*** Loki (Dark Reign) ***
Comments
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Quebbster wrote:
3Lerysh wrote:A 3
Trickery Loki works with a 3 
Berserker Rage Patch. Patch is a suboptimal build though. And it won't help that much against someone like Magneto, Falcon or even Bullseye.
Depends on playstyle. Three green is a lower-risk build, and I prefer it. If you're using Patch primarily to climb against 94s without taking much damage, it makes sense. If you're using him against 166s primarily, you'll probably want 5/3/5.0 -
His pink is annoying, has a painfully slow animation and typically resorts in a whole lot of nothin'. I'm happy with the new green as the AI is constantly getting match-4s and a passive green is the best kind of green. With any other character the only scale on which we can judge a green power is, "is it better than X-Force?" The answer is always a big fat "NO". And I like any power that counters the ridiculous cascades that fall into the AI's lap. 3/5/5 for me!0
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I'm not sure you need to have 5 in two skills as they all seem very useful on level 4 as well.
- Trickery transforms 5 tiles, which is enough to at least give you the upper hand even against heavy tile makers like Magneto or Falcon.
- Illusions, as mentioned, may not need the last cover in order to change all the tiles on a team-up-tile heavy board
- Misdirection gets the 2 turn countdown, which is incredibly important. Obviously the extra countdown on level 5 is also good, but if you steal random AP the question is if you get anything worthwhile from it.0 -
daibar wrote:I really don't like his new ability. It punishes you for playing well. Now if you chain 4's, you're hit with multiple rounds of AP steal, which could also lead to cascades for the AI.
It punishes you for playing in a direct and predictable fashion, so yes very Loki like, I approve.0 -
I think 5 green is a low-risk build because once I use Berserker Rage the game ends very soon, usually with me as the winner.Ben Grimm wrote:Depends on playstyle. Three green is a lower-risk build, and I prefer it. If you're using Patch primarily to climb against 94s without taking much damage, it makes sense. If you're using him against 166s primarily, you'll probably want 5/3/5.
But yes, it does backfire on occassion, but not as often as you'd think if you play it smart.
I used to have a 3/5/5 Patch, but then I realized I used his Red only rarely and it wasn't worth the trouble of building around him. Of course by that point I had several other fully leveled 3* characters - if Patch is your main high-level 3* it's probably better to go 3/5/5 and play it safe.
(and yes, I do face mostly 166s in PvP.
) 0 -
I think it's pretty obvious the best route will be 3 / 5
/ 5
It doesn't make sense to level a skill that is situational at best and with X-Force around it's not like shields or attack tiles stay very long, but stealing their AP on match 4's is going to be very nice. I see Loki as a nice Hood alternate, in theory Loki could steal more AP than Hood but on average Hood will probably steal more consistently albeit not in the amounts Loki can do it. In the end if they don't boost Loki's hit points enough it won't help him alot, which I don't understand why Loki doesn't have massive hitpoints, I mean he is a Frost Giant and in terms of Marvel Strength meter he can lift 30 tons, so it's not like he's a wuss, if Loki got into the 6800 range for health I would be happy, even though he should be more like 8500 if we are talking about being true to comics, just like a few of the 8500's should be 6800's and 6800's should be 8500's, but I digress.0 -
Will Loki be the following, with his power order the same as his tile damages? Or will his powers be in the wrong order for some reason?
[anchor=loki3]Loki (Dark Reign)[/anchor]
3 Star Rarity (Rare) Discussion link
At Max Level: HP: 5950 Tile damage: 12/11/13/79/61/70
You can’t count on anything when Loki’s around. Changes the location of 14 colored tiles.
Level Upgrades
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Level 2: Changes the location of 18 colored tiles.
Level 3: Changes the location of 22 colored tiles.
Level 4: Changes the location of 26 colored tiles.
Level 5: Changes the location of 32 colored tiles.
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Trickery - Black 11
Loki's trickery turns the enemy's tools against them. Transforms 1 enemy Strike tile into a friendly Protect tile and 1 enemy Protect tile into a friendly Strike tile.-
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Loki steals 2 Strike and Protect tiles.
Level 3: Loki steals 3 Strike and Protect tiles.
Level 4: Loki steals 5 Strike and Protect tiles.
Level 5: Loki steals all Strike and Protect tiles.
(PASSIVE) Loki is consumed by a cold rage as he moves to undermine his enemies. If the enemy team makes a match-4 of any color, Loki converts 2 basic tiles of that color into 4-turn Countdown tiles which steal 2 AP of a random color.
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Level Upgrades
Level 2: Countdown tiles last 3 turns.
Level 3: Loki creates 3 Countdown tiles.
Level 4: Countdown tiles last 2 turns.
Level 5: Loki creates 4 Countdown tiles.
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That's the way it looks in the roster.Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:Will Loki be the following, with his power order the same as his tile damages? Or will his powers be in the wrong order for some reason?
[anchor=loki3]Loki (Dark Reign)[/anchor]
3 Star Rarity (Rare) Discussion link
At Max Level: HP: 5950 Tile damage: 12/11/13/79/61/70
You can’t count on anything when Loki’s around. Changes the location of 14 colored tiles.
Level Upgrades
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Level 2: Changes the location of 18 colored tiles.
Level 3: Changes the location of 22 colored tiles.
Level 4: Changes the location of 26 colored tiles.
Level 5: Changes the location of 32 colored tiles.
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Trickery - Black 11
Loki's trickery turns the enemy's tools against them. Transforms 1 enemy Strike tile into a friendly Protect tile and 1 enemy Protect tile into a friendly Strike tile.-
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Loki steals 2 Strike and Protect tiles.
Level 3: Loki steals 3 Strike and Protect tiles.
Level 4: Loki steals 5 Strike and Protect tiles.
Level 5: Loki steals all Strike and Protect tiles.
(PASSIVE) Loki is consumed by a cold rage as he moves to undermine his enemies. If the enemy team makes a match-4 of any color, Loki converts 2 basic tiles of that color into 4-turn Countdown tiles which steal 2 AP of a random color.
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Level Upgrades
Level 2: Countdown tiles last 3 turns.
Level 3: Loki creates 3 Countdown tiles.
Level 4: Countdown tiles last 2 turns.
Level 5: Loki creates 4 Countdown tiles.
Trickery is at the bottom of the list. 0 -
Nope... looking at the roster, Loki is still on the mismatch list.
Tile Dam .. Ability colors
-- - Beast (Modern)
-- - Black Widow (Grey Suit) -- - Captain Marvel (Modern) -- - Daken (both versions) -- - Deadpool (It's Me, Deadpool) -- 
- Doctor Doom (Classic) -- - Hawkeye (Modern) -- - Iron Man -- - Loki (Dark Reign) -- - Magneto (Classic) -- - Spider-Man (Classic) -- - Venom (Dark Avengers) 0 -
Maybe I should have looked atNonce Equitaur 2 wrote:Nope... looking at the roster, Loki is still on the mismatch list.
Tile Dam .. Ability colors -- - Beast (Modern) -- - Black Widow (Grey Suit) -- - Captain Marvel (Modern) -- - Daken (both versions) -- - Deadpool (It's Me, Deadpool) -- - Doctor Doom (Classic) -- - Hawkeye (Modern) -- - Iron Man -- - Loki (Dark Reign) -- - Magneto (Classic) -- - Spider-Man (Classic) -- - Venom (Dark Avengers) and too huh? 0 -
But I'd definitely prefer the option of having that situation in play, rather than maxing purple when, according to viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18598, going from 3 to 5 only gets you about an extra 1/4 of an AP on average.Phaserhawk wrote:I think it's pretty obvious the best route will be 3 / 5 / 5
It doesn't make sense to level a skill that is situational at best and with X-Force around it's not like shields or attack tiles stay very long0 -
I don't think there is one pretty obvious build for Loki now. It really depends on what you use him for. My initial instincts were 5/4/4 or 5/3/5. I have only ever used Loki with Patch or in a high level PVE where the enemy team includes CMags/Falcon/any other tile spammers. Anything less than 5 in black would make him useless for what I currently use him for. And the drop in potential cascades is minimal according to NP's simulator.
You can't always judge a character's build by comparison with XForce/4Thor/flavor of the month. I'm still never going to use Loki in a PVP event unless he is required, so I don't really care about how XForce makes his black irrelevant.0 -
I'm leaning towards 4/4/5. I think the 4-5 jumps for black and purple really aren't that big a deal; 5-all is only going to occasionally make a difference, and, as has been pointed out elsewhere, the difference between 4-5 on purple averages something like 1 tile.0
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Well here are the current reasons to have Trickery maxed
Blade
Daken
Falcon
Gamora
Magneto
Patch is conditional, if you have him 5/3/5 then perhaps, but even if you had it at level 4, you still would get 5 out of the 6, and it won't be doing any damage anyway
Black Panther, Beast, Captain America, Rocket and Groot unless they got way out of control could maybe justify, but these are outliers.
Of the 5 that can't be dealt with without max level, I'm not really worried about Gamora and Falcon you don't really see in PvP, or in PvE much unless in Simulator. In PvE you will see Daken and Magneto the most as opponents and even then I think they can be easily handled with a level 4 Trickery.
In PvP you will see Magneto and Daken and perhaps Patch as well, but once again between a few matches and flipping 5 of their tiles in your favor, with Magneto you will still be up if you took 5 of the 9, thus negating Coeircive Field, Daken would need more than 10 tiles out for you to be missing level 5, same with Gamora.
Falcon is the only opponent who if resovles Bird Strike could sill end up ahead of you without a maxed Trickery, and I'm not too worried about that, I think 4/4/5 is probably the way to go. While 5 in Illusions is probably better after a Polarizing Force and Mistress of the Elements I'm not too worried as I don't really see myself playing Loki and Magneto or Loki and Storm together, and again Magneto is the only character you are going to see on a regular basis in both PvE and PvP to potentially justify 5 in Illusions.
If NP's stats of cascades etc. are fairly accurate we are talking small gains in Illusions past level 3 just like we are talking about small gains in Trickery past level 4. The only skill I see being worth all 5 is probably going to be Mischief just because you increase the chance of stealing AP by adding another tile. Honestly I think 4/4/5, 3/5/5, 5/3/5 wil in 99% of the matches be the exact same in terms of use.
If Loki ends up playing well with X-Force I will probably go 3 / 5 / 5 just because I won't be needing Trickery at all, if Loki plays better PvE then maybe 5 in Trickery will be the way to go just in case some strike tile producing goons go crazy on you, but in the end if you max Mischief it really wont matter what the other 2 are as for once there really isn't much of an advantage between level 3, 4, or 5 in Trickery and Illusions. 0 -
Phaserhawk wrote:I think it's pretty obvious the best route will be 3 / 5 / 5
It doesn't make sense to level a skill that is situational at best and with X-Force around it's not like shields or attack tiles stay very long, but stealing their AP on match 4's is going to be very nice. I see Loki as a nice Hood alternate, in theory Loki could steal more AP than Hood but on average Hood will probably steal more consistently albeit not in the amounts Loki can do it. In the end if they don't boost Loki's hit points enough it won't help him alot, which I don't understand why Loki doesn't have massive hitpoints, I mean he is a Frost Giant and in terms of Marvel Strength meter he can lift 30 tons, so it's not like he's a wuss, if Loki got into the 6800 range for health I would be happy, even though he should be more like 8500 if we are talking about being true to comics, just like a few of the 8500's should be 6800's and 6800's should be 8500's, but I digress.
Wow. So much nonsense.
Loki will never be used to feed xforce. Even OBW would be a better choice, if we completely ignored the existence of hood and mystique. "Wait until the opponent matches 4 or 5 and wait 2 more turns and hope the random ap is black" is not the fastest route to surgical.
His main use is and always will be making sure you're not stuck doing 1 to your opponent every turn because of too many protect tiles. His secondary use is to make zerker rage a shutout instead of merely very good.
This character is FUN, people. That's all he's ever going to be, and that's all he was ever meant to be. He's not going to set pvp on fire.0 -
I'm keeping 5 in black because I still think I'm going to be using Loki primarily with Patch (5/3/5 build) or in PvE against enemies like Daken, Blade, Falcon, or cMags who can fill the board with strike or protect tiles.
From there, I'm thinking either 4 purple/4 green or 3 purple/5 green. Haven't decided yet. The board shake is nice but should be sufficient for my purposes at level 3 or 4, and I'll have to play with green a bit and see how often it triggers to decide if it's worth maxing.0 -
I wonder if Loki could fill a gap between Thor4+XForce, eg an unconventional hood.
Loki's Pink allows you to collect charged tiles easier, and green could let you steal the occasional AP. Unfortunately, there is a small danger on defense of his Black firing off on defense if the enemy has a few strike tiles out.
3/5/5 or 4/5/4 looks better to me. Even with a 5/3/5 Patch, giving the enemy 1 strike tile to 11 of my own isn't going to result in that much self damage.0 -
I was really hoping for some sort of offensive ability instead of just more utility/defense. I can't say I'm very excited about the change, but it is long overdue regardless.0
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Jathro wrote:I was really hoping for some sort of offensive ability instead of just more utility/defense. I can't say I'm very excited about the change, but it is long overdue regardless.
Me too. I was really hoping for something that dropped shield and strike tiles for trickery to operate on. A passive that randomly creates either one shield or one strike for each team would have been perfect.0 -
Here are Loki's stats for illusions when run in the simulator. This is strong evidence for why any 5 purple build is marginal.
You can’t count on anything when Loki’s around. Changes the location of 14 colored tiles.
Probability of a cascade occurring: 0.6881280000000001
Average tiles destroyed: 6.029014
Average Tiles destroyed by color:
YELLOW: 0.936542 tiles destroyed
PURPLE: 0.937994 tiles destroyed
TEAMUP: 0.409472 tiles destroyed
BLUE: 0.933416 tiles destroyed
RED: 0.936088 tiles destroyed
BLACK: 0.936684 tiles destroyed
GREEN: 0.938818 tiles destroyed
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Level 2: Changes the location of 18 colored tiles.
Probability of a cascade occurring: 0.72986
Average tiles destroyed: 6.767658
Average Tiles destroyed by color:
YELLOW: 1.050648 tiles destroyed
PURPLE: 1.05467 tiles destroyed
TEAMUP: 0.464912 tiles destroyed
BLUE: 1.049222 tiles destroyed
RED: 1.048222 tiles destroyed
BLACK: 1.052072 tiles destroyed
GREEN: 1.047912 tiles destroyed
Level 3: Changes the location of 22 colored tiles.
Probability of a cascade occurring: 0.750724
Average tiles destroyed: 7.2153
Average Tiles destroyed by color:
YELLOW: 1.119284 tiles destroyed
PURPLE: 1.120554 tiles destroyed
TEAMUP: 0.495888 tiles destroyed
BLUE: 1.123598 tiles destroyed
RED: 1.118448 tiles destroyed
BLACK: 1.119518 tiles destroyed
GREEN: 1.11801 tiles destroyed
Level 4: Changes the location of 26 colored tiles.
Probability of a cascade occurring: 0.759622
Average tiles destroyed: 7.399498
Average Tiles destroyed by color:
YELLOW: 1.146806 tiles destroyed
PURPLE: 1.150456 tiles destroyed
TEAMUP: 0.510474 tiles destroyed
BLUE: 1.14881 tiles destroyed
RED: 1.149742 tiles destroyed
BLACK: 1.14733 tiles destroyed
GREEN: 1.14588 tiles destroyed
Level 5: Changes the location of 32 colored tiles.
Probability of a cascade occurring: 0.759988
Average tiles destroyed: 7.432984
Average Tiles destroyed by color:
YELLOW: 1.160318 tiles destroyed
PURPLE: 1.152388 tiles destroyed
TEAMUP: 0.50907 tiles destroyed
BLUE: 1.15506 tiles destroyed
RED: 1.151638 tiles destroyed
BLACK: 1.152512 tiles destroyed
GREEN: 1.151998 tiles destroyed
Illusions Used Right After Polarizing Force- Purple 5
You can’t count on anything when Loki’s around. Changes the location of 14 colored tiles.
Probability of a cascade occurring: 0.79647
Average tiles destroyed: 8.551478
Average Tiles destroyed by color:
BLACK: 1.392442 tiles destroyed
TEAMUP: 0.194494 tiles destroyed
RED: 1.392654 tiles destroyed
GREEN: 1.392828 tiles destroyed
PURPLE: 1.390598 tiles destroyed
YELLOW: 1.39293 tiles destroyed
BLUE: 1.395532 tiles destroyed-
Level 2: Changes the location of 18 colored tiles.
Probability of a cascade occurring: 0.8378220000000001
Average tiles destroyed: 9.740064
Average Tiles destroyed by color:
BLACK: 1.585076 tiles destroyed
TEAMUP: 0.224488 tiles destroyed
RED: 1.590054 tiles destroyed
GREEN: 1.58356 tiles destroyed
PURPLE: 1.587174 tiles destroyed
YELLOW: 1.583846 tiles destroyed
BLUE: 1.585866 tiles destroyed
Level 3: Changes the location of 22 colored tiles.
Probability of a cascade occurring: 0.859708
Average tiles destroyed: 10.538032
Average Tiles destroyed by color:
BLACK: 1.713142 tiles destroyed
TEAMUP: 0.24264 tiles destroyed
RED: 1.716022 tiles destroyed
GREEN: 1.713856 tiles destroyed
PURPLE: 1.716996 tiles destroyed
YELLOW: 1.716912 tiles destroyed
BLUE: 1.718464 tiles destroyed
Level 4: Changes the location of 26 colored tiles.
Average tiles destroyed: 10.979988
Average Tiles destroyed by color:
BLACK: 1.784592 tiles destroyed
TEAMUP: 0.254284 tiles destroyed
RED: 1.792782 tiles destroyed
GREEN: 1.7833 tiles destroyed
PURPLE: 1.78927 tiles destroyed
YELLOW: 1.788108 tiles destroyed
BLUE: 1.787652 tiles destroyed
Level 5: Changes the location of 32 colored tiles.
Probability of a cascade occurring: 0.877366
Average tiles destroyed: 11.208996
Average Tiles destroyed by color:
BLACK: 1.825024 tiles destroyed
TEAMUP: 0.2625 tiles destroyed
RED: 1.822766 tiles destroyed
GREEN: 1.82243 tiles destroyed
PURPLE: 1.82404 tiles destroyed
YELLOW: 1.822218 tiles destroyed
BLUE: 1.830018 tiles destroyed
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