Supports - Spider-Sense (6/5/18)

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Comments

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,824 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    I love supports.  B) Not just me, but thousands of thousands of players love them as well. I'm waiting for them to implement support in PvP. 

    Will there be any options for bundling supports with 3* using CP instead of HP?

    It's weird to put Vulture in this though. He's the odd one out of all the Infinity War support bundle so far.
    I think they are trying new things every time to see what might entice players to use their resources, so anything could be offered as they try to narrow down what might work.

    But geez, I would not recommend that anyone use CP on 3* covers in a support package unless it was a lot less than the 4* packs, like 60 CP.  And even then I think you're better off using the CP for covers.  I similarly don't think the current CP offerings are worth the extra CP for the covers+resources, but that's up to each player to decide.  I'm much more comfortable with the HP packs, myself.

    Maybe Vulture is part of it since he's:  1.  An official MCU Spidey villain, and 2.  One of the top 10? 15? 4's in the game, yet very hard to get.  I can't remember who was offered last time.

    Also, with the release of Iron Spider, it seems that the Infinity War celebration is kind of over, so we'll see what the next bundle looks like.
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    Out of interest, can Miles Morales equip this new support?  Or is it only for Peter Parker Spider-Men?  I realise Miles wouldn't benefit much from the green AP/damage boosts, but then neither would 3* Spider-Man.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    HoundofShadow said:
    I love supports.  B) Not just me, but thousands of thousands of players love them as well. I'm waiting for them to implement support in PvP. 

    Will there be any options for bundling supports with 3* using CP instead of HP?

    It's weird to put Vulture in this though. He's the odd one out of all the Infinity War support bundle so far.
    dude, we get it, your a fan.  But "thousands and thousands?"  Are you in some of the largest line rooms, and all these people express their undying love of supports?  not sure if you are trying to be cool or silly, but it just comes off a little...weird.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,824 Chairperson of the Boards
    jamesh said:
    Out of interest, can Miles Morales equip this new support?  Or is it only for Peter Parker Spider-Men?  I realise Miles wouldn't benefit much from the green AP/damage boosts, but then neither would 3* Spider-Man.
    He cannot equip it, sadly. Only the characters with the main name of “Spider-Man” can.  It is locked from him.
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    jamesh said:
    Out of interest, can Miles Morales equip this new support?  Or is it only for Peter Parker Spider-Men?  I realise Miles wouldn't benefit much from the green AP/damage boosts, but then neither would 3* Spider-Man.
    He cannot equip it, sadly. Only the characters with the main name of “Spider-Man” can.  It is locked from him.
    It seemed worth asking, since recently there have been various things limited to "Captain America" (side nodes in a boss event, perk on a support) that accepted Peggy or Falcap in that role in addition to Steve Rogers.
  • ProtoformX
    ProtoformX Posts: 29 Just Dropped In
    What a waste of resources, both in terms of development and red iso...  Can I change my answer for the in game poll to something less than 0?
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    gmp72 said:
    Are these supports actually a support structure for the devs to help console themselves that this game is in a healthy state ?

    Do you realize most of the player base barely even look at them ? Let alone actively equip and level them ?

    Please. Stop. Wasting. Further. Valuable. Time. On. Supports. 

    Rebalance the characters. There are tons of useless characters that need a rework. 

    Accelerate the 5* feeders.

    Let us use our huge rosters. Not gambit plus insignificant other every match. 

    Lock out characters. Themed events with limited roster use. Etc etc .

    Come on. This is not rocket science.  

    This is coming from another long term player in this game.  This is another of many vets that have turned to MSF because they are liking the format and able to use all of their rosters on the raids.  As I said before i have never tried and won’t try MSF.  Many many vets are not sold on supports and won’t spend a penny on them.  If they get them, they get them but more time spent on them is more time that other aspects of the game are left to be the same over and over and over again. 


    Well.....there is one vet @Avalancher (who is no longer on the forums) and we know @HoundofShadow loves supports too.  Out side of them there is not many people that seem like they even care.  

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,283 Chairperson of the Boards

    For me, I find the lack of feedback from players on Supports to be quite telling and it is something the Devs should really take on board. I don’t mean complaints – I mean actual feedback on the use of Supports in the game. Either players can’t obtain them to try (due to scarcity or cost barriers) and let others know about them or they just don’t care. I don’t have many myself and none of the ones I do are particularly helpful save the odd green AP for GotG from Star-Lord element guns. I have 3 equipped and with little to no feedback to guide me on what to do with it, 11k red iso sitting there unspent.

    If it is the former situation, Supports will die no matter how much they are pushed. If it is the latter, Supports are already dead unless something changes.

    This really needs to be addressed I feel – let the red iso flow so players can actually try these things, level them and get to a point where they make a difference or are noticeable.

    Sorry for the moan.






  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,824 Chairperson of the Boards
    You know what seems cool?  Getting a Rank 5 Support to play with.  Let's see....

    When I browse the Spider-Sense Vault or Heroes for Hire offers, I see the Master Support tokens - available only with great luck/spending in the vault or 250CP - offer a rank 5 Support at 1:27 odds.  Not very likely, I'm not sure it's worth chasing...

    Then I look at the Supports page - which is always up, thanks - and click the "?" by the Master Support panel and see the odds of a Rank 5 Support are 1:10.  What?!?  3X the odds!   Hot dang, let me go get one of those bad boys and try my luck!

    Click.....click....click....click....clickclickclickclick.  Um, there are no "normal" Master Support tokens available anywhere in the game, unless you've been hoarding one for two months since the Rocket and Groot offer included one and bought it then.  What's the point of constantly telling me about something that is better than what you have to sell, but that I cannot actually chase or buy?  Even the VERY TOP PLAYER in a PVP SCL9 season just gets an Advanced Support token along with the holiest of holies, an Infinity Stone.  (Advanced tokens in all stores offer the same odds of pulling a Rank 4 etc.)

    I dunno.....this messaging seems off to me.  

    (Thanks to Discord for pointing this issue out.)
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    The reasons why the veteran are pissed off is because they can't play with Rank 5 Supports at level 200-250. Instead, they have to build up their support from level 1. I'm sure if the developers gave you guys level 200-250 supports of your choice, there won't be so much complaints about it. I understand that you guys think you deserve nothing less than Rank 5 support at a minium level of 200, simply because you are veterans. Equipping a less than level 100 support to your 5* is an insult. 

    Support is here to stay. So, you have to live with the existence of supports. 
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,824 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    The reasons why the veteran are pissed off is because they can't play with Rank 5 Supports at level 200-250. Instead, they have to build up their support from level 1. I'm sure if the developers gave you guys level 200-250 supports of your choice, there won't be so much complaints about it. I understand that you guys think you deserve nothing less than Rank 5 support at a minium level of 200, simply because you are veterans. Equipping a less than level 100 support to your 5* is an insult. 

    Support is here to stay. So, you have to live with the existence of supports. 
    I think most vets are not fuming about not having the very best Supports to use, although the lack of ability to chase them is head scratching to me.

    (Getting a Support to 250, based on numbers that are out there, doesn't always seem it would be worth the resources anyway.  You have to be very selective.)

    I do like the ideas behind Supports.  I really hope that other players find them useful, cool, fun, and that they help them achieve success, even if they make little difference to me.  And occasionally I find them useful and cool.

    The biggest issue most vets have, I think, is that Support development continues at a brisk pace while leaving other vet issues untouched.  No rebalance in months, Gambit's reign as Toon Supreme.

    So instead of reading reaction as "we all hate Supports", read it as "please work on some of the issues that we have been asking about for months or years".  (I recognize that some people say they hate Supports and want them gone, but most players just consider them something to either ignore or use.)
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    fmftint said:
    Yup, still don't care

    gmp72 said:
    Are these supports actually a support structure for the devs to help console themselves that this game is in a healthy state ?

    Do you realize most of the player base barely even look at them ? Let alone actively equip and level them ?

    Please. Stop. Wasting. Further. Valuable. Time. On. Supports. 

    Rebalance the characters. There are tons of useless characters that need a rework. 

    Accelerate the 5* feeders.

    Let us use our huge rosters. Not gambit plus insignificant other every match. 

    Lock out characters. Themed events with limited roster use. Etc etc .

    Come on. This is not rocket science.  


    bluewolf said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    The reasons why the veteran are pissed off is because they can't play with Rank 5 Supports at level 200-250. Instead, they have to build up their support from level 1. I'm sure if the developers gave you guys level 200-250 supports of your choice, there won't be so much complaints about it. I understand that you guys think you deserve nothing less than Rank 5 support at a minium level of 200, simply because you are veterans. Equipping a less than level 100 support to your 5* is an insult. 

    Support is here to stay. So, you have to live with the existence of supports. 
    I think most vets are not fuming about not having the very best Supports to use, although the lack of ability to chase them is head scratching to me.

    (Getting a Support to 250, based on numbers that are out there, doesn't always seem it would be worth the resources anyway.  You have to be very selective.)

    I do like the ideas behind Supports.  I really hope that other players find them useful, cool, fun, and that they help them achieve success, even if they make little difference to me.  And occasionally I find them useful and cool.

    The biggest issue most vets have, I think, is that Support development continues at a brisk pace while leaving other vet issues untouched.  No rebalance in months, Gambit's reign as Toon Supreme.

    So instead of reading reaction as "we all hate Supports", read it as "please work on some of the issues that we have been asking about for months or years".  (I recognize that some people say they hate Supports and want them gone, but most players just consider them something to either ignore or use.)
    This right here. Or.....Bowgentle said:
    The rockett said:
    gmp72 said:
    Are these supports actually a support structure for the devs to help console themselves that this game is in a healthy state ?

    Do you realize most of the player base barely even look at them ? Let alone actively equip and level them ?

    Please. Stop. Wasting. Further. Valuable. Time. On. Supports. 

    Rebalance the characters. There are tons of useless characters that need a rework. 

    Accelerate the 5* feeders.

    Let us use our huge rosters. Not gambit plus insignificant other every match. 

    Lock out characters. Themed events with limited roster use. Etc etc .

    Come on. This is not rocket science.  

    This is coming from another long term player in this game.  This is another of many vets that have turned to MSF because they are liking the format and able to use all of their rosters on the raids.  As I said before i have never tried and won’t try MSF.  Many many vets are not sold on supports and won’t spend a penny on them.  If they get them, they get them but more time spent on them is more time that other aspects of the game are left to be the same over and over and over again. 


    Well.....there is one vet @Avalancher (who is no longer on the forums) and we know @HoundofShadow loves supports too.  Out side of them there is not many people that seem like they even care.  


    The problem isn't supports per se - we could just ignore them.

    The problem is, and has been, the Gambit reign of terror for 6 months, and the unwillingness of the devs to do something about it BEFORE there were 500+ Gambits running around.

    Add to that that the rate of 5* feeders isn't accelerating but, for whatever reason, slowing down.

    Then the return of full-on 4* dilution, spun as "higher chance to draw 4s!".

    So all in all it paints a picture of tone-deaf developers who don't care about player input.

    Something which has been proven over the last 5 years so I don't know why people continue to be surprised by it.

    This.  

    Again the issue is soley supports, it is the many other outstanding issues that are not resolved yet all the time, energy, resource, money and manpower are dumped into something many people hold no value in.  That’s the problem 
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    HoundofShadow said:
    The reasons why the veteran are pissed off is because they can't play with Rank 5 Supports at level 200-250. Instead, they have to build up their support from level 1. I'm sure if the developers gave you guys level 200-250 supports of your choice, there won't be so much complaints about it. I understand that you guys think you deserve nothing less than Rank 5 support at a minium level of 200, simply because you are veterans. Equipping a less than level 100 support to your 5* is an insult. 

    Support is here to stay. So, you have to live with the existence of supports. 
    While I don't necessarily consider myself a vet (Day 761), I'm basically caught up on the 4* tier and starting the 5* transition (three champs, four more fully covered, another three at 10-12 covers). My biggest issue with Supports is that they're ... kinda pointless. They're incredibly difficult to come by and even harder to level.

    I'm not expecting a Rank 5, Level 250 to be dropped in my lap, just a reasonable path forward on obtaining the ones already available and enough RISO to actually make them relevant. My highest support is Rank 3, and I haven't spent a single bit of RISO since Supports launched. I'm up to 54,695 RISO, which only takes that one Support to Level 78/150. Just over halfway. On one Rank 3 Support. In almost two months. And I still have 13 other Supports. 

    I think the idea is that most of your RISO is supposed to come from drawing dupe Supports, but it's just about impossible to draw one without spending hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars to empty out vaults that have the tokens. 

    So my attitude is: Why bother? There's no decent, reliable way to get Support tokens, and not nearly enough RISO to do anything with them when you do happen to get lucky enough to draw them. So what's the point? 

    And the worst part about all of it is I *want* to like them. I really do. I was on board with them when they were announced and gave them the benefit of the doubt when they were first released. But after seeing how unreasonably difficult they are to obtain and develop, my attitude towards them are a solid, "meh". 

    So yeah, anytime I see that time and resources have been allocated to new Supports rather than character rebalances, 5* feeders, or literally just about anything else in the game, it's a little exasperating.
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:

    For me, I find the lack of feedback from players on Supports to be quite telling and it is something the Devs should really take on board. I don’t mean complaints – I mean actual feedback on the use of Supports in the game. 

    You're not wrong, but the lack of feedback is built in to both the design and the release strategy.  Even at full strength the abilities they unlock have low percentage effects or activations, and anyone who has the resources to actually have one that would make any difference at all has characters that drown that effect in standard strategy.  When you're blasting through CL9 with Panthos or Thorbit, a bonus 50 damage to green is invisible to everyone not keeping exhaustive spreadsheets.  Even from a helicopter view, there is no sense of "hmmm, I think maybe I finished that match a few seconds faster, maybe it was the supports!"  Even if you notice them working, the rarity means that the cross-section of players who a) have a higher rank of any given support, b) have invested enough in it to make the effects at all relevant, and c) care enough to talk about it, is infinitesimal. 

    It's impossible to give meaningful feedback when there is no apparent effect on gameplay.  They're just shiny baubles put prominently in our line of sight to make us think we need them.  They may as well have designed a "palette swap" feature.  A pink hulk is at least amusing to look at.
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    Here's something that might get people interested in supports: for the "join forces" missions in story events, how about equipping the loaner characters with a high level high rank support.

    It'd give people a chance to actually see the kind of difference a support that isn't level 1 is going to make to a match.  It'd only be on one node a day (on average), and wouldn't advantage any one player over another.  It wouldn't take that long to cycle through all the supports, so we'd get a feel for which ones are worth pumping our meager stockpiles of red iso into.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    Calnexin said: They may as well have designed a "palette swap" feature.  A pink hulk is at least amusing to look at.
    This is neither her nor there, but my wife frequently jokes that if she gets hangry enough, she'll turn into a pink Hulk. So nice choice of color. :smiley:
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,456 Chairperson of the Boards
    I use 5* Lord/4ocket/Medusa a bunch in story, and I have a 3* Elemental Guns (lvl 65) on star lord and a 1* Milano (lvl 1) on 4ocket. I see the rank 3 perk on the guns happening a bunch (make a match and there is a ## chance to fortify a friendly special ), which can help to preserve 4ocket's strike tiles an extra few turns, but The Milano at 1* has some very middling effects so I kind of ignore it. 

    Supports that put stuff on the board you can see make me feel like they're happening more, but for all I know, I could be seriously benefiting from the "gain AP for every guardian in the background" effects on those and just not realizing it.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,283 Chairperson of the Boards
    Calnexin said:
    DAZ0273 said:

    For me, I find the lack of feedback from players on Supports to be quite telling and it is something the Devs should really take on board. I don’t mean complaints – I mean actual feedback on the use of Supports in the game. 

    You're not wrong, but the lack of feedback is built in to both the design and the release strategy.  Even at full strength the abilities they unlock have low percentage effects or activations, and anyone who has the resources to actually have one that would make any difference at all has characters that drown that effect in standard strategy.  When you're blasting through CL9 with Panthos or Thorbit, a bonus 50 damage to green is invisible to everyone not keeping exhaustive spreadsheets.  Even from a helicopter view, there is no sense of "hmmm, I think maybe I finished that match a few seconds faster, maybe it was the supports!"  Even if you notice them working, the rarity means that the cross-section of players who a) have a higher rank of any given support, b) have invested enough in it to make the effects at all relevant, and c) care enough to talk about it, is infinitesimal. 

    It's impossible to give meaningful feedback when there is no apparent effect on gameplay.  They're just shiny baubles put prominently in our line of sight to make us think we need them.  They may as well have designed a "palette swap" feature.  A pink hulk is at least amusing to look at.
    Yeah, I can understand that.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,283 Chairperson of the Boards
    jamesh said:
    Here's something that might get people interested in supports: for the "join forces" missions in story events, how about equipping the loaner characters with a high level high rank support.

    It'd give people a chance to actually see the kind of difference a support that isn't level 1 is going to make to a match.  It'd only be on one node a day (on average), and wouldn't advantage any one player over another.  It wouldn't take that long to cycle through all the supports, so we'd get a feel for which ones are worth pumping our meager stockpiles of red iso into.
    I suggested something similar when they launched. You get to try out loaner 4* new releases so why not Supports as well?

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