Legacy Booster Crafting

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  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
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    ZW2007- said:
    Mburn7 said:

    Everybody having every card is bad for the game because then everyone is forced to make the same few super-efficient and optimized decks (see paper standard tournaments for reference).  It also reduces fun, because its hard to be motivated to create and test new decks when you can just put the same few super-powered cards in every deck.

    Targeted legacy crafting would not be a bad thing per se, it is the consequence of this that is so potentially bad.  Shadows over Innistrad was probably the most overpowered set ever in MTGPQ, and it only has about a dozen mythics total (almost all of them are chase cards for those who do not have them).  Its a safe bet that if legacy crafting could target sets everyone would have the Deploy/Olivia/Piggie combo inside of a month.  Legacy events would be awful (see above).  Going forward this wouldn't be as big of an issue, since all blocks after SOI were large ones (in PQ, anyway), so there is no real downside to being able to aim specifically for Aether Revolt cards (for example).  But because of how the game was run in the beginning it would be irresponsible to make every legacy set individually targetable.

    This is a weak argument. There are so many cards in this game and such a variety of PWs/PW abilities that no one deck will be this super optimized "one" deck that you so fear. If one deck becomes the dominant strategy, other decks will pop up to counter that, and so on and so on. Please give an example within this game to support your stance. Paper standard tournaments are a completely different animal than PQ.

    SOI had 21 mythics and EMN had 13 mythics, all of which were lumped together in one booster pack. So no, there aren't that many more mythics in other blocks compared to SOI. BFZ block has 36 (24+12) and KLD block has 40 (24+16). I don't know that anyone is asking to be able to craft SOI and EMN separately. OP wanted legacy cards craftable by set. The SOI set is SOI+EMN. AKH would actually be the biggest problem from your perspective because it only has 24 mythics since it was the first time they made the large and small sets separate in PQ.

    Also, there's still that pesky matter of people needing the Orbs to craft the cards. Making individual Legacy sets targetable won't magically give every Tom, tinykitty, and Harry all the orbs they need to craft every card.

    Lastly, I think you guys missed the point @ifsandbuts was trying to make...
    Sure there are a ton of different cards out there, but some are definitely "better" than others.

    As an easy example, since booster crafting came out almost every green deck I see has Gaia's Revenge in it.  As someone with it, its really hard to justify not putting it in a green deck, since it is probably the best creature in the game.  

    Cards like Rashimi and Baral aren't "must" includes, but if you want to make a spell loop deck they are almost definitely going to show up if you have them.  The deck isn't going to work without it.

    I'm not worried about one specific deck taking over like you seem to think, but that each type of deck will have just 1 or 2 constructions.  Green ramp?  Use GR and these specific ramp spells.  Spell loop?  Use baral and these spells.  Direct damage?  Here's a HUF and Approach.  There may be infinite possible decks, but if everyone has every card we would quickly find out what the super optimal decks are, and everyone would be running a variant of that.  Diversity would become 1 or 2 cards per deck.  That is bad.

    And sure I may be hyperbolizing a bit here, but that doesn't mean my concerns aren't valid.
  • joerginger
    joerginger Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
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    The fact that everything is non-targetable is bad enough (just compare this to TESL or the otherwise horrible HS), but it's even worse that the sets are lumped together in legacy. I just don't get it. Without spending hundreds or thousands of $/€/whatever you have no chance to get anywhere near a complete collection anyway. Just think about the huge amount of mythics already in existence - with more being added with every expansion. Being able to choose the set you want to craft your legacy card from would at least improve your chances to get something you actually want.
    This game is by far the greediest I have ever seen, yet what you get for each of your 'investments' is always much worse than what you get in other games. Let's not forget the great deal with purples. It's always such fun to exchange 400 purples for 750 (or even 500) orbs!
  • DumasAG
    DumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2018
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    Chocostove said:
    There is absolutely zero point in spending your points in legacy. With everything jumbled together, the risk of getting anything close to what I want is way too high. There's tons of cards I'd like to spend my points on, but not if I can't even remotely have a logical chance of achieving my goal. If the concern is too much clutter, make a separate menu.
    I am crafting legacy rares for three reasons. 
    1. I own most of the rares I want from IXL, RIX, and HOU
    2. Dominaria crafting isn't available, and will be prohibitive when it is
    3. I need Bruna to pair with my Gisela in my HuF+Deploy Legacy deck for Nahiri (forced to play 4 creatures at the moment, which is inefficient)
    What I have found is that, though I've purchased about 15 rares now and still don't have Bruna, getting a bunch of old rares I never had has me revisiting some ideas in the training grounds (when are we going to get seperate standard and legacy grounds?!?!!). Yes, it'd be nice to just be crafting from the legacy set I need, but I'm finding it's not the worst.
  • IM_CARLOS
    IM_CARLOS Posts: 640 Critical Contributor
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    I think crafting cost are fair. If really want to narrow down the possibilities you have to buy booster. Amd if you don't have tje crystals, you have to buy crystals first. The game would not exist for long if no one would pay for it. So making crafting happen is more for payers to make all the dupes worth something useful and to complete there collection. For F2P it is a nice option, but not for targeting specific cards. That's fair. You get what you pay for. And with crafting you get definitely more if you pay more.
  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
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    It would be nice if you could flip a switch and make Quick Battle either Standard or Legacy.  Or, if you enter Quick Battle with a Standard deck, you face against an opponent with a Standard deck.

    It would also be nice if you could choose your prize in events:  "Gold, Runes, Orbs, Cards, Packs".  Right now I'm sitting on 400,000 runes, and have no way to spend them because I'll never amass enough gold through game play to get another planeswalker.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
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    EDHdad said:
    It would be nice if you could flip a switch and make Quick Battle either Standard or Legacy.  Or, if you enter Quick Battle with a Standard deck, you face against an opponent with a Standard deck.

    It would also be nice if you could choose your prize in events:  "Gold, Runes, Orbs, Cards, Packs".  Right now I'm sitting on 400,000 runes, and have no way to spend them because I'll never amass enough gold through game play to get another planeswalker.
    That would be a cool feature.  I'm short on everything (man new planeswalkers are expensive to level), but it would definitely be nice to get extra of something when needed instead of the same generic rewards
  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
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    At the very least, if it wants to give us a pack, we should be have some choice of the pack.

    Or, maybe they could just have a pack "Standard Pack" and another pack "Legacy Pack", which mix and match several sets.
  • DumasAG
    DumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2018
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    EDHdad said:
    At the very least, if it wants to give us a pack, we should be have some choice of the pack.

    Or, maybe they could just have a pack "Standard Pack" and another pack "Legacy Pack", which mix and match several sets.
    And I vote we go a step further and they add a couple new options to the vault. Pay 5 standard packs, get a random standard rare. Pay 5 legacy packs, get a random legacy rare. Same idea, but 15 packs, get a random like mythic.
  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
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    Agreed.  I really miss the big boxes, which were like 14 packs with a guaranteed Mythic for like 600 crystals.

    Also, I miss the days when you could reasonably expect to amass 600 crystals.

    I also miss the packs you could get with runes.  I understand that they'd have to charge more than 225 runes per pack, but I'd love to be able to get those again.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
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    EDHdad said:
    Agreed.  I really miss the big boxes, which were like 14 packs with a guaranteed Mythic for like 600 crystals.

    Also, I miss the days when you could reasonably expect to amass 600 crystals.

    I also miss the packs you could get with runes.  I understand that they'd have to charge more than 225 runes per pack, but I'd love to be able to get those again.
    I think they were 12 packs with a guaranteed rare.  The fat packs weren't much different than the premium (except they used to be a better deal because two 300 crystal packs would get you an extra guaranteed rare).  Now that the price is increased to 320 crystals it's debatable whether the Premium packs are a better deal than the Fat pack
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
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    EDHdad said:
    Agreed.  I really miss the big boxes, which were like 14 packs with a guaranteed Mythic for like 600 crystals.

    Also, I miss the days when you could reasonably expect to amass 600 crystals.

    I also miss the packs you could get with runes.  I understand that they'd have to charge more than 225 runes per pack, but I'd love to be able to get those again.
    Damn, youve been here longer than me.  I never had the rune packs.

    As for crystal acquisition, I'm getting about 250 a week, and I rarely top 50 events.  Back in the day it was like 50 a week + story mode.  Not sure how 600 was easier then.
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
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    EDHdad said:
    Agreed.  I really miss the big boxes, which were like 14 packs with a guaranteed Mythic for like 600 crystals.

    Also, I miss the days when you could reasonably expect to amass 600 crystals.

    I also miss the packs you could get with runes.  I understand that they'd have to charge more than 225 runes per pack, but I'd love to be able to get those again.
    Big boxes were 14 packs, which later included a guarantee rare.

    The guaranteed mythic ones were limited time offers and cost 1000 crystals each.
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,064 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Mburn7 said:
    jtwood said:
    It should also be super cheap to craft Legacy since you don’t use them as much. This is a broad declaration: they should be cheap to craft and to purchase packs. 
    They already are cheap to craft.  And I agree they should match Origin's cost for packs.
    I would argue that Legacy should be less than Origins. Origins is an always-legal set. Legacy cards are usable much less often, and mostly are just good for Training Grounds and a handful of other events.There are definitely cards I'd like from old sets for these events or do build interesting decks (not the highly optimized decks people talked about) But.... I'm not feeling like spending 3,000 orbs to *maybe* get Ulamog among the 50+ legacy mythics I do not own.

    Also there's the slight annoyance that I still have Thalia as my only Eldritch Moon rare I do not own I would gladly spend the 600 orbs on to get for completion reasons, but since there are a whole slew of rares from Zendikar I never got, I don't want to spend my orbs on the off chance of getting that one card.

    I would agree with the other comments that there's very little detriment to letting people target sets. This will only become even more of a sentiment I hold as more and more sets get lumped into "Legacy"
  • joerginger
    joerginger Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
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    I tried Arena for about half an hour and decided I would never touch another WotC product again.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
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    joerginger said:
    I tried Arena for about half an hour and decided I would never touch another WotC product again.
    That seems a little harsh.  Was it really that bad?
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
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    joerginger said:
    I tried Arena for about half an hour and decided I would never touch another WotC product again.
    I've been wary of WotC's business objectives since Masterpieces first came out.  I get that card reprints are a thing so old cards don't cost $200 to acquire but I feel like it's gone over the top.  There's profiting, and then there's being greedy.  Also the planeswalker board game was total crud.  Bought it, played it once, wanted the 3 hours of my life I spent learning the rules and playing back...at least I can use the figures for my DnD games.

    on topic: I don't mind being able to acquire old cards in mtgpq via legacy booster crafting because you couldn't acquire them any other way.
  • gogol666
    gogol666 Posts: 316 Mover and Shaker
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    Time for a poll
  • Persil
    Persil Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
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    Three years since first request, and no change. I started playing in 2019 and currenlty have 250 Mythics to craft in Legacy Crafting. There is no point - I'm not even talking about targeting a specific card, it's actually difficult to even target a given set! I consider Legacy Crafting dead.

    Why we can't get them separated into sets, or at least grouped in packs of 2-3 sets?

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