*** Loki (Dark Reign) ***

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Comments

  • While it's not possible to verify completely, it appears that you do steal 2 random AP as opposed to 2 AP of a random color. This distinction is important because that means you won't steal a color with 0 AP in it. I've had cases where the enemy only has 2 colors with AP and I still stole from the 2 colors they have AP instead of nothing and while you can't prove it conclusively it sure looks like it's never stealing the color with 0. A color with 1 AP, of course, is still fair game.
  • Phantron wrote:
    While it's not possible to verify completely, it appears that you do steal 2 random AP as opposed to 2 AP of a random color. This distinction is important because that means you won't steal a color with 0 AP in it. I've had cases where the enemy only has 2 colors with AP and I still stole from the 2 colors they have AP instead of nothing and while you can't prove it conclusively it sure looks like it's never stealing the color with 0. A color with 1 AP, of course, is still fair game.

    Well, I assume Ice isn't lying to us...

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=20102&start=20#p262615
  • Daibar wrote:
    But if it's Daken vs Daken, and there are no reds initially, but one comes in, the AI Daken doesn't claim the red tiles either... definitely something I'll try to test next time I'm in a Loki Lightning round.
    Lerysh wrote:
    ^that right there is not true^

    If someone matches a green with no red on the board, in Daken V Daken, you get no Strike Tile, but if red drops in, the AI gets Strike Tiles. The timing is weird, and it's ONLY in Daken v Daken that this is true.

    Speed Shot works similarly to Mischief so I'd expect the result to be the same. If you Polarity Shift all the blue off the board, in 2 separate 4+ matches it will try to make Mischief tiles, fail, drop tiles on the board, and then try to make Mischief tiles a second time with whatever blue is out there. Speed Shot does the same thing with 2 crits. CDs, drop in tiles, CDs again for second trigger.

    You put doubt into me so I retested. With 2* daken to 2* daken, the enemy AI definitely does not trigger his ability if the red drops in if you were unable to put your strike tile in; it only triggers if you were able to first. If there was one blank red tile, and you take it with your strike tile, the enemy's daken will trigger only if another one drops in.


    It's a little annoying that both the PVE and PVP have Loki as required, considering he doesn't have that much health. Too many health packs used just on him.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I can say with 100% confidence that Loki will see some PvP play. Mischief is amazing, it's like we finally have a tool to fight against the "cheating" AI, as you almost don't care that match 4's are happening. Yes he is fragile, but it's not that difficult to keep him protected. I mean X-Force covers him on black and green, one just needs purple, and you could just not opt to match purple since it's not that hard to fall into 5 purple with X-Force blowing up the board and with Elektra coming out, you could have Electra, X-Force, Loki as a fun team and keep the trickster hidden. Deadpool and Daredevil will also keep him hidden and I tell you what, in this last PvP, when I was going against maxed 5/3/5 Loki's at 8K health, it was very annoying and he could turn a simple tile match into death.
  • He's more interesting to fight than The Hood since Mischief can be worked around while Dormammu's Aid just takes all your AP unless you somehow kept a board with 20 TUs going. I think Mischief can end up being as crippling as Dormammu's Aid, but at least Loki pretends you have a say in the matter while The Hood does not.
  • Wolarsen
    Wolarsen Posts: 326 Mover and Shaker
    I must compliment D3 for the outcome of the buffed Loki. You made him interesting and put him into usable land with a very fine balance, while keeping character flavour. Good job.
  • eidehua
    eidehua Posts: 521 Critical Contributor
    I remember the fights against max loki/4thor/xforce using my 215 xforce/166 hood/1 green loki. It wasn't pleasant, and I really need to get out of the habit of matching 4 against loki.
  • First off I wanna say a HUGE thank you to whoever thought up the idea of mischief. When I used Loki previously I only did so with him as a TU. But now he is actually playable and contributing as a proper teammate.

    That said, I personally feel his health is still WAAAYYY too low for a god. For a character with no offensive skills or healing he's still in the 5k range. His health should definitely get a bump up to Wolvie's or in the 7k range.

    But that's my personal opinion. Perhaps the good forumites here can weigh in to agree or disagree on why he shouldn't get a bump up further. One thing I can think of is that he's VERY VERY annoying to fight with mischief already but I don't let that stop me from taking him on at 166. I'm pretty sure I'd hit him even if his health was 6800 or 7k+. Though 8500 might be overdoing it a teensy bit. icon_e_ugeek.gif
  • GothicKratos
    GothicKratos Posts: 1,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    I feel like supports should be pretty squishy. It's a risk vs reward thing.
  • I feel like supports should be pretty squishy. It's a risk vs reward thing.

    I throughly agree. But Squishy in the 6800 range seems more fair. It's not befitting of a God to be 5900 imho.

    Loki is saddened that he can't take more beatings. icon_redface.gif
  • Gowaderacer
    Gowaderacer Posts: 310 Mover and Shaker
    I think that out of all of the characters in the game, Loki's powers are the most "in character" and line up with his personality in the comics including his health. He may be a God but he is never on the front lines and would go down quickly if in a head in confrontation with most of the other characters in the game.
  • MarcusGraves
    MarcusGraves Posts: 494 Mover and Shaker
    Deadpooool wrote:
    I feel like supports should be pretty squishy. It's a risk vs reward thing.

    I throughly agree. But Squishy in the 6800 range seems more fair. It's not befitting of a God to be 5900 imho.

    Loki is saddened that he can't take more beatings. icon_redface.gif

    sorry but no way, now that loki has the ability to do such huge swings of AP steal his HP cap will never come close to 6800. don't care if he's a god, someone that can very likely steal 16 AP in one turn with 2 triggers of mischief should not have HP higher than 5950.
  • evil panda
    evil panda Posts: 419 Mover and Shaker
    so just so i'm clear, this thread is saying that Loki is too....low key?



    (ducks before the tomatoes come flying)
  • evil panda wrote:
    so just so i'm clear, this thread is saying that Loki is too....low key?



    (ducks before the tomatoes come flying)


    Get off the stage before I take away your bamboo shoots. icon_mrgreen.gif
  • ronin_san
    ronin_san Posts: 980 Critical Contributor
    evil panda wrote:
    so just so i'm clear, this thread is saying that Loki is too....low key?



    (ducks before the tomatoes come flying)


    There I have you, my good doctor. In battle, you must always chose the *lesser* of two weevils.
  • Oh Gad... My thread is gonna turn into a contest of puns isn't it....
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Deadpooool wrote:
    First off I wanna say a HUGE thank you to whoever thought up the idea of mischief. When I used Loki previously I only did so with him as a TU. But now he is actually playable and contributing as a proper teammate.

    That said, I personally feel his health is still WAAAYYY too low for a god. For a character with no offensive skills or healing he's still in the 5k range. His health should definitely get a bump up to Wolvie's or in the 7k range.

    But that's my personal opinion. Perhaps the good forumites here can weigh in to agree or disagree on why he shouldn't get a bump up further. One thing I can think of is that he's VERY VERY annoying to fight with mischief already but I don't let that stop me from taking him on at 166. I'm pretty sure I'd hit him even if his health was 6800 or 7k+. Though 8500 might be overdoing it a teensy bit. icon_e_ugeek.gif

    I think of it this way. You don't defeat Loki, he's just saying, mehh, I'm out of here, this isn't worth my time. So while it says you downed Loki it's probably one of his shadow self's as he wouldn't care much about anything that doesn't benefit him, let alone helping you out by being stronger, so sure you can have Loki on your team, but he's only half assing it because he's got better things to do
  • So what phaser hawk is saying is that Loki is super OP like beast. I mean the blue furry would destroy the other team but he is to busy reading his book to be bothered
  • Dauthi
    Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    Loki was my first 166 3*. If anyone thinks he isn't good for pvp or pve, they haven't test driven him. His purple was already a good cheap purple, his black was a great situational ability, and now we have mischief. He has taken over Hood's spot in my team.
  • I use Loki for PvE just because The Hood bores me to sleep, though Loki's higher HP does matter a lot for PvE too when your enemies can drop 4 digit matches on you. For PvP will probably still have to consider the team restrictions. Loki covers purple strongly which is usually more useful than The Hood covering yellow weakly but The Hood is probably still better overall.

    If Trickery isn't extremely situational they'll have to nerf Illusions by a lot. As is right now Illusions is sort of roughly equal to two top tier but balanced ability while Trickery usually has no use at all so it sort of works out.

    One thing I thought might be interesting is if you have Intimidation at level 5 and do an Intimidation after the opponent has a huge cascade, as that'd immediately trigger all your Mischief tiles which is pretty much like getting that mega cascade yourself, since the AI never uses any moves after they moved a tile regardless of how much AP or how many extra turns they get. Wouldn't make sense to try to play with this strategy, but it'd be unbelievably cool when you pull it off.