Classic legendary dilution

2

Comments

  • randomhero1090
    randomhero1090 Posts: 396 Mover and Shaker
    tiomono said:
    randomhero1090 said:
    I still consider myself a new player, and maybe this was done in the past and I know they attempt to do it in the present...  But there should be more select/limited vaults.

    I'd like to see a vault with select 5s with their 4s feeder.  Or a token that awards a certain segment of 4s.  Have them up for a limited time, allow people to hoard a bit, then pull for set of covers that they are looking for.

    I realize the LTs had the 4x odds on the newest 4s...  not what I am looking for.  Looking for a token that only pulls from a small segment of covers.

    And of course, the "any color" cover.  Even if it's limited to 1 or 2 a month.  Give me a freaking chance to get that last needed cover.  The bank idea is great, but at 5:1 for 4s.......  A bit pricey.  Now, you wanna take that exchange rate down a bit, ok.

    I look at the 5:1 exchange as me spending 5000 iso to help finish off characters. Not too pricey to me when I think of it in those terms.

    Very fair.  I have 3 Rogues saved and I think I got rid of 3 before the system started.  I am not opposed to trading in 5:1, the problem is getting the 5 :)

    I went 4 weeks without a BH...  but then just hit 2 BHs in pretty short order.  So I mean, if there is true RNG, then it is what it is.
  • moss04
    moss04 Posts: 147 Tile Toppler
    edited July 2018
    broll said:
    While I understand the appeal I feel like that would be too generous.  That + saved covers and there would rarely be any pressure to make IRL purchases.

     
    They put themselves in a catch 22 situation with 5 stars.  They'd like to encourage people to spend to get them, but they also made them expensive enough that most sane people that haven't succumbed to addiction would never spend the kind of money it takes to get them.  For awhile people could get them by chasing latest, and after some of the recent changes some of the people who are lucky or who play the game the most might still be able to, but others who now find they can't won't be encouraged to spend literally hundreds of dollars per month, they will be encouraged to quit.
  • randomhero1090
    randomhero1090 Posts: 396 Mover and Shaker
    GrimSkald said:
    Magic said:
    GrimSkald said:
    broll said:


    That being said BH I feel is supposed to be that kind of system, it would be nice if they improved the proc rates on it though.  

    I agree completely.  I think that they implemented the Bonus Hero system in order to give players more control over their Rosters and to combat token dilution.  While it does do these things over the long term, over the short term it often feels like it does very little.  I've gone, for example, 60 Legendary pulls without getting a BH (those are the only tokens I track each pull,) and I'm sure I've gone similar runs on other tokens.  In the end, I think my % are about right, but it never feels that way.

    If they improved the percentage it will definitely do more to combat dilution (I don't feel it does enough,) and the chance of bad runs would be lower so it would feel like you were getting a lot more Bonus Heroes.

    Well - the bonus hero works for the 3* and 4* land so getting the Feeders as bonus speeds up things. But for the 5* the percentage has to be increased to make it meaningful. 

    I have tracked two hoard openings (260 and 270 pulls for a total of 530 pulls) and I've got a grand total of 6 bonus hero 5* (including 2 in the color I can't use but would not be exchanged when I have tried to cover my 2-2-5 Thanos; different story). In the process i have manged to max cover 6 5* with some champion levels on them. I think in total I have got ~90-100 5* covers. So the percentage hovers around the advertised 5%. It just doesn't feel relevant when you look at the volume. 

    Maybe a bonus hero on classic tokens should be 10%? 15%?
    Honestly, I think they should increase the BH % to 10% across the board.  It will go a long way to countering both issues - the issue of dilution and the issue that BH seems to rarely come up.
    Dont see an issue with that, esp with the saved feature.  Most bonus that cover who needs 1 or 2 more covers.
  • jackstar0
    jackstar0 Posts: 1,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    WRT classics, I've been pulling them lately as I am fine with where my Okoye is, and my iCap and JJ are both champed and Wasp is... not appealing.

    Why pull them? They are cheaper and I get more 4*s for my currency. It turned out that in my initial wave of classic pulls I also got a few 5*s (all for champed). That felt kinda nice. Still curious to see if I can pull covers for my few incomplete 5*s, but in the meantime, getting more 4*s for less and seeing a little growth on my established ol' 5*s doesn't make me upset, even when it's AA and Ock getting covers.

    Also, it is a de-facto cheaper option towards getting a BH 5* as well.

    I'd say if you're not desperate for someone in the LLs, then potentially growing your Thor really does no harm.
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    I pull Classics sometimes. Not because I specifically want to cover a Classic 5* (although Thanos or Thor would be really nice) but because I'm not interested in hoarding at that particular moment, and they get me 20% more covers for my CP. My 4*s get more of a boost, and hey I might eventually finish one of the guys I have hovering at 11-12 covers.
  • moss04
    moss04 Posts: 147 Tile Toppler
    tiomono said:
    randomhero1090 said:
    I still consider myself a new player, and maybe this was done in the past and I know they attempt to do it in the present...  But there should be more select/limited vaults.

    I'd like to see a vault with select 5s with their 4s feeder.  Or a token that awards a certain segment of 4s.  Have them up for a limited time, allow people to hoard a bit, then pull for set of covers that they are looking for.

    I realize the LTs had the 4x odds on the newest 4s...  not what I am looking for.  Looking for a token that only pulls from a small segment of covers.

    And of course, the "any color" cover.  Even if it's limited to 1 or 2 a month.  Give me a freaking chance to get that last needed cover.  The bank idea is great, but at 5:1 for 4s.......  A bit pricey.  Now, you wanna take that exchange rate down a bit, ok.

    I look at the 5:1 exchange as me spending 5000 iso to help finish off characters. Not too pricey to me when I think of it in those terms.
    Since on average it takes about 140 or 175 CP to get 1 5 star cover I look at the 5:1 exchange rate as spending 700 or 875 CP for one cover which is pretty pricey
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    moss04 said:

    Since on average it takes about 140 or 175 CP to get 1 5 star cover I look at the 5:1 exchange rate as spending 700 or 875 CP for one cover which is pretty pricey
    Yeah... except for those 875 CP you also got 30 4* covers
  • moss04
    moss04 Posts: 147 Tile Toppler
    Jaedenkaal said:
    moss04 said:

    Since on average it takes about 140 or 175 CP to get 1 5 star cover I look at the 5:1 exchange rate as spending 700 or 875 CP for one cover which is pretty pricey
    Yeah... except for those 875 CP you also got 30 4* covers
    Most of which won't really help much after transitioning to the 5 star meta
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    I'm moving over to classic, and hording its almost pointless to open LT now unless its an really good character.

    So back to the horde life it is..
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    moss04 said:
    Jaedenkaal said:
    moss04 said:

    Since on average it takes about 140 or 175 CP to get 1 5 star cover I look at the 5:1 exchange rate as spending 700 or 875 CP for one cover which is pretty pricey
    Yeah... except for those 875 CP you also got 30 4* covers
    Most of which won't really help much after transitioning to the 5 star meta
    Don't you get CP, HP, and LTs from 4* champ rewards?
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    moss04 said:
    tiomono said:
    randomhero1090 said:
    I still consider myself a new player, and maybe this was done in the past and I know they attempt to do it in the present...  But there should be more select/limited vaults.

    I'd like to see a vault with select 5s with their 4s feeder.  Or a token that awards a certain segment of 4s.  Have them up for a limited time, allow people to hoard a bit, then pull for set of covers that they are looking for.

    I realize the LTs had the 4x odds on the newest 4s...  not what I am looking for.  Looking for a token that only pulls from a small segment of covers.

    And of course, the "any color" cover.  Even if it's limited to 1 or 2 a month.  Give me a freaking chance to get that last needed cover.  The bank idea is great, but at 5:1 for 4s.......  A bit pricey.  Now, you wanna take that exchange rate down a bit, ok.

    I look at the 5:1 exchange as me spending 5000 iso to help finish off characters. Not too pricey to me when I think of it in those terms.
    Since on average it takes about 140 or 175 CP to get 1 5 star cover I look at the 5:1 exchange rate as spending 700 or 875 CP for one cover which is pretty pricey
    I was responding to someone talking about 4*s. Not 5*s which are 3:1 not 5:1.
  • Tensuun
    Tensuun Posts: 99 Match Maker
    edited July 2018
    moss04 said:
    tiomono said:
    randomhero1090 said:
    I still consider myself a new player, and maybe this was done in the past and I know they attempt to do it in the present...  But there should be more select/limited vaults.

    I'd like to see a vault with select 5s with their 4s feeder.  Or a token that awards a certain segment of 4s.  Have them up for a limited time, allow people to hoard a bit, then pull for set of covers that they are looking for.

    I realize the LTs had the 4x odds on the newest 4s...  not what I am looking for.  Looking for a token that only pulls from a small segment of covers.

    And of course, the "any color" cover.  Even if it's limited to 1 or 2 a month.  Give me a freaking chance to get that last needed cover.  The bank idea is great, but at 5:1 for 4s.......  A bit pricey.  Now, you wanna take that exchange rate down a bit, ok.

    I look at the 5:1 exchange as me spending 5000 iso to help finish off characters. Not too pricey to me when I think of it in those terms.
    Since on average it takes about 140 or 175 CP to get 1 5 star cover I look at the 5:1 exchange rate as spending 700 or 875 CP for one cover which is pretty pricey
    As @tiomono pointed out, it's a 3:1 exchange rate, so it's 420 CP or 525 CP for one cover plus however many other 4-star covers you get along the way. Note that you can also buy the exact cover you want directly for 720 CP; you just miss out on the random 4-star covers and the chance that you happen to pull the cover you want for your expected value of 175 CP.

    Also note that 4-stars are becoming 5-star feeders; under the assumption that someday this process accelerates to the point where all 4-stars feed a 5-star, each 4-star champion level becomes at least as valuable as a 5-star cover (HP, CP, LTs, and iso all add up as well). So, you really get at least 1.3 five-star covers for your 420 CP, even in the case that your 5-star pull ends up as a "saved cover".
  • Reecoh
    Reecoh Posts: 210 Tile Toppler
    MgoBlue51 said:

    Yep. I opened my hoard recently, got JJ to 454, lumber cap at 13 covers, and okoye to 2/5/5. Opened over 2300cp and over 170 LTs. I received a total of 1 bonus 5*. So that’s a pretty decent sized problem. Granted it’s a 2.5% BH rate, not the worst thing ever. But considering how rarely the 5s drop in general, the BH system does virtually nothing to help. I have received a total of 2 bonus 5s for the entire lifetime of the BH system. There really should never be a character that is IMPOSSIBLE to build, and yet we have every character that entered classics before you may have been ready to jump to 5* world... all impossible to collect. i understand power creep, but it’s still a shame that some people are locked out from them entirely, and most are rendered to having a useless character because it’s impossible to get any more of them. 
    I have opened 720 tokens with 5* potential since they started the Bonus Heroes. Of those 720, 108 have been 5*s (right on 15%). I have also only had 2 Bonus 5*s for a whopping 1.85%. Color me unimpressed.
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've only ever gotten one 5 star bonus hero since they introduced the feature....... I need to start hoarding...
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    Basepuzzler said:
    justsing said:
    Basepuzzler said:
    justsing said:
    I still wish we had a third type of Legendary store that featured 3 random Classic 5*s and rotated them every month or two... In the meantime, I guess I’ll just have to wait for the 5*s I really want to finish to show up in a new release store...
    We kind of do?  Release tokens usually feature two classics and the new 5.  The wasp token being the exception of course, and they cost 25 instead of 20.
    Yeah, but they’re only around for a week or so. It’d be nice to have something more permanent.
    Yeah i agree

    A weekly or monthly special legendary token would be nice. 25CP and you have one latest, two classic 5*s in there, perhaps.
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    they need a classics legends token. one that doesn't replace any kind of lt we can get, but added to rewards. they could add one to season pvp between 5 and 10k. put one after the last cp reward in pve. daily resupply. etc...

    part of the problem is not having the resources to keep up with latests and still pull classics. if there was a classics token, at least we could still make some pulls out of classics and still keep up with latests.
  • Bzhai
    Bzhai Posts: 507 Critical Contributor
    They could also run more mini-events where a handful of classic 5* have increased odds. Something like the special vaults that come up whenever we get a new 5*
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,456 Chairperson of the Boards
    I wonder if a 5/4/3 off-season pvp, similar to the one that's 4/3/2 (I can't recall the name of that one) we sometimes get, that gave a specific 5* at whatever a reasonable win/point value would be would be possible?
  • swordfishdata
    swordfishdata Posts: 48 Just Dropped In
    I 2nd - putting 5* covers instead of CP at 1200 for off-season events would be freaking sweet. 

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