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Classic legendary dilution

MgoBlue51MgoBlue51 Posts: 38 Just Dropped In
as we all know, we have a boatload of classic 5s that have become nearly impossible to acquire. You can tout HfH, feeders, and bonus heroes all you want, but my 3/2/1 black bolt laughs in your face (and subsequently your face melts off)...

i know we have all thought of ideas to help, but nothing seems to be happening. Do people really spend money chasing classic 5s? If not, what is the point of essentially sending them to the wasteland of classics? Why in the world are we forced to chase some pretty important characters into the abyss? Why... WHY can’t we fix this?
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Comments

  • Tony_FootTony_Foot Posts: 616 Critical Contributor
    I pretend they don’t exist when they leave latest. Power creep > classics. I will care when they care and rework some of the trash in the tier.
  • JackTenrecJackTenrec Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    Maybe you guys can't get classic characters, but I am raking in the Doc Ock and Banner covers.
  • DyingLegendDyingLegend Posts: 471 Mover and Shaker
    I pretend the Classic Legends doesn't exist. Pointless to pull anything from it and current 5 stars are normally better.

    They will never solve dilution as it makes them the most money. Just look when they introduced supports, it was immediately diluted just as bad as everything else in the game. They haven't even acknowledged it on the forums which leads me to believe they will never fix dilution.

    I'm a little bitter about the topic of Dilution....
  • brollbroll Posts: 4,240 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 11
    With the saved covers change I've actually jumped ship from the Latest train and have been going down the Classics path.  You can't get them if you don't pull them and extra 5% more covers for your CP is nothing to sneeze at.  It's still gonna be an uphill battle to cover the 16 characters ranging from 12 covered to 1 covered, but hey it's something.

    Ironically I seem to be pulling disproportionately for 5*s I've already champed, RNG is weird.
    Magic said:
    Also when people talk about dilution of the Classics they mean - I want to cover the mentioned 4, and I don't want any OML, Phoenix, Silver Surfer or Banner covers. And it's been an issue with the game from the begging - you either lucked in to have the top tiers covers or not. Nothing will change. 
    That's a generalization and like all generalizations it's not true for everyone.  I've never meant that when I've talked about dilution.  I want to champ them all even the terrible ones like Oc & Banner (Now I would prefer they be last, but you can't get everything you want).  For me when I talked about dilution is was more about the fact of how painful it would be to get 1, 2, 3, 10, etc unusable covers chasing any 5* because 5* covers are so rare.  For me the save covers feature fixed that (although it was way way way way better when you could bank 5  :'( )
  • MagicMagic Posts: 1,180 Chairperson of the Boards
    Fair point that such a generalization can't be true for everyone. At the same time not everybody prioritizes covering them all vs having the top ones to be competitive. Me personally - I have all the top ones (Black Panther as only exception) max covered/championed. At this point I see no value in bringing in more of the low one to higher cover spread - I'd rather save CP. When/if I will have spare ISO i will probably plunge into the classics to improve the 4* covers and add some 5* here and there. Otherwise I hoard even if I don't like it at all. However I don't complain much about dilution - for the time being it's not a problem that concerns me much.

    On the banking 5 vs 3 - agreed. The 5 in the bank looked fine. It was the 5 to change a color that was criticised but the developers listen to what they want to listen. I also think that disabling the bank when you have 13 covers is the biggest negative of this (however I understand that it was a pure translation of the cover swap policy with support only at a higher price). If we could bank covers on a 13 covered characters it would be a real QoL improvement.   
  • MgoBlue51MgoBlue51 Posts: 38 Just Dropped In
    My problem is that I have the following champed or max covered:

    PPSM, gambit, JJ, lumber cap, and daredevil

    i have Phoenix at 12 covers, oml is at 9. Every other classic is very lowly covered. I would love to have a chance at getting enough covers for ANY of them. Obviously I’d prefer, just like anyone, to cover the best ones first. However, with no actually achievable (for me at least) or guaranteed way to get 5s, it just becomes a thing to look at. A toy on the shelf in its original packaging... except a toy that’s worth 25 cents, not thousands of dollars. That we are “required” to hold onto, but hold no true value. 

    Whether youre a collector, a “gotta champ em all”, or whatever... it’s just a mess. More feeders, actual bonus 5s, 1:1 trades for 5s... a guaranteed 5* token or progression rewards? Something has to give. Otherwise, the carrot only moves farther away, eventually becoming completely unreachable, thus making the effort pointless. People can’t be actually spending money chasing a great classic, can they? If not, then it doesn’t earn money by diluting the classic 5s so badly, right?
  • tiomonotiomono Posts: 604 Critical Contributor
    I only use command points on classics. I am working toward getting more 5's while getting my 4's stronger, so it makes sense to me to pull classics just for the 5 cp savings
  • ReecohReecoh Posts: 67 Match Maker
    For a game that attracts collectors, they sure are making it hard to collect those 5* covers. I feel like that will just help drive long-term players away.

    My perfect system: set 3 or some other smallish limited number of 5* covers to be my possible options to come out of a Classic token pull, similar to how my bonus cover is set. Those covers would be the only ones I could get on a 5* hit, until I change them. I'd even be willing to pay HP to change them. 
  • BowgentleBowgentle Posts: 4,565 Chairperson of the Boards
    Reecoh said:
    For a game that attracts collectors, they sure are making it hard to collect those 5* covers. I feel like that will just help drive long-term players away.

    My perfect system: set 3 or some other smallish limited number of 5* covers to be my possible options to come out of a Classic token pull, similar to how my bonus cover is set. Those covers would be the only ones I could get on a 5* hit, until I change them. I'd even be willing to pay HP to change them. 
    So draw latest, then.
    3 chars, changing every 6 weeks.

    Seriously folks, just abandon classic 5s.
    You either have them champed already, or you champ them via feeders, or you simply don't champ them.

    Power creep makes sure the marginal utility on a cover for a latest 5 is a lot higher than a champ level on a classic 5 which is mostly unusable except once or twice a year in PVE.
  • brollbroll Posts: 4,240 Chairperson of the Boards
    Reecoh said:
    For a game that attracts collectors, they sure are making it hard to collect those 5* covers. I feel like that will just help drive long-term players away.

    My perfect system: set 3 or some other smallish limited number of 5* covers to be my possible options to come out of a Classic token pull, similar to how my bonus cover is set. Those covers would be the only ones I could get on a 5* hit, until I change them. I'd even be willing to pay HP to change them. 
    While I understand the appeal I feel like that would be too generous.  That + saved covers and there would rarely be any pressure to make IRL purchases.

    That being said BH I feel is supposed to be that kind of system, it would be nice if they improved the proc rates on it though.  
  • BasepuzzlerBasepuzzler Posts: 146 Tile Toppler
    justsing said:
    I still wish we had a third type of Legendary store that featured 3 random Classic 5*s and rotated them every month or two... In the meantime, I guess I’ll just have to wait for the 5*s I really want to finish to show up in a new release store...
    We kind of do?  Release tokens usually feature two classics and the new 5.  The wasp token being the exception of course, and they cost 25 instead of 20.
  • randomhero1090randomhero1090 Posts: 152 Tile Toppler
    I still consider myself a new player, and maybe this was done in the past and I know they attempt to do it in the present...  But there should be more select/limited vaults.

    I'd like to see a vault with select 5s with their 4s feeder.  Or a token that awards a certain segment of 4s.  Have them up for a limited time, allow people to hoard a bit, then pull for set of covers that they are looking for.

    I realize the LTs had the 4x odds on the newest 4s...  not what I am looking for.  Looking for a token that only pulls from a small segment of covers.

    And of course, the "any color" cover.  Even if it's limited to 1 or 2 a month.  Give me a freaking chance to get that last needed cover.  The bank idea is great, but at 5:1 for 4s.......  A bit pricey.  Now, you wanna take that exchange rate down a bit, ok.

  • GrimSkaldGrimSkald Posts: 1,718 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll said:


    That being said BH I feel is supposed to be that kind of system, it would be nice if they improved the proc rates on it though.  

    I agree completely.  I think that they implemented the Bonus Hero system in order to give players more control over their Rosters and to combat token dilution.  While it does do these things over the long term, over the short term it often feels like it does very little.  I've gone, for example, 60 Legendary pulls without getting a BH (those are the only tokens I track each pull,) and I'm sure I've gone similar runs on other tokens.  In the end, I think my % are about right, but it never feels that way.

    If they improved the percentage it will definitely do more to combat dilution (I don't feel it does enough,) and the chance of bad runs would be lower so it would feel like you were getting a lot more Bonus Heroes.

  • justsingjustsing Posts: 302 Mover and Shaker
    justsing said:
    I still wish we had a third type of Legendary store that featured 3 random Classic 5*s and rotated them every month or two... In the meantime, I guess I’ll just have to wait for the 5*s I really want to finish to show up in a new release store...
    We kind of do?  Release tokens usually feature two classics and the new 5.  The wasp token being the exception of course, and they cost 25 instead of 20.
    Yeah, but they’re only around for a week or so. It’d be nice to have something more permanent.
  • BasepuzzlerBasepuzzler Posts: 146 Tile Toppler
    justsing said:
    justsing said:
    I still wish we had a third type of Legendary store that featured 3 random Classic 5*s and rotated them every month or two... In the meantime, I guess I’ll just have to wait for the 5*s I really want to finish to show up in a new release store...
    We kind of do?  Release tokens usually feature two classics and the new 5.  The wasp token being the exception of course, and they cost 25 instead of 20.
    Yeah, but they’re only around for a week or so. It’d be nice to have something more permanent.
    Yeah i agree
  • tiomonotiomono Posts: 604 Critical Contributor
    I still consider myself a new player, and maybe this was done in the past and I know they attempt to do it in the present...  But there should be more select/limited vaults.

    I'd like to see a vault with select 5s with their 4s feeder.  Or a token that awards a certain segment of 4s.  Have them up for a limited time, allow people to hoard a bit, then pull for set of covers that they are looking for.

    I realize the LTs had the 4x odds on the newest 4s...  not what I am looking for.  Looking for a token that only pulls from a small segment of covers.

    And of course, the "any color" cover.  Even if it's limited to 1 or 2 a month.  Give me a freaking chance to get that last needed cover.  The bank idea is great, but at 5:1 for 4s.......  A bit pricey.  Now, you wanna take that exchange rate down a bit, ok.

    I look at the 5:1 exchange as me spending 5000 iso to help finish off characters. Not too pricey to me when I think of it in those terms.
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