The Most Uninspired Set in MTGPQ History: M19

babar3355

When I first looked through the M19 cards I was quite underwhelmed.  But I have been underwhelmed by previews before and  didn't see the strength of a new set until I played with the cards. Well, I have had some time to play and I will say.... meh.  Complete and utter meh.

Cards that could have been awesome like Apex of Power are ruined by exiling instead of discarding... Instead it's a much worse and more expensive Day's Undoing, which we already have in standard.  

There are a few playable creatures like Demanding Dragon and Hungering Hydra.. but most are overcosted and underpowered compared to the bombs released in Dominaria and the Ixalan block. (Notable exception to Isareth which looks awesome).

The spells and supports are even worse.  Banefire looks cool but is effectively a 10 mana burn spell for 14 mana.  Amulet of Safekeeping is a sideboard card vs. token PvE, Chaos Wand is a Pyro Goggles but much worse,  Isolate is expensive untargeted removal, Patient Rebuilding is virtually always worse than Azcanta. (much easier to abuse ones own GY). Ox Wand is gimmicky. Millstone is too weak to play.  Magistrate's Scepter is just terrible... KTS taught us that extra turns for extra turns sake are not particularly potent. 

And I can't actually say it gets much better at lower rarities. Sure there are a few solid rares, but most are unplayable.  There are some interesting U/C cards, but no more than other sets.

Add to that the rotation of the creature weak but spell strong HOU set and the game feels very boring.  It pretty much comes down to a lot of dinos, PGR decks, or STV abuse.  Honestly, doubt more than a handful of M19 cards will make it into any of my decks until Ixalan rotates out.  Not good. 

M19 has replaced BFZ as the most uninspired set in MTGPQ history.  Not a worthy distinction.

FindingHeart8

Hey now...I was actually a big fan of Battle for Zendikar!

Though...now that I think about it, the 3 sets of Eldrazi theme did get a bit old after a while (especially when it continued into Innistrad), so I get what you're saying.

Back on topic: I think this set's value might be determined by how awesome (or lack of awesome) the planeswalkers they're going to release to us are.

There's a few cards I'm a fan of.  The Vaheron Knight sword (I keep on forgetting the name) that spawns 2/2 knights (same style as Oath of Liliana but better because they have first strike and vigilance) is pretty neat, and it will be even neater when they fix the bug that makes it freeze the game lol.

I'll chime in when I eventually buy a second premium pack

babar3355

I guess my problem in general is there aren't many non-creatures that beg to be the focal point of a deck.   Cards like Primeval's Glorious Rebirth, Thran Temporal Gateway, Oath of Teffari, Karn's Temportal Sundering, Growing Rites of Itlomac, Vance's Blasting Station, Phyrexian Scriptures, Legion's Landing,  Arcane Adaptation, Lich's Mastery, Hadana's Climb, etc.  Those are just the standard ones off the top of my head that sing for a specific deck that can abuse a really interesting mechanic. 

M19 just has a dearth of interesting cards that sing in this manner.  Lilli's Contract perhaps.. Isareth sings for G/B GY abuse, although Rebirth already does that better.  

Some try to sing but come up flat (pun intended).. Sarkhan's Unsealing for instance.  I would lump Sigled Sword of Valeron in there... You have to have an attacking creature to create a token and it doesn't kill on enter... so no where close to as good as Oath of Lili... It also would make most sense in a knight deck for synergies so making something the knight subtype is only marginally beneficial. One with the Machine?¿?... just no!   

Theros

All previous sets in standard were more solid than m19, especially RiX and Dom. M19 does have the strongest masterpiece collection which is useless in term of card acquisition. 

wereotter

babar3355 said:

I guess my problem in general is there aren't many non-creatures that beg to be the focal point of a deck. 

Sarkhan's Unsealing looks like you could do a lot of damage by putting it out. Open the Graves as well looks like the cards that Lili 2 decks need to start recreating the zombie piles that have been missing since Innistrad (even if it can't bring back Prized Amalgam in standard events) 

In my view, however, it seems that in addition to Core sets in general being kind of "meh" is that the synergy for these cards was cut off when you look at how they're meant to interact with cards from Amonkhet. They can do this in paper Standard sine Amonkhet is still legal, but they can't here since it's not. Cards like Desecrated Tomb to combine with embalm/eternalize effects, or Windreader Sphinx with The Locust God.

Unknown

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TheDude1

Thank you Babar, you laid out my reaction exactly.  The packs I've opened have given me very little that I'm dying to use given everything else I've accumulated and experienced from other sets.

But I can't say I'm altogether surprised, as the point of the paper set appeared to be the entry point for players to expand into other blocks/mechanics, not an exciting new build unto itself.  Hence the whole point of calling it "Core" rather than some other unique name - it's almost by design meant to be "meh" to collaborate with other sets, both past and future, as the foundation.

This is why so many were thinking it might replace Origins here as the foundation set for new(er) players - that was the purpose in paper.  D3/Oktagon likely didn't have much latitude to sustain the power levels seen in the most recent sets because it just wasn't there in the paper version, and because of licensing couldn't deviate much from the paper setups.  Sure, they could have decided to keep the spirit of Core the same and replace Origins (which a lot of people were speculating) as the basis for introductory play, but that would created a ton of upheaval, likely just as much behind the scenes as from the user base.

It really seems they just didn't have many options here - they had to continue with Core mostly as is and integrate it as best as possible.  It doesn't change the end result - a very underwhelming release - but hopefully it's just the low point for a broader refresh going forward.

__Adam

I like it quite a bit so far, i feel like this is the healthiest the game's been since origins.  So far I haven't seen anything that's clearly brain dead broken like STV or Etali. 

James13

I have a few ideas for builds that wouldn't have been possible without M19 cards.

There is no strong theming by design because it's a core set.  I'm not sure why a set of what are supposed to be staples should have that held against it.

wereotter

TheDude1 said:

But I can't say I'm altogether surprised, as the point of the paper set appeared to be the entry point for players to expand into other blocks/mechanics, not an exciting new build unto itself.  Hence the whole point of calling it "Core" rather than some other unique name - it's almost by design meant to be "meh" to collaborate with other sets, both past and future, as the foundation.

Core sets, also, are meant to both provide staple cards for each color they always need legal in standard, and to patch up holes in broken mechanics from story sets. So when we look at this, they did do it. So to that end, we did get the cards we needed. Enchantment/artifact destruction in green? Yup, we got Naturalize and Reclamation Sage. 

Artifact removal in red? Again yup. We got Smelt and Goblin Trashmaster. Red burn spells? Again yes, Banefire, Shock, Lightning Strike, Lava Axe, and Fiery Finish all there.

Black kill spells? Not only yes, but massively yes with Murder, Lich's Caress, and an exile spell in Infernal Reckoning.

Blue seems to be the main one lacking here, and that's largely because cards they could have reprinted here already have cards. Some of the highlights include Cancel, Divination, Essence Scatter, and Disperse already exist. Here's where they need to make some of those cards legal again, even if they're not terribly amazing cards.

Main takeaway here is even if the cards here overall aren't amazing, they do provide us staple cards that we can use though all of the Ravnica block until the next core set comes out.

Gunmix25

babar3355 said:

When I first looked through the M19 cards I was quite underwhelmed.  But I have been underwhelmed by previews before and  didn't see the strength of a new set until I played with the cards. Well, I have had some time to play and I will say.... meh.  Complete and utter meh.

Cards that could have been awesome like Apex of Power are ruined by exiling instead of discarding... Instead it's a much worse and more expensive Day's Undoing, which we already have in standard.  

There are a few playable creatures like Demanding Dragon and Hungering Hydra.. but most are overcosted and underpowered compared to the bombs released in Dominaria and the Ixalan block. (Notable exception to Isareth which looks awesome).

The spells and supports are even worse.  Banefire looks cool but is effectively a 10 mana burn spell for 14 mana.  Amulet of Safekeeping is a sideboard card vs. token PvE, Chaos Wand is a Pyro Goggles but much worse,  Isolate is expensive untargeted removal, Patient Rebuilding is virtually always worse than Azcanta. (much easier to abuse ones own GY). Ox Wand is gimmicky. Millstone is too weak to play.  Magistrate's Scepter is just terrible... KTS taught us that extra turns for extra turns sake are not particularly potent. 

And I can't actually say it gets much better at lower rarities. Sure there are a few solid rares, but most are unplayable.  There are some interesting U/C cards, but no more than other sets.

Add to that the rotation of the creature weak but spell strong HOU set and the game feels very boring.  It pretty much comes down to a lot of dinos, PGR decks, or STV abuse.  Honestly, doubt more than a handful of M19 cards will make it into any of my decks until Ixalan rotates out.  Not good. 

M19 has replaced BFZ as the most uninspired set in MTGPQ history.  Not a worthy distinction.

I thought IXN was your most uninspired set? This post is mild compared to your rant about IXN back then. lol. Anyways... a couple of notes, the comparisons you are making are against Origin cards... designed and costed by Hibernium, whom you know was a bit more loose around the belt when it came to power hikes and under costing said power hikes. While you could argue that Oktagon should have made a side by side cost comparison but then we'd be back to the whole power creep issue.

That said, as far as sets go... M19 is more a filler set... same as it is for paper. Meant to compliment your cards from prior sets. It really is up to you to make the best of what is there. M19 certainly doesn't have that theme set feel like dominaria, Ixalan or rivals but that shouldn't be held against it considering the kind of set that it is... a hodgepodge of various cards and effects. I am excited about the new variations I could make for future builds. But I certainly wasn't expecting any game breaking cards and mythics. Which is a good thing really.

bk1234

I’m quite happy with the set. Leader is fun (tribal dragons with Oath of Teferi). Bolas 2 is super fun. Things work well in new standard. I disagree with this post 117%. 

Brakkis

wereotter said:
Sarkhan's Unsealing looks like you could do a lot of damage by putting it out.

If it was based on the current power of the creature going into play than certainly. But it's based on the creature's initial power and so a 2/2 that you've reinforced to 8/8 won't trigger Sarkhan's.

wereotter

Brakkis said:

wereotter said:
Sarkhan's Unsealing looks like you could do a lot of damage by putting it out.

If it was based on the current power of the creature going into play than certainly. But it's based on the creature's initial power and so a 2/2 that you've reinforced to 8/8 won't trigger Sarkhan's.

Which is as it should be. A 2/2 token isn’t an 8/8 creature. It’s still a 2/2 that’s been reinforced. There are a lot of creatures people play at 4 or more power that are good on their own that this just adds burn as an ETB effect, and a lot of good 7+ power creatures people already play too. 

Kinesia

Rather than seeing it as something to inspire new decks (which I sort've agree with you on), it has so far made EVERY one of my old decks better...

Knights and dragons and goblins and angels and grave games, almost everything I was already doing has pieces that fit in perfectly and work better than the old ones.

So... Yeah... This is a "glue" set which seems about right for core.

Gunmix25

Kinesia said:

Rather than seeing it as something to inspire new decks (which I sort've agree with you on), it has so far made EVERY one of my old decks better...

Knights and dragons and goblins and angels and grave games, almost everything I was already doing has pieces that fit in perfectly and work better than the old ones.

So... Yeah... This is a "glue" set which seems about right for core.

That and Squee has some definitive game value 

Mark_Tedin

I'll go further. The 2.8 update was the worst ever. First, the update crashed, and some mates lost the account. Second, the last powerful set (HOU) came out of the standard, along with HuF, Hour of Promise, Imminent Doom ... In THIRD PLACE, all our legacy decks were broken by the GREATEST NERF in game history. Yes, two whole cycling sets were nerf. I've been fixing my legacy decks for two days and I almost did not have time to play the events ... and still have the standard decks ... I never thought so seriously about leaving the game like now. Nerf legacy is the worst thing the game can do.   

Kinesia

Mark_Tedin said:

I'll go further. The 2.8 update was the worst ever. First, the update crashed, and some mates lost the account. Second, the last powerful set (HOU) came out of the standard, along with HuF, Hour of Promise, Imminent Doom ... In THIRD PLACE, all our legacy decks were broken by the GREATEST NERF in game history. Yes, two whole cycling sets were nerf. I've been fixing my legacy decks for two days and I almost did not have time to play the events ... and still have the standard decks ... I never thought so seriously about leaving the game like now. Nerf legacy is the worst thing the game can do.   

This is NOWHERE near the worst update ever, you must be new.

The worst was almost EVERYONE losing their accounts and needing them to be gotten back manually because FB was broken too.

Brakkis

I genuinely enjoy this update and I like a good number of the creatures. It just hurts more because of the loss of HoU and those powerhouse spells we lost with it while getting almost nothing to replace them.

TheDude1

Kinesia said:

Rather than seeing it as something to inspire new decks (which I sort've agree with you on), it has so far made EVERY one of my old decks better...

Knights and dragons and goblins and angels and grave games, almost everything I was already doing has pieces that fit in perfectly and work better than the old ones.

So... Yeah... This is a "glue" set which seems about right for core.

I completely agree with the idea that this was a "glue" set or "filler" or "staples" or whatever you want to call it.  The underwhelming factor is inextricably tied to the fact that it's pushing out a much-loved (and much-used) theme set in favor of a set that is more functional than sexy.  Once you view it for what it's intended to be, which I have after my "meh" reaction, it definitely works great.  I've already built a fun Jaya dragon deck and filled in some gaps from HoD losses.  It's not perfect, but expecting Core to be anything more than a solid foundation for building up other sets is very much square peg/round hole...

Firinmahlazer

Honestly this is about what I was expecting . Core really isn't apart of the MTG "story" from my understanding and a big part of it on paper is rehashing older cards to keep them in standard. While not an overly impressive set I'm definitely not disappointed by it .