*** Loki (Dark Reign) ***

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Comments

  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've apparently been severely underrating his purple, since after using it in the current PvP, it's clear that it's a very powerful and cheap ability. Given that we have next to 0 good / cheap purple abilities in the game, I would say that Loki becomes immediately playable if given a decent, third active skill. It doesn't even matter if black gets buffed or not, purple + another good active + 166 will single handedly propel him into usable / high tier.
  • areacode212areacode212 Posts: 150 Tile Toppler
    It would be nice if he was less squishy. The guy is a god, he should technically be able to take more punishment than most of the roster.
  • I don't think there should be abilities that do nothing unless a special circumstance is met. I don't mind Loki's cost for Trickery, but I think if there are no protect/strike tiles on the enemy team, that it should create random protect/strike (and maybe attack) tiles on all the black tiles on the board. They don't have to be super strong, but *something* would be nice.
  • OnesOwnGriefOnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    john1620b wrote:
    I don't think there should be abilities that do nothing unless a special circumstance is met. I don't mind Loki's cost for Trickery, but I think if there are no protect/strike tiles on the enemy team, that it should create random protect/strike (and maybe attack) tiles on all the black tiles on the board. They don't have to be super strong, but *something* would be nice.
    Idk, the fact he requires tiles on the board kinda makes him foolproof on defense when paired with Patch. If he has the Black, it will ALWAYS fire right after Berserker Rage. The only real way to shake that up is throwing your own tiles out early so you can grab those rage strike tiles later.
  • Pwuz_Pwuz_ Posts: 1,170 Chairperson of the Boards
    john1620b wrote:
    I don't think there should be abilities that do nothing unless a special circumstance is met. I don't mind Loki's cost for Trickery, but I think if there are no protect/strike tiles on the enemy team, that it should create random protect/strike (and maybe attack) tiles on all the black tiles on the board. They don't have to be super strong, but *something* would be nice.

    What if perhaps his green ability generated strike tiles or defensive tiles for the opposing team as well (sorta like Patch). That way he wouldn't need to play with or against particular characters to ensure his Black has a target?

    How about something like:
    Misdirection - Green 11 AP
    Loki tricks his opponents into thinking he is being damaged, but he turns their attacks back upon them. Creates a 2 turn Green countdown tile. As long as the tile is active, each time Loki is damaged changes two basic color tiles into strike tiles of half the value of the damage he just took, one for each team. Recovers X health when the timer goes off.
    Level Upgrades:
    Level 2: Loki's tile gets 2/3 of the power, the enemy teams tile gets 1/3
    Level 3: Increases Healing for countdown timer going off.
    Level 4: Extends the countdown timer to 3 turns.
    Level 5: Ability activates for Loki's teammates being damaged as well.
  • OnesOwnGriefOnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    If I remember correctly, old trickery did exactly that. Threw up a bunch of special tiles randomly that was either attack, strike, or protect. I don't think we will ever see that again.
  • john1620bjohn1620b Posts: 367
    edited September 2014
    If I remember correctly, old trickery did exactly that. Threw up a bunch of special tiles randomly that was either attack, strike, or protect. I don't think we will ever see that again.
    Really? I don't remember that, and it's not listed anywhere -- but if so, it's a shame they decided to change that.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    If I remember correctly, old trickery did exactly that. Threw up a bunch of special tiles randomly that was either attack, strike, or protect. I don't think we will ever see that again.
    ... except for Beast maybe... icon_e_confused.gif
  • atomzedatomzed Posts: 1,598 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've apparently been severely underrating his purple, since after using it in the current PvP, it's clear that it's a very powerful and cheap ability. Given that we have next to 0 good / cheap purple abilities in the game, I would say that Loki becomes immediately playable if given a decent, third active skill. It doesn't even matter if black gets buffed or not, purple + another good active + 166 will single handedly propel him into usable / high tier.

    Fully agree. His purple is very good, even though it is unpredictable in effect. A 5ap board reset is worth it imho.

    I just want him to have 3rd ability and he will be good enough for me to use him.
  • MarcusGravesMarcusGraves Posts: 494 Mover and Shaker
    first really he needs a HP bump to 6800, current amount doesn't make much sense, he's not some kinda super nuker in damage.

    honestly I'd love to see trickery be made into a passive that would steal a random enemy special tile whenever he makes a black match.

    Trickery (passive): when Loki (tile must have his icon on it to work) makes a black match he converts a random enemy protect tile to a friendly protect tile

    Rank 2: converts enemy protect and attack tiles
    Rank 3: converts enemy protect, attack and strike tiles
    Rank 4: converts enemy protect, attack, strike and countdown tiles
    Rank 5: converts 2 enemy special tiles instead of 1

    problem is i'm not sure if this would be too strong of a passive, would need opinions.

    as for another active power that would fall under green since its his 3rd color it really should be something that offers more board control since that seems to be what they want him to do. even though its not super reliable the trap mechanic like what DD/fury has would be very fitting for him and should maybe have a bonus effect if you match one of the traps with your illusions power for some synergy among his powers.

    just thoughts
  • SandmakerSandmaker Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
    first really he needs a HP bump to 6800, current amount doesn't make much sense, he's not some kinda super nuker in damage.

    honestly I'd love to see trickery be made into a passive that would steal a random enemy special tile whenever he makes a black match.

    Trickery (passive): when Loki (tile must have his icon on it to work) makes a black match he converts a random enemy protect tile to a friendly protect tile

    Rank 2: converts enemy protect and attack tiles
    Rank 3: converts enemy protect, attack and strike tiles
    Rank 4: converts enemy protect, attack, strike and countdown tiles
    Rank 5: converts 2 enemy special tiles instead of 1

    problem is i'm not sure if this would be too strong of a passive, would need opinions.

    as for another active power that would fall under green since its his 3rd color it really should be something that offers more board control since that seems to be what they want him to do. even though its not super reliable the trap mechanic like what DD/fury has would be very fitting for him and should maybe have a bonus effect if you match one of the traps with your illusions power for some synergy among his powers.

    just thoughts

    I think this might be too strong, especially in pve. Compare it to redwing for example, which only removes a single tile every 3 turns (although generally faster since you can match it away), and is already borderline OP in pve.
  • MarcusGravesMarcusGraves Posts: 494 Mover and Shaker
    Sandmaker wrote:

    I think this might be too strong, especially in pve. Compare it to redwing for example, which only removes a single tile every 3 turns (although generally faster since you can match it away), and is already borderline OP in pve.

    it would probably need some penalties then, ditch stealing CD tiles, maybe make it so stolen tiles only give 25% of their original value so something like

    Trickery (passive): when Loki (tile must have his icon on it to work) makes a black match he converts a random enemy protect tile to a friendly protect tile

    Rank 2: converts enemy protect and attack tiles
    Rank 3: stolen tiles have 35% of original value
    Rank 4: converts enemy protect, attack and strike tiles
    Rank 5: stolen tiles have 45% of original value

    this should look a little less broken and spread out better.

    -Loki must make the make for it to work
    -ditched taking 2 tiles at max and taking CD tiles
    -added percentage penalty for more balance.
  • Pwuz_Pwuz_ Posts: 1,170 Chairperson of the Boards
    Trickery (passive): when Loki (tile must have his icon on it to work) makes a black match he converts a random enemy protect tile to a friendly protect tile

    Rank 2: converts enemy protect and attack tiles
    Rank 3: converts enemy protect, attack and strike tiles
    Rank 4: converts enemy protect, attack, strike and countdown tiles
    Rank 5: converts 2 enemy special tiles instead of 1
    Sandmaker wrote:
    I think this might be too strong, especially in pve. Compare it to redwing for example, which only removes a single tile every 3 turns (although generally faster since you can match it away), and is already borderline OP in pve.

    Redwing isn't directly comparable though since once you have 5 Blue, it activates no matter how Blue starved the board is. Honestly how many times can you match Black before the board becomes starved?

    I also like how the current version swaps protect tiles with strike tiles and vice versa.
    I think that your original idea is better, with an additional handicap that gets dropped at Level 4.

    How about:
    Trickery (passive): when Loki (tile must have his icon on it to work) makes a black match he converts a random enemy protect tile to a friendly strike tile. If his opponents have no appropriate tiles, randomly generates one protect tile with a strength of x for them.
    Level 2: Loki also changes one enemy strike tile into a protect tile as well. (So one of each)
    Level 3: Loki also destroys one random black tile doing damage for the extra tile, but does not generate AP.
    Level 4: If opponents have no appropriate tiles, randomly generates one protect and strike tile each with a strength of x for Loki's team.
    Level 5: Matches made by Loki's team activates ability.

    I think that with Loki also destroying an extra Black tile for each match, it will make it less likely that another match will be as easy to create.
  • Considering how IceIX recently mentioned his love for use of Loki's trickery after Patch's Berserker Rage, I don't think they'll be changing the ability any time soon.
    Something like OBW's espionage would be neat.

    Fiendish Plotting - Green (Passive) greenflag.png
    Loki sets up future distractions as he attacks. When he attacks by making a Purple Match purpletile.png , he creates a 3-turn countdown tile on a random tile of the same color which self-destructs, but not generating AP.
    Level Upgrades:
      Level 2: Also creates countdown when making a black match
    blacktile.png .
    Level 3: Also creates countdown when making a green match greentile.png .
    Level 4: Countdown timer is reduced to 2.
    Level 5: Can also overwrite enemy tiles.


    It's a minor board shake-up ability, which also helps to polarize the board and make Illusions even more effective. I thought about adding in generated AP, but I think then it would be too strong.
  • A third ability will fix most of his issues... maybe a bit of an hp boost
  • An idea - he has an ability that randomly triggers one other ability, for either side, picked at random. The various levels make it more likely to pick your own side (one cover 50/50, two covers 60/40, etc.), but he could always set off your opponents.
  • y2fitzyy2fitzy Posts: 255 Mover and Shaker
    I don't think I've enjoyed another PVP quite as much as the Loki one, it was great. The number of cascades he manages to create with his purple (even with my meagre three covers) was amazing.
  • optimizaoptimiza Posts: 127 Tile Toppler
    I think this would also be a cool ability:

    Fiendish Plotting (Passive) greenflag.png

    Loki works behind the scenes to ensure his victory. Influences the starting number of black gems on the board.

    Level 1: Guarantees 10 black gems on the board.
    Level 2: Guarantees 12 black gems on the board.
    Level 3: Guarantees 14 black gems on the board.
    Level 4: Guarantees 17 black gems on the board.
    Level 5: Guarantees 20 black gems on the board.


    Possibly too powerful, but seems flavorful. Since on average you should see 8 gems of a single color on the board, this simply ups that number. At level 5, this probably gives you a strong chance at a match 5 on your first turn. He would then end up being Doom/Panther's best friend with this skill.
  • Ben Grimm wrote:
    An idea - he has an ability that randomly triggers one other ability, for either side, picked at random. The various levels make it more likely to pick your own side (one cover 50/50, two covers 60/40, etc.), but he could always set off your opponents.

    Unless this cost like... 3 green I would never use it. Downside is to great, even as high as 80%/20%. You lose matches when the enemy gets abilities off and you want to possibly give them a free one?
  • NabistayNabistay Posts: 144 Tile Toppler
    My suggestion for a third ability:

    Loki - Master of Disguise (Variable cost) greenflag.png

    Loki isn't just the best at creating illusions, he also can trick the enemy into thinking he is someone else entirely!
    Can select an extra team up ability. This ability uses green energy instead of team up AP, but costs 4 more to use
    2 cover - costs 2 AP less (2 more than normal)
    3 cover - costs 2 AP less (0 more than normal)
    4 cover - costs 1 AP less (1 less than normal)
    5 cover - costs 1 AP less (2 less than normal)
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