*** Loki (Dark Reign) ***

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  • VideocrazyVideocrazy Posts: 40 Just Dropped In
    Spoit wrote:
    The problem with that is that the 4 black matches for loki's illusions is just as much as BP's game winning black. And in terms of support chars, he's nowhere near OBW (Another one without an attack power) and hood

    What's Espionage level 4 and 5, then? It's basically a second attack; brutal if combined with Strike tiles. That being said, reasons like that is why he's not a first pick, but I still don't personally discount him as backup material.
    Pwuz_ wrote:
    Videocrazy wrote:
    Illusions costs 6 AP, all the time; the only thing that changes is how many swaps are made.

    It's 5 AP, but you are correct that it doesn't change with levels, only the number of swaps (which if I recall correctly was already increased from a max of 24 at level 5 to 32 now.)

    I'm still of the opinion that Loki feels unfinished as he is now. He needs a 3rd ability.

    I'd like to see something that deals damage, but as a distinctly Loki feel to it. For example perhaps:
    Manipulation 10 Green AP
    Level 1: Loki turns his opponent's powers against them and does (x) damage for every Green AP his opponent currently has.
    Level 2: Loki also does damage for their Purple & Black AP as well.
    Level 3: Loki also does damage for his team's AP as well.
    Level 4: Loki also does damage for Blue & Yellow AP as well.
    Level 5: Loki also does damage for Red & Team Up AP as well.

    Oh, herpaderp. For some reason I thought it was 6, so hush my mouth I suppose. A third ability would be nice, though for that one I'd probably shift Level 3 to Level 5, Level 5 to Level 4, and Level 4 to Level 3; doing damage with your AP basically doubles the pools you're pulling from, and feels more like a cover capstone. That ability would probably be quite strong, too, considering there's usually one pool on at least one team that simply isn't being used, for one reason or another.
  • Pwuz_Pwuz_ Posts: 1,170 Chairperson of the Boards
    Videocrazy wrote:
    A third ability would be nice, though for that one I'd probably shift Level 3 to Level 5, Level 5 to Level 4, and Level 4 to Level 3; doing damage with your AP basically doubles the pools you're pulling from, and feels more like a cover capstone. That ability would probably be quite strong, too, considering there's usually one pool on at least one team that simply isn't being used, for one reason or another.

    I don't disagree on the potential of reworking the levels. The power of an ability like this would likely have a max damage like Flame Jet or A Little Off the Top. Either just as a simple max, or only counting up to 10-15 AP in each category. It's power would also be dependent on how much damage it can do for each AP.
  • I'm generally against a direct damage ability for Loki, as that isn't in his character. Other suggestions, and revamped old suggestion:

    Envy - Green 9 AP
    Loki's mischief causes the other team to fight among themselves, allowing your team to prepare its assault. Creates a 3 turn counter that reduces the enemy's team-up AP by 9 and generates 3 AP for your team.
    Level Upgrades:
      Level 2: AP Cost reduced to 8 Level 3: Increases team-up AP for your team to 6. Level 4: AP Cost reduced to 7 Level 5: Reduces counter to 2 turns and generated team-up AP to 9


    Confusion - Green 9 AP
    Loki disorients the other team, swapping their 2 of their colored AP pools.
    Level Upgrades:
      Level 2: AP Cost reduced to 8 Level 3: 3 AP pools swapped Level 4: AP Cost reduced to 7 Level 5: All enemy AP pools swapped


    False Target - Green Passive
    If you have at least 8 Green AP and Loki takes fatal damage, at the cost of 8 AP Loki swaps in a dummy target which takes the damage instead, negating the damage.
    Level Upgrades:
      Level 2: Reduces cost and activation threshold by 1 AP Level 3: Reduces cost and activation threshold by 1 AP Level 4: Reduces cost and activation threshold by 1 AP Level 5: Loki's ability triggers when
    any team member is about to receive a critical hit.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    daibar wrote:
    False Target - Green Passive
    If you have at least 8 Green AP and Loki takes fatal damage, at the cost of 8 AP Loki swaps in a dummy target which takes the damage instead, negating the damage.
    Level Upgrades:
      Level 2: Reduces cost and activation threshold by 1 AP Level 3: Reduces cost and activation threshold by 1 AP Level 4: Reduces cost and activation threshold by 1 AP Level 5: Loki's ability triggers when
    any team member is about to receive a critical hit.
    Wouldn't that mean that once you get 5 Greens, you can't lose unless you're facing Hood or OBW?
  • I think something that would really seem in character for Loki would be either something that directs the next enemy attack to one of their own team members, or just automatically absorbs/redirects it. Something that's either "Loki disguised one of your teammates as him" or "You hit one of Loki's duplicates."
  • KolenceKolence Posts: 823 Critical Contributor
    simonsez wrote:
    daibar wrote:
    False Target - Green Passive
    If you have at least 8 Green AP and Loki takes fatal damage, at the cost of 8 AP Loki swaps in a dummy target which takes the damage instead, negating the damage.
    Level Upgrades:
      Level 2: Reduces cost and activation threshold by 1 AP Level 3: Reduces cost and activation threshold by 1 AP Level 4: Reduces cost and activation threshold by 1 AP Level 5: Loki's ability triggers when
    any team member is about to receive a critical hit.
    Wouldn't that mean that once you get 5 Greens, you can't lose unless you're facing Hood or OBW?
    Your team member that is about to get knocked out avoids that, but it costs you 5 green.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    I saw "activation threshold", missed "cost", and thought it worked like a passive...
  • Ben Grimm wrote:
    I think something that would really seem in character for Loki would be either something that directs the next enemy attack to one of their own team members, or just automatically absorbs/redirects it. Something that's either "Loki disguised one of your teammates as him" or "You hit one of Loki's duplicates."
    The problem with giving Loki a simple avoid like Hawkeye is there's usually no real reason to kill him first; he isn't a threat. If you come in attacking Loki with Daken, it's sort of your fault if you lose. Avoiding consequence is in his character, so it should be stronger like absorb or ignore dmg.
  • daibar wrote:
    Ben Grimm wrote:
    I think something that would really seem in character for Loki would be either something that directs the next enemy attack to one of their own team members, or just automatically absorbs/redirects it. Something that's either "Loki disguised one of your teammates as him" or "You hit one of Loki's duplicates."
    The problem with giving Loki a simple avoid like Hawkeye is there's usually no real reason to kill him first; he isn't a threat. If you come in attacking Loki with Daken, it's sort of your fault if you lose. Avoiding consequence is in his character, so it should be stronger like absorb or ignore dmg.

    I wasn't thinking it would apply to attacks directed just at Loki, but to anyone. Anything that just protected Loki might be worse than worthless, like Avoid can be at times.
  • Nonce Equitaur 2Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
    Avoid was an interesting but low-key power for Hawkeye. He's losing that power.

    Give the power to Loki. He needs a third power, and Avoid fits for him. It won't make him great, but it will make him more playable. The power is already been programmed, so it should be very easy to give it to him.

    He should eventually get something better, but that's a fine power to give him in the interim.
  • low-key power
    not sure if Pun intended
    futurama-fry-smiley-emoticon.png
  • OnesOwnGriefOnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Just give Doom and Loki third powers. That's all I really want. Rags can be stuck at 2 though.
  • GothicKratosGothicKratos Posts: 1,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    Avoid was practically the only reason I used 2* Hawkeye. By properly arranging the team, you could make Hawkeye Avoid into the loaner character in PvP, whom would heal each round. I feel like 2* Wolverine, 2* Magneto, and 2* Hawkeye will still work, but it won't have the longevity it had before, but it might just be more fun. We shall see.
  • GrimSkaldGrimSkald Posts: 2,063 Chairperson of the Boards
    Honestly, Avoid can be a sub-power to Illusion. I mean, that's what he does, right? You jump at the illusional Loki, but end up trapped in the Hulk containment unit....

    Probably too good to be a sub-power, though.
  • BearVengerBearVenger Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    I missed this thread earlier, but I would like to throw in the idea of the receiving teammate(s) getting damage reduction when Loki is targeted and eligible for Avoid.

    Something like 1 cover gives 5% damage reduction when 9 pink tiles are on the board, 5 covers give 15% or 25% or 2% x number of pink tiles on the board.

    I don't consider this OP, as Loki's pretty weak and has no offensive abilities of his own.
  • Spider_JerusalemSpider_Jerusalem Posts: 32 Just Dropped In
    Loki should have the power to uninstall the game from your opponent's device.
    Maybe it's a passive skill.
    Like if Loki survives an Intimidation + World Rupture, your opponent's phone/tablet/whatever automatically uninstalls Marvel Puzzle Quest and they lose all their sync'd account info. The next time they launch it, they would have to play the tutorial and they'd know they'd been Loki'd.

    I saw the Avengers movie and one of the Thors and I feel like this is in line with his character.
  • After playing God of Lies for a bit, I think it is clear that Loki needs something more. He should gain a green ability - and it could be called "acts of vengeance" or "not a puny god". If acts of vengeance - 9 Green gets you a massive strike tile like Sentry but without the self-inflicted injury. Not a puny god could be something akin to Rage of the Panther.

    Just a thought.

    Mark
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Loki needs a bit more than a green skill. He first needs to have Trickery reduced in cost. Because it is such a niche spell it needs to be less than 11. This would not be bad say at 8 or 9AP. Then have level ups either change the number of tiles converted with Lvl 5 being all, and have the others make Loki change their strength. So if you have him at say Lvl 5, he won't just changed all of Daken's 46 Strike Tiles to 46 Defense, he would up their strength say by 50 or so, sort of like how She-Hulk can reduce or increase strike tile strength.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    Loki needs a bit more than a green skill. He first needs to have Trickery reduced in cost. Because it is such a niche spell it needs to be less than 11. This would not be bad say at 8 or 9AP. Then have level ups either change the number of tiles converted with Lvl 5 being all, and have the others make Loki change their strength. So if you have him at say Lvl 5, he won't just changed all of Daken's 46 Strike Tiles to 46 Defense, he would up their strength say by 50 or so, sort of like how She-Hulk can reduce or increase strike tile strength.


    Phaserhawk,

    Good point. Lowering the cost of trickery would be good but the issue would be that people would then scream for him to be nerfed if he changed the values for tiles at the same time as converting them. If you lower trickery to a baseline of 13 with decreasing numbers to 9, that would still make it hard to fire it off, but not impossible. Right now it costs almost as much as Panther's without anywhere near the punch.

    Also, I still stand by my point on either acts of vengeance or not a puny god as an added ability. He should have something that is akin to Sentry or Hulk or Thor as a green power. In the comics, he is mastermind of the both the Dark Reign (playing with Osborn's brain) and the Acts of Vengeance storylines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Vengeance). He should be a character that players look at and want to target first, not look at as an afterthought who only works with Sentry, human torch or Patch in a support role.

    Maybe I am just a Loki fan,

    Mark
  • rixmithrixmith Posts: 707 Critical Contributor
    I would certainly like to see Loki's abilities scale as you level him up. I'd rather see a lower cost Trickery (maybe 7 AP) that swaps 2 - 6 tiles depending on the number of covers.

    I also like his abilities being somewhat random. So maybe a third ability could be a Green Passive that is sort of a combo of Captain Marvel's Yellow and Beast's Blue. If Loki takes over X damage, then a percentage of that damage is diverted (Loki gets some damage reduction) into a random Strike/Protect/Attack tile equal in value to the damage reduction. The percentage of damage could then scale both with number of covers and with level. So a high level Loki getting hit with a Human Torch fireball might take 25% less damage and create a monster strike tile. Would make you strongly consider your strategy for how to take him down, and would be a nice counter to big AoE attacks.
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