emma frost, again...

DAZ0273

tiomono said:

broll said:


This the 2nd worst example of how bad their management of the game is.  I'll give you 1 guess what the 1st is...

My guess is not putting supports into pvp yet.....

Not releasing more Supports!

DAZ0273

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I think you could easily make the case that vets have a higher chance of getting a new release to 10 covers in enough time than new players do, since they're earning the rewards it takes to pull legendary enough that bonus covers are a viable factor for them. Also they're more likely to be starting ahead with a decently covered character coming out of a release event. Even being 4-6 covers up is huge if you "only" need to get to 10 to be eligible for training. Since Shield Training got into regular rotation, I've personally decided I wanted to make my roster ST proof, so I've just been strategically bonus heroing 4*s that are unfed until they get to 10 while grinding feeder 3*s to push over those as well. I now just need 1 more nebula (2/2/5, current 4* bh) and 1 more EB Venom (4/4/1, 12 more Lokis), and it'll just be Domino (0/2/3), Taskmaster (1/2/2), and Bishop (1/0/0) that aren't eligible for it.

Would I like to be doing other things with my bonus heroes? Sure, I'm pretty curious about just parking it on a 5* feeder to try and push over one of my better covered 5s. At some point, maybe I'll decide that cover from shield training isn't worth as much to me as that and let it drop. It's just a strategic roster building choice I'll need to make for myself, because that is the game. When content comes and goes on a real world calendar, all you can do is try to hedge your bets on something, and if it happens for you, great, and if not, something else will come along (eventually) that you are prepared for. A stopped clock is right twice a day and all that...

I could probably have bonus hero'ed Emma to 10 covers but as I was chasing Valkyrie I stuck with her when I opened my stuff on "Happy Cable Day". I ended up champing Valk with extra covers to boot so I'm pretty happy with my decision and missing out on one new cover here doesn't bother me. I have Blade at 209 and could have taken Agent Venom there too but I guess I also get to use that iso elsewhere.

I don't think though that over reliance on Bonus Heroes for S.H.I.E.L.D. Training is a tactic I would want the game to force players to embrace.

bbigler

With my new roster, I have Emma at 11 covers right now, but blade is at 4 covers and venom at 7. If Emma was a better character, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. I want more Dazzler covers, or even Nebula. 

Team_Jacob

I ended up entering unstable iso really late and squeaking out a top ten finish just to make sure that I got the covers for her, she's now 10/3/2. Damnedest distribution of covers, considering I've mainly gotten them from events. 

Is anyone still tracking which 4* are classified as latest legends? It would be nice to get on top of that situation.

Quebbster

Team_Jacob said:

I ended up entering unstable iso really late and squeaking out a top ten finish just to make sure that I got the covers for her, she's now 10/3/2. Damnedest distribution of covers, considering I've mainly gotten them from events. 

Is anyone still tracking which 4* are classified as latest legends? It would be nice to get on top of that situation.

There is no separation between latest and Classic fourstars anymore, they are all equally common in tokens now.

ThaRoadWarrior

DAZ0273 said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

...reliance on Bonus Heroes for S.H.I.E.L.D. Training is a tactic I would want the game to force players to embrace.

You really can't get anywhere in this game until you have a complete roster, so this isn't fundamentally different than any other required character node in my opinion. I don't see too many people complaining about not having enough covers to complete a crash for an LT, which is reasonably comparable to Shield Training in my opinion. Or rather, people complain, but they aren't mad at the game for not giving them the covers they need in time for the crash that I see.

n25philly

HoundofShadow said:

Let's look at facts again:

Emma was released on 26 July 2018.

1. 26 Jul
3 covers from pve placement
1 cover from pve alliance placement
2 covers from PvP placement
1 cover from shield training

2. 29 Jul
1 cover from pve progression reward
1 cover from pvp progression reward

3. 10 Sep
3 covers from pve placement
1 cover from pve alliance placement

4. 13 Sep
2 covers from pve progression reward

5. 1 Oct
3 covers from pve placement
1 cover from pve alliance placement

6. 21 Oct
3 covers from pve placement
1 cover from pve alliance placement

7. 25 Oct
1 cover from pve progression reward

8. 6 Nov
2 covers from PvP placement

9. 8 Nov
1 cover from pvp progression reward

10. 11 Nov
3 covers from pve placement
1 cover from pve alliance placement

11. 15 Nov
1 cover from pve progression reward

There's a total of 32 covers. 7 comes from progression. 

and thinking most people come close to getting all of those is extremely unrealistic.

DAZ0273

bbigler said:

With my new roster, I have Emma at 11 covers right now, but blade is at 4 covers and venom at 7. If Emma was a better character, then we wouldn't be ha

ThaRoadWarrior said:

DAZ0273 said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

...reliance on Bonus Heroes for S.H.I.E.L.D. Training is a tactic I would want the game to force players to embrace.

You really can't get anywhere in this game until you have a complete roster, so this isn't fundamentally different than any other required character node in my opinion. I don't see too many people complaining about not having enough covers to complete a crash for an LT, which is reasonably comparable to Shield Training in my opinion. Or rather, people complain, but they aren't mad at the game for not giving them the covers they need in time for the crash that I see.

I don't think Crash is the same. The reason I say that is you are earning an LT which does not guarantee you the ability to compete in another event like earning a cover for the character who is the next Essential does.

But eh, no really biggy to me personally.

MrKasady

TeamStewie said:

Gold_Dragon said:

You’ve all had AMPLE enough time to get enough covers. You shouldn’t be complaining about the devs. 

You should be complaining about your own incompetence. 

Most of us aren't complaining because we don't have the covers. We're complaining because we are bored out of our mind of her and she stinks.

THIS exactly. There are SO many characters available now but yet it feels like Frost has been featured in something every other week.

n25philly

DAZ0273 said:

bbigler said:

With my new roster, I have Emma at 11 covers right now, but blade is at 4 covers and venom at 7. If Emma was a better character, then we wouldn't be ha

ThaRoadWarrior said:

DAZ0273 said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

...reliance on Bonus Heroes for S.H.I.E.L.D. Training is a tactic I would want the game to force players to embrace.

You really can't get anywhere in this game until you have a complete roster, so this isn't fundamentally different than any other required character node in my opinion. I don't see too many people complaining about not having enough covers to complete a crash for an LT, which is reasonably comparable to Shield Training in my opinion. Or rather, people complain, but they aren't mad at the game for not giving them the covers they need in time for the crash that I see.

I don't think Crash is the same. The reason I say that is you are earning an LT which does not guarantee you the ability to compete in another event like earning a cover for the character who is the next Essential does.

But eh, no really biggy to me personally.

To add to that, crashes typically don't come up so fast after a character is released.  Also, there is no requirement for what lvl a character has to be to participate.  I've won plenty with characters way less than lvl 209.

DAZ0273

n25philly said:

DAZ0273 said:

bbigler said:

With my new roster, I have Emma at 11 covers right now, but blade is at 4 covers and venom at 7. If Emma was a better character, then we wouldn't be ha

ThaRoadWarrior said:

DAZ0273 said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

...reliance on Bonus Heroes for S.H.I.E.L.D. Training is a tactic I would want the game to force players to embrace.

You really can't get anywhere in this game until you have a complete roster, so this isn't fundamentally different than any other required character node in my opinion. I don't see too many people complaining about not having enough covers to complete a crash for an LT, which is reasonably comparable to Shield Training in my opinion. Or rather, people complain, but they aren't mad at the game for not giving them the covers they need in time for the crash that I see.

I don't think Crash is the same. The reason I say that is you are earning an LT which does not guarantee you the ability to compete in another event like earning a cover for the character who is the next Essential does.

But eh, no really biggy to me personally.

To add to that, crashes typically don't come up so fast after a character is released.  Also, there is no requirement for what lvl a character has to be to participate.  I've won plenty with characters way less than lvl 209.

This is also all true. Typically many crashes can be won with characters in the 140's and of course even lower for invisible characters.

nippy

I was going to let emma rot in lvl209 purgatory but the extra 10 covers, won me over to champing her.  But i HATE to champ her...   they need to nerf her even more then let her feed to cable

HoundofShadow

The point of posting the Emma availability since her release is to show that different players are going to get different number of covers for her, depending on how competitive they are. The first PvE for new 4* characters cover won in placement are generous: top 50 in SCL 6 all the way to top 200 in SCL 9.

If you have trouble hitting 7 progression covers, you are:

1) probably busy with your real life stuff
2) still in 3* land or lower
3) a really casual player

If you are slightly competitive, I think you have no problem hitting 9 to 10 covers.

There got to be some kind of separation between competitive players and non-competitive player, in terms of cover spreads and rewards. Non-competitive players are guaranteed a total of 6 to 7 covers from progression rewards in pve and pvp, which is about half of a fully covered characters.

As for Emma, she's not the greatest 4*, neither is she the worst. The reasons she receiving so much dislike are because she is not fast and she's a support character. She's not R4G, nor is she America Chavez. All her repeaters take two turns to activate. I think she's more suitable for players who are interested in different variety of strategies or playstyles, rather than power moves after power moves.

As for comparing the Crash with Shield Training, the rewards in shield training easily overshadow that of crash. I think the reason why they put a minimum level in Shield training is so that players or rather vets don't softcap their characters.

ThaRoadWarrior

the Crash isn't exactly the same, but people just seem personally offended by Shield Training as if there weren't 2-3 other concurrent ways to get that new character cover running at the same time. I suppose I'm one of the "haves" at this point rather than being a "have-not," but I've made long-term strategy choices to make that the case which anybody could have done. 
http://read.gov/aesop/052.html

broll

HoundofShadow said:

There got to be some kind of separation between competitive players and non-competitive player, in terms of cover spreads and rewards. Non-competitive players are guaranteed a total of 6 to 7 covers from progression rewards in pve and pvp, which is about half of a fully covered characters.

Uh, yeah you posted the spread.  0-32 covers for the 4*s not to mention the other rewards people get or don't get.  Don't act like SHIELD training is the one thing holding back the casuals from overcoming the competative.   

Ylva

Speaking as a more casual, 3* player, I find it just....boring?  It's not about competitiveness or having enough covers or whatever, it's just...oh, again?  I've only been at this a few months and I have to keep seeing the same character too many times.  I'm also not a completionist, so I don't care to cover everyone and have no intention of rostering Emma for events or otherwise so, it's just...boring to see her again.

DAZ0273

HoundofShadow said:

The point of posting the Emma availability since her release is to show that different players are going to get different number of covers for her, depending on how competitive they are. The first PvE for new 4* characters cover won in placement are generous: top 50 in SCL 6 all the way to top 200 in SCL 9.

If you have trouble hitting 7 progression covers, you are:

1) probably busy with your real life stuff
2) still in 3* land or lower
3) a really casual player

If you are slightly competitive, I think you have no problem hitting 9 to 10 covers.

There got to be some kind of separation between competitive players and non-competitive player, in terms of cover spreads and rewards. Non-competitive players are guaranteed a total of 6 to 7 covers from progression rewards in pve and pvp, which is about half of a fully covered characters.

As for Emma, she's not the greatest 4*, neither is she the worst. The reasons she receiving so much dislike are because she is not fast and she's a support character. She's not R4G, nor is she America Chavez. All her repeaters take two turns to activate. I think she's more suitable for players who are interested in different variety of strategies or playstyles, rather than power moves after power moves.

As for comparing the Crash with Shield Training, the rewards in shield training easily overshadow that of crash. I think the reason why they put a minimum level in Shield training is so that players or rather vets don't softcap their characters.

4) Not really excited by the character?

Jaedenkaal

DAZ0273 said:

HoundofShadow said:

...
If you have trouble hitting 7 progression covers, you are:

1) probably busy with your real life stuff
2) still in 3* land or lower
3) a really casual player
...

4) Not really excited by the character?

Sure, but that sounds more like a personal decision than a gameplay difficulty issue.

broll

Jaedenkaal said:

DAZ0273 said:

HoundofShadow said:

...
If you have trouble hitting 7 progression covers, you are:

1) probably busy with your real life stuff
2) still in 3* land or lower
3) a really casual player
...

4) Not really excited by the character?

Sure, but that sounds more like a personal decision than a gameplay difficulty issue.

I'd agree if she was just in one SHIELD training, but 2 in a row is a game play issue having reasonable variety.  They have 75 4*s, you'd think they could have 2 sets of 3 with none repeating....  Even if they wanted to keep the focus on 1 new they could have done Dazzler or Ghost, or someone else recent.

tiomono

broll said:

Jaedenkaal said:

DAZ0273 said:

HoundofShadow said:

...
If you have trouble hitting 7 progression covers, you are:

1) probably busy with your real life stuff
2) still in 3* land or lower
3) a really casual player
...

4) Not really excited by the character?

Sure, but that sounds more like a personal decision than a gameplay difficulty issue.

I'd agree if she was just in one SHIELD training, but 2 in a row is a game play issue having reasonable variety.  They have 75 4*s, you'd think they could have 2 sets of 3 with none repeating....  Even if they wanted to keep the focus on 1 new they could have done Dazzler or Ghost, or someone else recent.

Had they used dazzler it would have actually been 2 in a row for dazzler.

Emma is not 2 in a row but is definitely being used alot. Her last time in I just got her to 10 covers during the event. Now she will be at 14 covers for me after I get her from the progression reward on the current story mode. 

It honestly does not matter who they use. Someone will complain regardless of what they do. So they may as well just keep throwing darts at the board to decide what to do while maintaining their amazing radio silence.