Deadpool Daily, automation/simplification for advanced enough players?

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  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    *I can tell this is a very passionate topic for players, so I just want to give a friendly reminder to keep all comments civil and constructive. Thank you!
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    Sim Mayor said:
    I have played Strike Force, and I thought about it earlier in this thread. It's not really a 1:1 comparison, because SF has an energy mechanic that dictates how many battles (and thus how many rewards) you get per day. MPQ has health, but that's not really the same thing, since a) the amount of health you lose depends on your skill and some luck, and b) unlike SF, in MPQ your health loss carries over between battles.

    If the devs tried implementing an autoplay system, people would howl that the AI played their team wrong and go back to demanding auto-win. If they built an auto-win that cost you a flat portion of your health, we'd start seeing threads that say "Health costs for autowin are too high! I could've played that node for HALF that much health / zero damage / net gain in health!"

    TL;DR: This game is this game, not another game. Play or don't play in order to get rewards or not get rewards.
    I'm fine playing the game as it is, but I don't think autoplay is a bad idea. Aside from Strike Force I was also thinking about the persona games. When dungeon crawling in persona, you have a fast forward option, where your team will cycle thru just making basic attacks. In MPQ that would be similar to the AI just making matches for you. People are already familiar with the AI making bad choices for them with Grocket and Banner, so I think we'd recognize the trade off of control vs convenience when using it.

    This thread started about deadpool daily, but I would use it more for the easy nodes, or when I have already won the match and the last few moves are just a formality. It would speed up the game a tiny bit, especially since I am often not giving it 100% of my attention.

    As for autowin, they could down each character for autowin and people probably wouldn't complain. We all talk about using more of our roster, I think people would be fine sacrificing characters we'd otherwise never use.
  • Sim Mayor
    Sim Mayor Posts: 309 Mover and Shaker
    Straycat said:
    I'm fine playing the game as it is, but I don't think autoplay is a bad idea. Aside from Strike Force I was also thinking about the persona games. When dungeon crawling in persona, you have a fast forward option, where your team will cycle thru just making basic attacks. In MPQ that would be similar to the AI just making matches for you. People are already familiar with the AI making bad choices for them with Grocket and Banner, so I think we'd recognize the trade off of control vs convenience when using it.

    This thread started about deadpool daily, but I would use it more for the easy nodes, or when I have already won the match and the last few moves are just a formality. It would speed up the game a tiny bit, especially since I am often not giving it 100% of my attention. 
    Until the enemy AI gets a massive cascade during those last few moves and wipes out your easy win :D

    I see serious risks expanding this idea to easy nodes (or to PvE in general, completely ignoring PvP). It's basically handing people with deeper rosters yet another tool that they can use to speed through nodes faster than everyone else and lock in their high placement rewards. Other players will feel pressured to switch to auto earlier in the fight in order to keep up, which has the potential to cost more health, etc.
    As for autowin, they could down each character for autowin and people probably wouldn't complain. We all talk about using more of our roster, I think people would be fine sacrificing characters we'd otherwise never use. 
    Speaking as someone with a somewhat deep roster (at least one cover in every 5*, 75% of 4*s champed, several max-champed duped 3*s), I agree that I could throw my less-used characters into the fray all day long and not really miss them. But isn't that what people complained about when Thanos (both versions) was first released? Providing an unfair advantage to people with deep rosters who could keep "feeding" him allies to down?

    Basically, along with the (admittedly personal) feeling that you should have to play in order to get prizes, I see too much opportunity for this to only benefit the high rollers while penalizing everyone on the lower end of the play spectrum.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    edited August 2018
    Sim Mayor said:
    Spudgutter said:
    Ok.  Then asks the devs to roll back your game, so that your rewards are the same as they were 5 years ago.  No elite tokens, no cp, no 4*, maybe a few thousand iso a *week*, no DDQ, etc.  

    The truth of the matter, whether you like it or not, is that as the game has progressed and evolved, we have gotten more and more rewards for less and less.  Sometimes those updates came from the devs, and some were from us asking and asking and asking for changes.  

    I'm appalled that you are appalled.
    That's a false equivalence. Nobody is saying that reward structures shouldn't change, or even that DDQ shouldn't be updated. There are quite a few very constructive threads on that very subject. What we're saying is that you shouldn't get the rewards for not playing the game. Galathan was saying that they're appalled that some players believe they deserve rewards for doing nothing.

    Not entirely, there absolutely is an equivalence. 4 years ago, X amount of play would get you Y rewards.  Now, X amount of play gets you Z rewards.  

    Z > Y.  

    Who cares if we are asking that, in a very very very minor area, on two or three nodes, X is now equal to Zero.  Make it CL based or something so that those rewards still require play for newer players.  Make it so that it is an option, so those that want to still play it, can.  

    Heck, you get more rewards for being in an alliance with 20 active players versus not being in one at all.  You get more CP in a buy club than if you bought just for your alliance. You have to acknowledge there are instances where there are some rewards that require Zero effort on our part.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,456 Chairperson of the Boards
    SCLs in DDQ where the whole thing shifts right a tier is what I'd love to see. the 1* node becomes a 2*, the 3* node becomes a 4*, and the crash becomes a solo 5* node. It's nearly impossible to work on a 5* meaningfully on purpose, so one hopes that the hypothetical 5* crash reward would be something like one of those rebalance sell-back tokens
  • Sim Mayor
    Sim Mayor Posts: 309 Mover and Shaker
    Spudgutter said:

    Not entirely, there absolutely is an equivalence. 4 years ago, X amount of play would get you Y rewards.  Now, X amount of play gets you Z rewards.  

    Z > Y.  

    Who cares if we are asking that, in a very very very minor area, on two or three nodes, X is now equal to Zero.  Make it CL based or something so that those rewards still require play for newer players.  Make it so that it is an option, so those that want to still play it, can.  

    Heck, you get more rewards for being in an alliance with 20 active players versus not being in one at all.  You get more CP in a buy club than if you bought just for your alliance. You have to acknowledge there are instances where there are some rewards that require Zero effort on our part.
    There's no equivalence between "Rewards get updated now and then" and "I should get stuff for free."

    Rewards get updated because the entire nature of the game changes when new character tiers are added. As has been pointed out in other threads, that's a great reason to update the DDQ so that it keeps up with the new reality.

    But as soon as you reach "Who cares if...X is now equal to Zero?" you're not asking for a rebalance, you're asking for free stuff. And your basis for saying you deserve free stuff and others don't is that you've been playing longer than them. In the words of Philip J. Fry, that dog won't hunt, monsignor.

    As you so adeptly point out, it's already possible to get a LOT of free stuff. The stuff in DDQ is already practically free as it is. All they ask of you is a 10-minute investment of your time each day to get a not-insignificant amount of iso, a couple CP and a free 3*, not to mention the taco tokens.

    If you want to argue for a reward rebalance, I'll be right there behind you with ideas and support.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    Sim Mayor said:
    Spudgutter said:

    Not entirely, there absolutely is an equivalence. 4 years ago, X amount of play would get you Y rewards.  Now, X amount of play gets you Z rewards.  

    Z > Y.  

    Who cares if we are asking that, in a very very very minor area, on two or three nodes, X is now equal to Zero.  Make it CL based or something so that those rewards still require play for newer players.  Make it so that it is an option, so those that want to still play it, can.  

    Heck, you get more rewards for being in an alliance with 20 active players versus not being in one at all.  You get more CP in a buy club than if you bought just for your alliance. You have to acknowledge there are instances where there are some rewards that require Zero effort on our part.
    There's no equivalence between "Rewards get updated now and then" and "I should get stuff for free."

    Rewards get updated because the entire nature of the game changes when new character tiers are added. As has been pointed out in other threads, that's a great reason to update the DDQ so that it keeps up with the new reality.

    But as soon as you reach "Who cares if...X is now equal to Zero?" you're not asking for a rebalance, you're asking for free stuff. And your basis for saying you deserve free stuff and others don't is that you've been playing longer than them. In the words of Philip J. Fry, that dog won't hunt, monsignor.

    As you so adeptly point out, it's already possible to get a LOT of free stuff. The stuff in DDQ is already practically free as it is. All they ask of you is a 10-minute investment of your time each day to get a not-insignificant amount of iso, a couple CP and a free 3*, not to mention the taco tokens.

    If you want to argue for a reward rebalance, I'll be right there behind you with ideas and support.

    Just like every pve, where they give new players a loaner in the 5/4/3/2 essential nodes?  Except they don't.  If you meet the requirement set forth, you get more rewards.  Plain and simple.  Try to word-smith it up however you like, it's still true.  And those rewards have different values. And it leads to, once again, alliance rewards.  Top 100 alliances typically need someone who has all of the characters to help get the top 100 rewards, or to max out the alliance rewards for a boss event. But, I'll let you in on a secret: for pvp, pve and boss events, i can contribute exactly Zero to the cause and get back 100% of the "free" rewards.  I don't even need to quote a tv show to prove that point.

    Also, you keep mentioning asking for "free stuff" like it's a bad word, or filthy entitlement, like it gives the moral high ground.  If you have been around long enough, you know that one of the main problem with this and other games is burnout.  Giving more rewards for less work is the staple of combating player fatigue.  You are seriously arguing that the value of 500-1500 iso and one (1) taco token is worth more than the goodwill put forth for players who have been around forever? 

    If you still think the 500 iso from the "That guy from That Place" node is not-insignificant, then i am done with this conversation, because we are looking at things completely different.  When you hit 1700 days, if you are still playing, we can pick it back up again. 
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    Sim Mayor said:
    Until the enemy AI gets a massive cascade during those last few moves and wipes out your easy win :D

    I see serious risks expanding this idea to easy nodes (or to PvE in general, completely ignoring PvP). It's basically handing people with deeper rosters yet another tool that they can use to speed through nodes faster than everyone else and lock in their high placement rewards. Other players will feel pressured to switch to auto earlier in the fight in order to keep up, which has the potential to cost more health, etc.
    As for autowin, they could down each character for autowin and people probably wouldn't complain. We all talk about using more of our roster, I think people would be fine sacrificing characters we'd otherwise never use. 
    Speaking as someone with a somewhat deep roster (at least one cover in every 5*, 75% of 4*s champed, several max-champed duped 3*s), I agree that I could throw my less-used characters into the fray all day long and not really miss them. But isn't that what people complained about when Thanos (both versions) was first released? Providing an unfair advantage to people with deep rosters who could keep "feeding" him allies to down?

    Basically, along with the (admittedly personal) feeling that you should have to play in order to get prizes, I see too much opportunity for this to only benefit the high rollers while penalizing everyone on the lower end of the play spectrum.
    I don't see the AI making turns for me as a speed advantage. It would help people that don't watch the enemy's turn, but not competitive people. A player makes smarter moves that should end up faster.

    Autoplay/ autowin almost already exists with 1/2 health Thor, America Chavez, Grocket, etc that let you win most pve on autopilot. I don't see how letting it actually go on autopilot changes things that much.

    The advantage to people with deep rosters is that they can breeze thru pve, which is the crux of the issue. The 1* and 2* DDQ nodes are the only times we can't use that advantage.
  • Sim Mayor
    Sim Mayor Posts: 309 Mover and Shaker
    Spudgutter said:

    If you still think the 500 iso from the "That guy from That Place" node is not-insignificant, then i am done with this conversation, because we are looking at things completely different.  When you hit 1700 days, if you are still playing, we can pick it back up again. 
    Eh, let's clarify this one first: I was referencing the amount of iso that you get from the entire DDQ, sorry I wasn't clear about that. Then again, 500 iso is a pretty significant amount to get from a single node in any event, even at my paltry 1057 days playing :)
    Just like every pve, where they give new players a loaner in the 5/4/3/2 essential nodes?  Except they don't.  If you meet the requirement set forth, you get more rewards.  Plain and simple.  Try to word-smith it up however you like, it's still true.  And those rewards have different values. And it leads to, once again, alliance rewards.  Top 100 alliances typically need someone who has all of the characters to help get the top 100 rewards, or to max out the alliance rewards for a boss event. But, I'll let you in on a secret: for pvp, pve and boss events, i can contribute exactly Zero to the cause and get back 100% of the "free" rewards.  I don't even need to quote a tv show to prove that point.
    Umm...thank you for making my point for me? You get the opportunity to play for the rewards in those nodes because you put in the work to get that character. And let's not forget that you still have to actually play the nodes, they don't say "Congratulations! You have a 5* Daredevil, so here's some stuff for you!"

    And as for coasting for prizes, yes, you can get alliance rewards without playing, but unless the rest of your alliance is on-point, your lack of participation going to hurt their overall performance, meaning lesser prizes for everybody. Plus a top 100 alliance will eventually kick you out for not contributing. You can get away with it for a bit, but overall you still have to do something to get something.
    Also, you keep mentioning asking for "free stuff" like it's a bad word, or filthy entitlement, like it gives the moral high ground.  If you have been around long enough, you know that one of the main problem with this and other games is burnout.  Giving more rewards for less work is the staple of combating player fatigue.  You are seriously arguing that the value of 500-1500 iso and one (1) taco token is worth more than the goodwill put forth for players who have been around forever?  
    Nope, I totally love free stuff! I hunt down every link that gets me free covers, I participate in Marvel Insider for prizes, and whenever there's a random token waiting for me in-game just to say thanks, I appreciate it and feel appreciated. What I don't do is demand more free stuff in exchange for the privilege of having me around. If you're burning out without it, you're burning out. There ain't enough taco tokens in the world to get around that.

    I also have to quibble with the idea that "Giving more rewards for less work is the staple of combating player fatigue." The way to combat player fatigue is to keep your game fresh and interesting with new characters, powers, mechanics, etc. Should you be getting more rewards the longer you've been playing? Of course. Doing the same amount of work should get you rewards commensurate with your level. But why would you expect to get those rewards for less work?

    And Futurama is not just a TV show, it's a lifestyle :D
  • Sim Mayor
    Sim Mayor Posts: 309 Mover and Shaker
    Straycat said:
    I don't see the AI making turns for me as a speed advantage. It would help people that don't watch the enemy's turn, but not competitive people. A player makes smarter moves that should end up faster.

    Autoplay/ autowin almost already exists with 1/2 health Thor, America Chavez, Grocket, etc that let you win most pve on autopilot. I don't see how letting it actually go on autopilot changes things that much.

    The advantage to people with deep rosters is that they can breeze thru pve, which is the crux of the issue. The 1* and 2* DDQ nodes are the only times we can't use that advantage.
    I agree that if the tiles move the same speed as they do when you're playing manually, the stupid AI / Player looking for moves times could wind up being a wash. Most games I've seen with an autoplay function tend to run at 2x or 4x speed, so I assumed that in my responses and then had to go back and look to realize you didn't say it :D

    As for various characters being an autowin...now we're just being a bit silly with language, aren't we? Yes, having certain characters on your team seriously bumps up your chances of winning, but that's not the same as having an autowin button like in MSF.

    And you're right, DDQ keeps you from taking advantage of your full roster and makes you fight with a less-than-optimal team. Exhilarating, isn't it? And even if it's not, it's only a couple of nodes, which you don't even have to play in order to reach the nodes with the higher rewards. You just don't get the rewards for the nodes you don't play.
  • PuceMoose
    PuceMoose Posts: 1,445 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2018
    What about an option that only appears if you have the featured 3-star champed (or even 200+, if just champing isn't restrictive enough)? A pin called "The Total Taquito", where you face every single enemy in each of the regular DDQ pins (except the crash) in one giant multi-wave fight, no roster restrictions. Win, and get the rewards that you would have received for completing all of the individual pins. Obviously, if you complete any of the other pins the Taquito pin would be disabled, and vice versa.
  • purplemur
    purplemur Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    Entitlement:  the feeling or belief that you deserve to be given something (such as special privileges)
    This thread: I shouldn't have to do this thing that everyone else does because I have been around so long I find it boring.

    It's called playing the game. We do it or we don't. But to get free stuff the rest have to earn just cuz hit 1k days is the height of unreasonable entitlement. It goes against equality and parity. It really is absurd.
    Should we be able to skip the PvP seed teams too? why not just start with a free 200+ points?
    Why do the first three easy nodes in PvE? I mean if we have 5*s it's not even challenging
    Why have to do the 2E/3E nodes in PvE?
    Why have to select the characters or tap the screen? 
    Why have any art or banners or effects at all? 

    Also absurd: that 5* players don't have HP for roster slots
     Heres a hint: have both spidey and juggalo for the 1*, add storm and it will go noticeably faster. Keep a go-to team for the 2* nodes. 144 is noticeable vs a 95. Necessary? no, but quicker.
    Also absurd: it takes too long:
     I clear DPD before flushing. I don't eat dairy or a buncha starch either so not sure what the time sink is. I spend about as long as clearing seeds for a Lightning round(see above)
    Also absurd: being appalled.
     Save the more-outraged-than-you for facebook and the campus quad. (I'm being hyperbolic about the hyperbole I know)
    Also absurd: It's boring.
     It's not the same dark Avengers everyday, we face a full variety of tile movers and goons, there's wave nodes, 1-on-1. DPD packs the most variety and widest use of rosters out there. Maybe 5* play wouldn't be as boring if people played around with the lower tiers more? 
    Also Absurd : the amount of red iso we get. even with 2x it's still.... ohh wait that's different matter, just so used to supports ruining things....

    I'm sorry that the game is boring at high end play. Sounds lame. Doesn't seem like a fun or rewarding use of time. 1500iso and a tacotoken won't fix that. and 5 extra minutes for the left side clears isn't what's causing it. 
  • Sim Mayor
    Sim Mayor Posts: 309 Mover and Shaker
    And on that note, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to abandon this thread before @Brigby shuts it down. Thanks for an interesting discussion!
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    purplemur said:
    Entitlement:  the feeling or belief that you deserve to be given something (such as special privileges)
    This thread: I shouldn't have to do this thing that everyone else does because I have been around so long I find it boring.

    It's called playing the game. We do it or we don't. But to get free stuff the rest have to earn just cuz hit 1k days is the height of unreasonable entitlement. It goes against equality and parity. It really is absurd.
    Should we be able to skip the PvP seed teams too? why not just start with a free 200+ points?
    Why do the first three easy nodes in PvE? I mean if we have 5*s it's not even challenging
    Why have to do the 2E/3E nodes in PvE?
    Why have to select the characters or tap the screen? 
    Why have any art or banners or effects at all? 

    Also absurd: that 5* players don't have HP for roster slots
     Heres a hint: have both spidey and juggalo for the 1*, add storm and it will go noticeably faster. Keep a go-to team for the 2* nodes. 144 is noticeable vs a 95. Necessary? no, but quicker.
    Also absurd: it takes too long:
     I clear DPD before flushing. I don't eat dairy or a buncha starch either so not sure what the time sink is. I spend about as long as clearing seeds for a Lightning round(see above)
    Also absurd: being appalled.
     Save the more-outraged-than-you for facebook and the campus quad. (I'm being hyperbolic about the hyperbole I know)
    Also absurd: It's boring.
     It's not the same dark Avengers everyday, we face a full variety of tile movers and goons, there's wave nodes, 1-on-1. DPD packs the most variety and widest use of rosters out there. Maybe 5* play wouldn't be as boring if people played around with the lower tiers more? 
    Also Absurd : the amount of red iso we get. even with 2x it's still.... ohh wait that's different matter, just so used to supports ruining things....

    I'm sorry that the game is boring at high end play. Sounds lame. Doesn't seem like a fun or rewarding use of time. 1500iso and a tacotoken won't fix that. and 5 extra minutes for the left side clears isn't what's causing it. 



    I wasn't going to get back into this thread, but i saw something that made me chuckle.  

    In the other thread about 3* characters, you said;

    "offtopic: adjust the rate of 2* in Heroic tokens to yield more 3*s (and more 4's)"

    You are literally requesting better rewards for zero extra effort.  The difference obviously being you are suggesting something that effects everyone, and others are suggesting something that applies to a select group.  You might argue that's apples and oranges, i would say closer to oranges and tangerines.

    Also, again, the entitlement thing.  I know i never said that adjustments to the ddq would be based on days played.  I said make it scl based.  So that you *earn* the additional reward of less play time.  I like the idea someone floated that by completing a certain node would just give you some of the rewards from other nodes.  

    Besides, it would just be silly to give people better and better rewards based solely on how many days they played.  If they did, they would probably wait at least 730 days before they start giving away free 5* covers, and then repeat that every 90 days.  They should also wait about that same amount of time before giving out 25 CP at a time, the equivalent of an LT, once a month.  But I'm just spit-balling ideas here.
  • purplemur
    purplemur Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    Spudgutter said:

    I wasn't going to get back into this thread, but i saw something that made me chuckle.  

    In the other thread about 3* characters, you said;

    "offtopic: adjust the rate of 2* in Heroic tokens to yield more 3*s (and more 4's)"

    You are literally requesting better rewards for zero extra effort.  The difference obviously being you are suggesting something that effects everyone, and others are suggesting something that applies to a select group.  You might argue that's apples and oranges, i would say closer to oranges and tangerines.

    Also, again, the entitlement thing.  I know i never said that adjustments to the ddq would be based on days played.  I said make it scl based.  So that you *earn* the additional reward of less play time.  I like the idea someone floated that by completing a certain node would just give you some of the rewards from other nodes.  

    Besides, it would just be silly to give people better and better rewards based solely on how many days they played.  If they did, they would probably wait at least 730 days before they start giving away free 5* covers, and then repeat that every 90 days.  They should also wait about that same amount of time before giving out 25 CP at a time, the equivalent of an LT, once a month.  But I'm just spit-balling ideas here.
    If I may split pears with the analogy: In the other thread I lobbied for better rewards not more. It would be like comparing a grapefruit to a kumquat. Nobody ever said those rewards are too good I wish they went back to 20 iso. Lets talk about making DPD worth more all day. Better is not free though. I have earned the right to ask for better rewards for the 58,439 Moonstones I have pulled from heroic 10pks. So many 2*'s. I'm not saying because of the garbage rate of tokens I should get free Elite tokens with every Latest Legendary purchase.  Autoplay/passthrough/free DPD is like saying I been coming to this supermarket longer than the hipsters that moved in down the block so I want a free apple. 

     If I play extra hard and get all the loose iso on the boss side nodes, go 3/3 on Gauntlet, LR, etc there is room for me to grow and one day be a top player. But if the current top players don't have to work for those rewards (because it's boring) then the system is a fraud. 

    increasing value of rewards for playing longer is totally legit - everyone does it. but if you didn't have to log in everyday to get those rewards that would be bogus. You still have to put in a nominal amount of effort. Which is the amount of effort it takes for a 5* player to get the left sides of DPD. nominal. 
    (in my best Seinfeld) What's the deal with Standard's after day 1000?

    Maybe the 5* Deadpool will let you spend whale points to skip the daily - Like a punch card for the coffee shop?
  • jackstar0
    jackstar0 Posts: 1,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    Anyone leaving tacos and possible intercepts on the table... I just don't get you.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    purplemur said:
    Spudgutter said:

    I wasn't going to get back into this thread, but i saw something that made me chuckle.  

    In the other thread about 3* characters, you said;

    "offtopic: adjust the rate of 2* in Heroic tokens to yield more 3*s (and more 4's)"

    You are literally requesting better rewards for zero extra effort.  The difference obviously being you are suggesting something that effects everyone, and others are suggesting something that applies to a select group.  You might argue that's apples and oranges, i would say closer to oranges and tangerines.

    Also, again, the entitlement thing.  I know i never said that adjustments to the ddq would be based on days played.  I said make it scl based.  So that you *earn* the additional reward of less play time.  I like the idea someone floated that by completing a certain node would just give you some of the rewards from other nodes.  

    Besides, it would just be silly to give people better and better rewards based solely on how many days they played.  If they did, they would probably wait at least 730 days before they start giving away free 5* covers, and then repeat that every 90 days.  They should also wait about that same amount of time before giving out 25 CP at a time, the equivalent of an LT, once a month.  But I'm just spit-balling ideas here.
    If I may split pears with the analogy: In the other thread I lobbied for better rewards not more. It would be like comparing a grapefruit to a kumquat. Nobody ever said those rewards are too good I wish they went back to 20 iso. Lets talk about making DPD worth more all day. Better is not free though. I have earned the right to ask for better rewards for the 58,439 Moonstones I have pulled from heroic 10pks. So many 2*'s. I'm not saying because of the garbage rate of tokens I should get free Elite tokens with every Latest Legendary purchase.  Autoplay/passthrough/free DPD is like saying I been coming to this supermarket longer than the hipsters that moved in down the block so I want a free apple. 

     If I play extra hard and get all the loose iso on the boss side nodes, go 3/3 on Gauntlet, LR, etc there is room for me to grow and one day be a top player. But if the current top players don't have to work for those rewards (because it's boring) then the system is a fraud. 

    increasing value of rewards for playing longer is totally legit - everyone does it. but if you didn't have to log in everyday to get those rewards that would be bogus. You still have to put in a nominal amount of effort. Which is the amount of effort it takes for a 5* player to get the left sides of DPD. nominal. 
    (in my best Seinfeld) What's the deal with Standard's after day 1000?

    Maybe the 5* Deadpool will let you spend whale points to skip the daily - Like a punch card for the coffee shop?
    Ah, you "earned" the right to ask for better rewards?  Based solely on how many you have presumably pulled?  But asking to (optionally) cut out 5 min of repetitive play, so long as you meet a roster requirement, is entitlement? That is really not that different.

    Besides, the longer you play, and the better your roster is, the easier it is to get rewards.  That is a fact.  I can get to 1200+ in pvp in 20-25 wins, but other rosters require the full 40 wins to just to get the 4* cover.  I can reach top pve progression with "X" amount of play time, others require "X+an hour" to achieve the same goal.  

    Please stop looking at this as just "wanting something for free" and more of a "reward for reaching a milestone."

    I must say that spending whale points is an awesome suggestion, and is precisely what this thread should be discussing!
  • JackTenrec
    JackTenrec Posts: 808 Critical Contributor
    The biggest "problem" with DDQ is the roster restriction on the 1* and 2* nodes.  In most advanced rosters, there's likely an inversion of power since newer players need to level and cover 1* and 2* characters to advance, while old rosters use those tiers for farming.  Most folks only have a maxed Juggernaut for the 1* node (or covered but completely unleveled characters used for XP) and have 2* in various non-maxed states since they're constantly being sold off and rebuilt.  So players who have been around for a long time are a) sick of using a tiny pool of characters who b) are inefficiently or under-built.

    Obviously, those nodes are balanced for characters in those tiers, so it seems like a reasonable alternative would be to offer an alternative set of nodes for equivalent rewards with a higher challenge level but allow more use of the 3* or 4* or 5* tiers (lock out the newbie nodes once someone plays with the more veteran ones to avoid reward double-dipping).  The Big Enchilada is already the closest thing we have to a sandbox where I wind up trying out combinations of new non-champed characters.  A few more low-stakes nodes to encourage experimentation with little-used characters would be a welcome antidote to boring grindiness.
  • Sim Mayor
    Sim Mayor Posts: 309 Mover and Shaker
    Spudgutter said:

    Ah, you "earned" the right to ask for better rewards?  Based solely on how many you have presumably pulled?  But asking to (optionally) cut out 5 min of repetitive play, so long as you meet a roster requirement, is entitlement? That is really not that different.
    I keep seeing different ways of saying "our viewpoints aren't so different" in this conversation, but they're only coming from the side that wants more free stuff. The other side seems to think the viewpoints are worlds apart.

    Saying that rewards should be increased is one thing; saying that there should be more opportunities to earn rewards is "not that different." I've seen both of those arguments in this and other threads, and they dovetail nicely.

    Saying that you should get rewards without having to earn them is quite different from either of these. Even small rewards are rewards, and you have to earn them through play. I have zero problems differentiating these viewpoints. It's like telling the bank they should be paying you interest even though you don't have any money deposited with them. And that you still want the free toaster (yes, I'm that old).
    Besides, the longer you play, and the better your roster is, the easier it is to get rewards.  That is a fact.  I can get to 1200+ in pvp in 20-25 wins, but other rosters require the full 40 wins to just to get the 4* cover.  I can reach top pve progression with "X" amount of play time, others require "X+an hour" to achieve the same goal.  
    You're completely correct that you can earn more and better rewards the longer you've played, and that you can earn them faster. But the key word in that sentence is "earn." You still have to put in the time and effort to get those rewards. Other people who haven't played for as long as you have to put in more time and effort for the same rewards. That's your bonus for longevity.
    Please stop looking at this as just "wanting something for free" and more of a "reward for reaching a milestone."
    I'm sorry, but that's what it is. You want something for doing nothing. Your rationale is that you've done the thing that got you the reward enough times that you shouldn't have to do it anymore. Are there games that reward you just for logging in on a given day, whether you play or not? Sure. Is this game one of them? Nope. But as soon as you actually play a match, there's something free waiting for you in the SHIELD resupply. And at least once a week, it's something significantly better than what I ever got from a "daily login freebie" game.
    I must say that spending whale points is an awesome suggestion, and is precisely what this thread should be discussing!
    I'd love to see how something like that could be implemented. It would be an interesting dichotomy having a choice to, for instance, spend the same number of points to skip a node as it costs to drop mega-whales. Then again, that's kinda what mega-whales already is, you just activate it from within the game, where you have to take some damage before you can drop it. But either way you'd have to earn those points first by playing the game.

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