  • RosrafRosraf Posts: 16 Just Dropped In
    Hmmm. Just like with XFDP, his retaliation hits will get hugely disproportionate when teamed with Okoye. 

    And if Bishop and XFDP are on the same team, they will BOTH retaliate on any big hits. 

    Lastly, his stun is good, but also use him to tank for Iceman and seem like you will get stuns and snowman punches real cheap, really fast. 
  • jameshjamesh Posts: 1,362 Chairperson of the Boards
    I guess we'll be able to find out in ~ 10.5 hours when SHIELD Training opens and we can experiment with the first node.  A summary of what I want to verify is:
    • Does Bishop's red count damage accumulated while he is in front (including small match damage)?
    • Does Bishop's red attack fire immediately, or wait until the start of his turn?  This would be obvious if he's pushed over the threshold by the enemy firing a power: does he attack immediately, or after they make a match?
    • Does Bishop's red count damage accumulated while he is stunned?
    The last one might have to wait for the PVE tournament though.
  • MirrorKnightMirrorKnight Posts: 51 Match Maker
    Can Overclocked trigger more than once per combat?
  • jameshjamesh Posts: 1,362 Chairperson of the Boards
    Okay, so Overclocked counts all damage done to Bishop, rather than just damage when the passive causes him to jump to the front.  The Overclocked attack also fires immediately rather than waiting.

    So now I'm really interested to see what a mirror match between fully covered Bishops will look like.

  • AlexNapalmAlexNapalm Posts: 107 Tile Toppler
    Rosraf said:
    Hmmm. Just like with XFDP, his retaliation hits will get hugely disproportionate when teamed with Okoye. 

    And if Bishop and XFDP are on the same team, they will BOTH retaliate on any big hits. 

    Lastly, his stun is good, but also use him to tank for Iceman and seem like you will get stuns and snowman punches real cheap, really fast. 
    The only downside with using Bishop and Okoye would be Bishop jumping to the front and triggering Wakanda Forever thereby lowering your team up AP. Still, if you're collecting enough TU AP, things should end pretty fast. 
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 2,725 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2018
    First impressions of Bishop:
    · His actual cover in the roster screen is fun (got a red one from ST)
    · Animations were a little weak
    · Cheap stun was reasonably effective on blue
    · In the Shield Training loaner matchup, I was completely unable to fire off his yellow due to board conditions never being met - seems like this would have been a place where Carnage would finally have been appropriate even though he has been a slayer of new releases in past shield trainings
    · I didn't see any particular synergy with the required wingmen here, and as is so often the case Bishop died mid-match and left the rest to a lvl 217 Bl4de and 273 Frost to finish up

    *edit* - I went back and played again, specifically letting Angel live long enough to make some specials this time - it would be really nice if Bishop had some sort of health regen ability, maybe tied to that Yellow like a reverse DareDevil (Matt Murdock) - every time he removes the protect tiles he gets some health back. He seems like a guaranteed health pack burn at this moment to me
  • StraycatStraycat Posts: 961 Critical Contributor
    In his loaner node I got his red to counterattack 3 times, and his blue to stun 3 times. I wasn't 100% paying attention to how he was working, I don't think he jumped to the front at all. But he was doing something out there. Looks like a fun character.
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