Boycott HoR

24

Comments

  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
    span_argoman said:
    Brakkis said:
    HarryMason said:
    The operative word is free . We're complaining about free stuff. There are plenty of issues I would consider more pressing than rewards . Replace the sweet sweet hou packs with m19 and the rewards would still be booty , but it's free booty . People are talking about boycotting free stuff. That's like boycotting the soup kitchen. You're not hurting the soup kitchen. This is sad. 

    If enough people stop going to the soup kitchen, the soup kitchen stops operating.

    tinykitty soup will make people stop getting soup.

    We don't want the soup kitchen to shut down. We don't even want them to give out more soup. We want tastier soup.
    It's a soup kitchen, not a 3-star Michelin restaurant. People who need soup will still go to the soup kitchen cause they need it for sustenance. In real life, asking for tastier soup from the soup kitchen serving it free would just get you weird looks at best.

    Having worked at a soup kitchen, if someone asks for tastier soup, we'll go add some spices to it.

    They don't come just for sustenance. They could eat paste and get that. They also want some damn flavor.
  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
    Brakkis said:

    I find it sadder that people valiantly defend a tinykitty rewards structure simply because it has the free tag on it. Free doesn't mean it has to be tinykitty quality. Especially if you have to work towards earning that "free" stuff. Time isn't free. When the rewards aren't worth the effort, why put in the effort. In most cases, people will simply leave and go put that effort into something with superior rewards. The same can be done here. People could move on to better games with better rewards. They aren't doing that because they want this game to succeed and thus, are complaining about it's faults in order to get them fixed. If no one complains, nothing gets changed. And when the game is this riddled with bugs, errors, and poor event structure and rewards, it needs to be fixed.
    There's no need to be abusive to people who disagree with you. If I wanted to behave the same as you did, I would say I find it sad that people repeatedly whine about free stuff in a mobile game. All the time.

    People want more stuff and things to do in the game. Some may be fine with having a multitude of things to do and not feel pressured to do everything. Some people want all stuff in the game to cater to their preferences. I don't think that in any way means the latter group wants the game to succeed more than the former.

    As I recall someone who used to post on these forums saying, if you don't like it you don't have to play it. You're the one making yourself miserable by forcing yourself to play it to whatever artificial standards you decide upon.

    And like you pointed out, there are more urgent things to be fixed than this.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    Brakkis said:
    span_argoman said:
    Brakkis said:
    HarryMason said:
    The operative word is free . We're complaining about free stuff. There are plenty of issues I would consider more pressing than rewards . Replace the sweet sweet hou packs with m19 and the rewards would still be booty , but it's free booty . People are talking about boycotting free stuff. That's like boycotting the soup kitchen. You're not hurting the soup kitchen. This is sad. 

    If enough people stop going to the soup kitchen, the soup kitchen stops operating.

    tinykitty soup will make people stop getting soup.

    We don't want the soup kitchen to shut down. We don't even want them to give out more soup. We want tastier soup.
    It's a soup kitchen, not a 3-star Michelin restaurant. People who need soup will still go to the soup kitchen cause they need it for sustenance. In real life, asking for tastier soup from the soup kitchen serving it free would just get you weird looks at best.

    Having worked at a soup kitchen, if someone asks for tastier soup, we'll go add some spices to it.

    They don't come just for sustenance. They could eat paste and get that. They also want some damn flavor.
    Problem is this.... you've become accustomed to the quality of one soup but to have another of that same quality is not enough, and ask for better. Once that is done then it too loses its 'flavor' because of repetition and want more... wash and repeat. This process leads to a. Illusion that anything less than the last 'best' soup is unsatisfactory and deserved a berating.  

    So... when at the soup kitchen and they ask for something more and you give them spices and it's not good enough and they let you know about it, what say you? You enable them? Because that is exactly what is happening here
  • Urzashead
    Urzashead Posts: 64 Match Maker
    Omg. The rewards suck. They are terrible compared to other events. I dont care if they are free. I pay enough for cards in the VAULT because I EXPECT too use them to get the normally decent rewards from events. 

    Its already hard enough with the crummy rates for rares and mythics from packs. I've opened like 20 is IX packs with horrid results. 

    Would be cool for everyone to try and get the same score. I know that's not possible tho.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    Urzashead said:
    Omg. The rewards suck. They are terrible compared to other events. I dont care if they are free. I pay enough for cards in the VAULT because I EXPECT too use them to get the normally decent rewards from events. 

    Its already hard enough with the crummy rates for rares and mythics from packs. I've opened like 20 is IX packs with horrid results. 

    Would be cool for everyone to try and get the same score. I know that's not possible tho.
    24 pp in M19 and counting... 1 mythic.  Period. I'm maxed on C, UC and have half of the rares...  and jack squat for mythics.  What I have presently is from EP. 
  • SinisterOne
    SinisterOne Posts: 47 Just Dropped In
    I don't mind the old events that give legacy rewards being standard. If you really think about it the standard restrictions create an environment where it takes different cards to win. Yea, when the older events were standard the could be facerolled with top tier cards like Olivia, HUF,  etc. but by restricting the cards available to use it forces players to find new ways to complete the event/objectives. 

    My only wish would be for the rewards to be updated not to get more free stuff but to have a standard pack and a legacy pack in progression. 

    Like in HoR replace the first Crystal reward with a M19 pack and leave the full progression pack as is. This would help newer players get standard cards and anyone able to hit full progression would get some legacy cards. 

    Even the PvE events should have that system. OotG gives a 3 card pack and 2 five card packs. Have the 3 card pull from all sets, the First 5 card be M19 or DOM and the last be BFZ. 

    I wonder if @Brigby could possibly see if that could be doable. I really think the events should give some reward that is tied to its set.
  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
    edited August 2018
    If we have to tolerate tinykitty rewards that aren't worth the time because they are free, I assure you the game won't last that long. it actually evident and no one wins.
    To me the problem is the inconsistencies with time/reward ratios among events, not how much or what we get.
    For instance HOR, will it hurt d3s bottom line if nodes were reduced while keeping rewards the same?
    Some events are so long that I get the impression of being punished for getting free stuff.
    If events are to be long to keep people entertained, rewards should be adjusted accordingly.
    A paying customer would expect some quality in time/reward in free stuff. At least I do
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    Aye, the emotions everywhere..

    This all wouldn't be such a big deal if we didn't like the game too much. But we do, and there are tons of problems and issues and this event is just another example of things going wrong.
    How many events do we have that give the wrong rewards, by logic or flavor? How few events actually give new rewards? We're asking about this for a while, but rarely see any change or even answer. Do I feel like I'd deserve an answer? Sure that, I  invested time and money.
    This whole thread isn't about whining about to few free stuff, it's just about "we asked for a change multiple times, this goes in the wrong direction and isn't worth our time". This thing wouldn't even be necessary if there was proper communication.
  • gogol666
    gogol666 Posts: 316 Mover and Shaker
    Whatever your opinion about the rewards, the reason for playing or whatever else, all of you is making my point:
    - we care more than the devs does

    So, I don't mind if this is a protest or this is vacation or this is nothing at all. What we got is some visibility about one thing:
    - there is a community

    Happy to be with you guys. In particular, those with different opinions such as @Kinesia

  • Wolfbane
    Wolfbane Posts: 42 Just Dropped In
    Just want to add this as food for thought:

    If the legacy events could be played with legacy cards it would make sense to put out legacy cards as a reward because those legacy cards can then be used to play said legacy event.

    However since all  ( or most) PVP legacy events have been changed to standard the rewards should be changed to standard as well instead of legacy rewards as these legacy cards can not be used in said event.


    In my view the purpose of granting rewards is to enable players to improve their skills, decks, gameplay and thus their dedication to the game. Granting rewards that do not meet these targets or that have decreasing functionality is not logical or sensible as it diminishes players dedication and loyalty to the game thus creating the opposite effect.

    ( Also pay attentions that I am not saying a single word about the quantity or quality of the rewards, this post is about the logic of assinging appropriate awards)
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    edited August 2018
    This content has been removed.
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    bken1234 said:
    babar3355 said:

    However, I feel no obligation to bow out to teams who don't bother to try and be in a competitive coalition.  The availability is there if the effort is there.
    This is a very unfair thing to say. In my travels around the MtGPQ universe, I have met tons of coalitions who aren’t in this situation because they don’t bother — more because they don’t have the resources and skills to build great teams. 

    You were very lucky to get on a great coalition — so was I — but there are a lot of captains and players who care very deeply about their coalitions, and would love to be in the position to "choose" whether to play up or down. 
    Man, you are really beating me up today my friend...

    I neither think it was unfair or untrue.  Captains that choose to stick with coalitions despite the developers unwillingness to help them be successful at becoming competitive have plenty of other options. Primarily joining a broader coalition team like... well, you guys.  Or FTW.  or Phoenix.  In fact, they could bring their whole team to one of your groups and get extremely good resources to fill out their rosters with competitive players.

    Being unwilling to do this is fine... but it is then not "unfair" for me to say that the "availability is there".

    If they are unaware of these resources then they have not put much effort into engaging with the community through the forums, the chat systems or Facebook.
  • Froggy
    Froggy Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    This thread gave me a good laugh. It started from a general announcement about playing to progression as a form of protest. Now I can’t tell what it’s about... 😂

    Either way. The rewards are quite lame. I’m glad the brackets are smaller (are they?).

    Im also kinda glad I can just totally relax my way through this event. No stress. And with that, I can experiment on decks and have that strange thing some of us signed up for - fun?

    Im having fun trying to overdo each objective where possible - like casting 14 creatures in a game instead of 3. Just pure mess-around.

    Hope others are having fun too.

    So - what were we talking about? Right. HoR. I personally dislike the event. But with the stress factor gone, I’m enjoying the boycott. 😉 
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ok guys, this is getting a bit nasty.  Lets try to keep it civil (and avoid any more warnings).

    To summarize:

    Having non-standard rewards in a standard event is dumb
           -Either have events limited to the sets in standard when they released or just make standard events give                     standard rewards and legacy events give legacy rewards

    Having some events give significantly less rewards than other events is dumb
           -One fix is to increase rewards in the lesser events
           -Other fix is to lower rewards in the greater events
           -BOTH OF THESE OPINIONS ARE Valid

    People don't like waiting a long time to get new cards, especially mythics
           -One fix is improving drop rates
           -One fix is to increase number of events with current rewards
           -One fix is to increase amount of rewards in current events
           -Or you just spend real money (not recommended!) or deal with the waiting (its really not that bad)

    The coalition system needs a revamp to make it easier for active players in inactive coalitions to find good teams to play with to have a chance at top rewards
           -Making it possible to scroll down on the top leaderboard would be great
           -Some sort of filter for the random search would also be useful
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    span_argoman said:

    As I recall someone who used to post on these forums saying, if you don't like it you don't have to play it. You're the one making yourself miserable by forcing yourself to play it to whatever artificial standards you decide upon.


    Well, this comment has really withstood the test of time.  It is just as vapid and mindless now as it was when originally posted.

    As players who have invested countless financial and time resources into the game, we should just quit playing rather than raising our concerns to the developers?

    @Kinesia -  You are correct.  I feel entitled to worthwhile content after spending well over $1000 on this game.  We are not a bunch of beggars in line at a soup kitchen.  We are paying customers with a vested interest in the games success. We have a valid platform to complain from when we are unhappy with the content provided. 

    Just because you might be free to play doesn't mean other people are.  And I don't pay real money to buy cards, PWs and crystals so that I can compete for worthless rewards.  What do you think the Not.Another.Dime movement was all about?  
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    span_argoman said:


    As I recall someone who used to post on these forums saying, if you don't like it you don't have to play it.

    That's a false dichotomy, though. It presumes that the only options are to accept it as it is, or to quit playing altogether.

    That's not how reform works. If people genuinely feel upset that they are receiving irrelevant and paltry rewards for a time-consuming effort, they have every right to express that dissatisfaction and attempt to lobby for changes. 



  • Sarahschmara
    Sarahschmara Posts: 554 Critical Contributor
    edited August 2018
    babar3355 said:
    bken1234 said:
    babar3355 said:

    However, I feel no obligation to bow out to teams who don't bother to try and be in a competitive coalition.  The availability is there if the effort is there.
    This is a very unfair thing to say. In my travels around the MtGPQ universe, I have met tons of coalitions who aren’t in this situation because they don’t bother — more because they don’t have the resources and skills to build great teams. 

    You were very lucky to get on a great coalition — so was I — but there are a lot of captains and players who care very deeply about their coalitions, and would love to be in the position to "choose" whether to play up or down. 
    Man, you are really beating me up today my friend...

    I neither think it was unfair or untrue.  Captains that choose to stick with coalitions despite the developers unwillingness to help them be successful at becoming competitive have plenty of other options. Primarily joining a broader coalition team like... well, you guys.  Or FTW.  or Phoenix.  In fact, they could bring their whole team to one of your groups and get extremely good resources to fill out their rosters with competitive players.

    Being unwilling to do this is fine... but it is then not "unfair" for me to say that the "availability is there".

    If they are unaware of these resources then they have not put much effort into engaging with the community through the forums, the chat systems or Facebook.
    It's FTA but I like how it auto-corrects to FTW!

    And, yes, it is not difficult to find resources in the game, if small teams don't want to be absorbed by a mega-group like TP9 then they are welcome to come chat with us at FTA; we're horrible at secrets so we don't care who we share them with.

    Does it take a bit of extra effort to find these sources of information? Yeah, a bit.

    I had to make a reddit account and a forum account. I had to join (several) slack chat(s) and read a lot of posts. I had to work with my group to find efficient ways of acquiring the most resources for the most players possible (even if that means sending some of "my" players to rival teams), build an ethical and inclusive community where new players aren't afraid to ask questions and many of my teammates and friendly rivals put a lot of work into the various tools we use to "train up" new players. (shoutout to David Hunter's YouTube channel!) It took four months of consistent top 25 play for me to take my (then) new coalition TheGrind (aka D3fenestrate) into the top 100 all time coalitions (although I'm sure it's since been bumped by Freejams) which felt like a huge accomplishment at the time!

    Was it difficult? No. Did it take some effort on my part? Yeah, a bit. It is completely valid for Babar to point out the difference between "unwilling" and "unable" and @span_argoman I'm frankly surprised that you choose to quote someone who was notorious for being "unwilling" to a fault; it's very odd considering the work we all put into those helpful FAQs you compiled for everyone.
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sarahschmara said:

    [snip]

    And, yes, it is not difficult to find resources in the game, if small teams don't want to be absorbed by a mega-group like TP9 then they are welcome to come chat with us at FTA; we're horrible at secrets so we don't care who we share them with.

    [snip]
    TP9 doesn't readily "absorb" coalitions. Our community is public and is enjoyed by over 800 players from all over the MTGPQ universe -- almost triple the number of players that are on our teams. 

    Because we only take in new coalitions if we have the bandwith to manage them, we offer support to leaders in other ways -- sending them extra players, connecting them with recruiting resources like Reddit, Facebook and the Forum, and teaching them how to easily track participation.

    In fact, our leadership spends a considerable amount of time helping outside coalitions -- not because we want to add them, because we love to see successful teams and players enjoying the game. I'm sure this is something you can relate to @Sarahschmara , as you also spend a considerable amount of time growing the game and working with leaders outside of your group. 

    In addition we offer those coalitions a safe haven from poaching by welcoming them into our community and giving them access to all the resources that are open to anyone else. 

    The main goal of ThePower9 is not to be a super successful alliance -- our goal is to be a super successful Discord community for anyone who needs game resources. We enjoy meeting and building relationships with leaders outside of our alliance and helping their teams thrive. At the end of the day, we just want to make sure everyone is having fun and the game is here to celebrate it's 5 year anniversary and beyond. 

    I request that you do not make assumptions about how our alliance and community operates, how we grow (or do not grow) and what our goals are. 

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