*** Loki (Dark Reign) ***

emaker27

A tad off topic...

There really seems to be a pattern with nerfing characters. They (Loki, Venom, Rags, Thor, Spiderman, Cmags - coming soon, and more I'm forgetting) are playtested and released to the wild where very few, if any, people have complaints. And then, after a lot of people get these characters, the nerf happens. Afterwards, new powerful characters are released which makes the previous nerfs unnecessary. So when a nerf/new character situation happens, the player has to abandon one and re-invest in the other.

Instead of nerfs, what about slight changes to existing characters, followed by the introduction of a character to combat that same existing one? What if instead of changing Magneto's red from 2 to 6 (just a guess), it gets changed to 4. And then you introduce Professor X who can place a tile to shield the team from ability damage only (maybe a couple hundred to start, rising to a couple thousand at max).

What if instead of change Spiderman's blue from 2 to 5, you change it to 3? And then you introduce Carnage who is immune to stun, or has the length reduced by half?

You would break the cycle of making players feel like they have to stop using characters (ie Loki, Spiderman, ...), and still come out with new characters people would want to switch to.

Unknown

emaker27 wrote:

So when a nerf/new character situation happens, the player has to abandon one and re-invest in the other.

I think this just about sums it up - you spend time and $$$ leveling a good character - they nerf it - and now you have to spend time and $$$ leveling another...

It's too bad this great game they have created just feels more and more like a money grab ...

Unknown

Milkrain wrote:

YES! Let's resurrect this thread. Now that so many new stronger characters are out how about reverting this nerf. And while you're at it, revert Rags too. I mean, how good will they be in the current landscape of Patch, LThor, Sentry, LDaken, etc.

Rags would still be the most op character in the game. Even more so actually given how strong green has become. Can you imagine 2 ap red into a berserker or a cots? Disgusting. 8-10 red ap would effectively guarantee you a win. 4 red ap was the equivalent basically of a oasis+1k damage.

As for Lokii wasn't around yet, but he might make sense to reinstate. Of course, at this point it would be better to...should I say it? Create lazy rag and lazy Loki which are 3 cover characters where Loki gets trans back as his third skill and rag gets ...something...and hulk lvl hp. MMMMMMMoney money money money MONEY. Wouldn't be the worst idea ever, but is still like NEW characters with NEW abilities. 3...not just one.

BearVenger

Thanks for asking that, Wurning. I, too, have had a 5-black (my preferred build) Loki not convert all the enemy tiles on an activation. I didn't know if anyone else has reported this, but I'm sure we'll have some posts once this tourney starts.

eidehua

BearVenger wrote:

Thanks for asking that, Wurning. I, too, have had a 5-black (my preferred build) Loki not convert all the enemy tiles on an activation. I didn't know if anyone else has reported this, but I'm sure we'll have some posts once this tourney starts.

I, too, have had a 5-black (my preferred build) Loki

Wait, what preferred build (implying several builds)? There is only one right, 5/5? Are you running 5/0 or something?

Pwuz_

So since he's featured again, I thought I would make a suggestion for a 3rd skill for Loki.

Loki's 3rd skill should cause damage, and considering his colors, would likely be Green.

Manipulation.
Loki turns his opponent's powers against them. Does X damage for every AP the opponent's team currently has.

Unknown

While I do think Loki is woefully under-powered, hes usable as a secondary character if you want to luck into some cascading or combos. I enjoy using him with OBW because she steals purple on one match and then you have an illusions to rearrange the board if its not great or even remotely usable, then you can free up yourself from bad combinations. It's helped when I need to use a Thunder Strike to generate green for Call the Storm.
On the topic of him having a third power, I would love for him to get a blue stun that does damage equal to the number of blue you have in total ap, similar to a modified Photon Blast ala Moonstone. It fits within the context of the character too because he IS a Frost Giant by birth so he could use some form of Blizzard to freeze the opposing party. Then you could have a legitimate reason to heavily invest in Illusions to generate further combos and not feel like you're wasting your iso. Just my thoughts lol

Unknown

eidehua wrote:

BearVenger wrote:

Thanks for asking that, Wurning. I, too, have had a 5-black (my preferred build) Loki not convert all the enemy tiles on an activation. I didn't know if anyone else has reported this, but I'm sure we'll have some posts once this tourney starts.

I, too, have had a 5-black (my preferred build) Loki

Wait, what preferred build (implying several builds)? There is only one right, 5/5? Are you running 5/0 or something?

My preferred build is 5/5.

Unknown

I've been playing this god of lies tourney with a 166 Lthor, 142 LDaken and 41 Loki. The conclusion I'm rapidly coming to is that there is nothing wrong with Illusions that being attached to a hero other than Loki couldn't fix.

Unknown

False Target (Passive) If you have at least 6 Green AP and any team member takes fatal damage, at the cost of 6 AP Loki swaps in a dummy target which takes the damage instead, negating the damage to the original target.

This power would have both gains and drawbacks. One, it hides members against large downing attacks. However, it drains AP rapidly if any member is close to death. Or if this is too powerful, it could only apply to Loki himself, with the AP cost reduced. This would also play into his trickster qualities and his ability to escape consequence.

vudu3

daibar wrote:

Or if this is too powerful, it could only apply to Loki himself, with the AP cost reduced.

Honestly, I'd rather have any amount of green AP than Loki on my team.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

False Target (Passive) If you have at least 6 Green AP and any team member takes fatal damage, at the cost of 6 AP Loki swaps in a dummy target which takes the damage instead, negating the damage to the original target.

This power would have both gains and drawbacks. One, it hides members against large downing attacks. However, it drains AP rapidly if any member is close to death. Or if this is too powerful, it could only apply to Loki himself, with the AP cost reduced. This would also play into his trickster qualities and his ability to escape consequence.

Sounds a lot like Avoid, but better.

Phaserhawk

I would like a skill that destroys all protect or strike tiles and deals dmg to everyone but Loki with your team obviously taking less dmg, similiar to Senty's red and green.

Videocrazy

While poking around the forums here and there, I keep hearing people say that Loki is terrible, and I can't figure out why. I mean, yeah, he's not exactly my first pick ever, but I think he's at least decent. I like his Purple as an emergency shuffle if there's no good matches (or too many good matches), or a countdown tile I can't reach. Definitely annoying if I see a 4 or 5 match that gets swapped out later, though. Also, when I'm cycling through Patch partners while the others are on recovery (not having a 3* Daken that's anywhere close to being usable), he's pretty good as a followup.

HairyDave

Videocrazy wrote:

While poking around the forums here and there, I keep hearing people say that Loki is terrible, and I can't figure out why.

Let's see:

• Very low health even maxed out
• Lower level cap
• No direct damage ability
• Trickery is only useful when the opponents have strike/protect tiles
• Illusions is unpredictable
• Both powers are expensive unless max covered

How's that for a start? Don't get me wrong, I like using Loki but almost every other 3* is a better option - unless you're using Patch.

MunitionsFrenzy

It doesn't help matters that She-Hulk's Settlement now tramples all over his one unique niche of turning enemy tiles against them -- and she does it for Attack and Countdown tiles too, for less AP.

Videocrazy

HairyDave wrote:

Let's see:

• Very low health even maxed out
• Lower level cap
• No direct damage ability
• Trickery is only useful when the opponents have strike/protect tiles
• Illusions is unpredictable
• Both powers are expensive unless max covered

How's that for a start? Don't get me wrong, I like using Loki but almost every other 3* is a better option - unless you're using Patch.

I'm not arguing his general use; as I said before, he's definitely not main team material. I'm arguing that he has his uses as situational support and as a counter-pick for offensive teams. His lower level cap means that he's not likely to be the one who makes the matches, meaning his low health really only comes into play for team attacks. Similarly, while the fact he has no direct damage ability is a downside, it's not a requirement for every character, and by having no ability that increases with level, you can use his powers at any level with the same effectiveness. Trickery is what puts him in "counter-pick" territory, and Illusions /is/ unpredictable... which is why I don't use it immediately. I save it until the board layout is such that Illusions can't make it any worse than it is now. On that note, I'm not sure why you say "both powers are expensive unless max covered". Illusions costs 6 AP, all the time; the only thing that changes is how many swaps are made.

EternalLurker wrote:

It doesn't help matters that She-Hulk's Settlement now tramples all over his one unique niche of turning enemy tiles against them -- and she does it for Attack and Countdown tiles too, for less AP.

Last I checked, Settlement doesn't discriminate between your tiles and the enemy's; it's entirely possible for you to zap your own tiles and give the enemy a small boost.

Spoit

The problem with that is that the 4 black matches for loki's illusions is just as much as BP's game winning black. And in terms of support chars, he's nowhere near OBW (Another one without an attack power) and hood

Unknown

HairyDave wrote:

Videocrazy wrote:

While poking around the forums here and there, I keep hearing people say that Loki is terrible, and I can't figure out why.

Let's see:

• Very low health even maxed out
• Lower level cap
• No direct damage ability
• Trickery is only useful when the opponents have strike/protect tiles
• Illusions is unpredictable
• Both powers are expensive unless max covered

How's that for a start? Don't get me wrong, I like using Loki but almost every other 3* is a better option - unless you're using Patch.

More precisely, a 5/3/5 Patch. Other than that, I can't see how I can utilize Loki atm.

Pwuz_

Videocrazy wrote:

Illusions costs 6 AP, all the time; the only thing that changes is how many swaps are made.

It's 5 AP, but you are correct that it doesn't change with levels, only the number of swaps (which if I recall correctly was already increased from a max of 24 at level 5 to 32 now.)

I'm still of the opinion that Loki feels unfinished as he is now. He needs a 3rd ability.

I'd like to see something that deals damage, but as a distinctly Loki feel to it. For example perhaps:
Manipulation 10 Green AP
Level 1: Loki turns his opponent's powers against them and does (x) damage for every Green AP his opponent currently has.
Level 2: Loki also does damage for their Purple & Black AP as well.
Level 3: Loki also does damage for his team's AP as well.
Level 4: Loki also does damage for Blue & Yellow AP as well.
Level 5: Loki also does damage for Red & Team Up AP as well.