ArielSira said: And how is that a reason to up the price of Legacy? It has less uses than Origins, to make it cheaper or targetable changes nothing but the time it takes to gather enough orbs. It's still a pile that takes years to gather. Making Legacy 4000-4500 would be a massive waste of orbs seeing its so close to Standard sets.
ifsandbuts said: I 100% agree with making the crafting target, but let me get this out of the way for all of the "this game shouldn't be fun" folks..."This is socialism""I paid a lot of money for pig two years ago, so you don't deserve it""This will unbalance tg and the pves""F2P folks should go sit in a hole""You shouldn't (eventually) be able to collect every card in a collectible card game, duh""New cards def don't give people a rush that keeps them coming back"I tried to argue this before, but the people who pay a lot of money to get a digital license for a card a month early don't like this idea. It would make them feel less special.
Mburn7 said: ifsandbuts said: I 100% agree with making the crafting target, but let me get this out of the way for all of the "this game shouldn't be fun" folks..."This is socialism""I paid a lot of money for pig two years ago, so you don't deserve it""This will unbalance tg and the pves""F2P folks should go sit in a hole""You shouldn't (eventually) be able to collect every card in a collectible card game, duh""New cards def don't give people a rush that keeps them coming back"I tried to argue this before, but the people who pay a lot of money to get a digital license for a card a month early don't like this idea. It would make them feel less special. First of all, nobody paid for the pig, it wasn't an exclusive (Olivia is another story). And I don't think anyone is arguing that since a card was exclusive 2 years ago it shouldn't be lootable. Hell, cards are now being offered for cash that are also available in packs, and I haven't seen a single complaint.Second of all, as someone who frequently makes similar arguments I don't like the "game shouldn't be fun" descriptor. These kinds of arguments (which you are exaggerating anyway) are arguing that the fun of the game is in the chase of new things, not the use of them. Everybody having every card is bad for the game because then everyone is forced to make the same few super-efficient and optimized decks (see paper standard tournaments for reference). It also reduces fun, because its hard to be motivated to create and test new decks when you can just put the same few super-powered cards in every deck.Targeted legacy crafting would not be a bad thing per se, it is the consequence of this that is so potentially bad. Shadows over Innistrad was probably the most overpowered set ever in MTGPQ, and it only has about a dozen mythics total (almost all of them are chase cards for those who do not have them). Its a safe bet that if legacy crafting could target sets everyone would have the Deploy/Olivia/Piggie combo inside of a month. Legacy events would be awful (see above). Going forward this wouldn't be as big of an issue, since all blocks after SOI were large ones (in PQ, anyway), so there is no real downside to being able to aim specifically for Aether Revolt cards (for example). But because of how the game was run in the beginning it would be irresponsible to make every legacy set individually targetable.
FindingHeart8 said: Mburn7 said: ifsandbuts said: I 100% agree with making the crafting target, but let me get this out of the way for all of the "this game shouldn't be fun" folks..."This is socialism""I paid a lot of money for pig two years ago, so you don't deserve it""This will unbalance tg and the pves""F2P folks should go sit in a hole""You shouldn't (eventually) be able to collect every card in a collectible card game, duh""New cards def don't give people a rush that keeps them coming back"I tried to argue this before, but the people who pay a lot of money to get a digital license for a card a month early don't like this idea. It would make them feel less special. First of all, nobody paid for the pig, it wasn't an exclusive (Olivia is another story). And I don't think anyone is arguing that since a card was exclusive 2 years ago it shouldn't be lootable. Hell, cards are now being offered for cash that are also available in packs, and I haven't seen a single complaint.Second of all, as someone who frequently makes similar arguments I don't like the "game shouldn't be fun" descriptor. These kinds of arguments (which you are exaggerating anyway) are arguing that the fun of the game is in the chase of new things, not the use of them. Everybody having every card is bad for the game because then everyone is forced to make the same few super-efficient and optimized decks (see paper standard tournaments for reference). It also reduces fun, because its hard to be motivated to create and test new decks when you can just put the same few super-powered cards in every deck.Targeted legacy crafting would not be a bad thing per se, it is the consequence of this that is so potentially bad. Shadows over Innistrad was probably the most overpowered set ever in MTGPQ, and it only has about a dozen mythics total (almost all of them are chase cards for those who do not have them). Its a safe bet that if legacy crafting could target sets everyone would have the Deploy/Olivia/Piggie combo inside of a month. Legacy events would be awful (see above). Going forward this wouldn't be as big of an issue, since all blocks after SOI were large ones (in PQ, anyway), so there is no real downside to being able to aim specifically for Aether Revolt cards (for example). But because of how the game was run in the beginning it would be irresponsible to make every legacy set individually targetable. I'm kinda wondering if he was trolling, the original comment was short with no explanation, almost intentionally offensive, and some of the statements contradicted each other.
Coilbox said: training grounds is full already with pigs, olivias and barals and everything...And as you guys say, these cards are only of any use in training grounds, which is not much of a problem. It's just a little daily event with infinite charges. what's the trouble..? would it be really 'that' bad? seriously?
Mburn7 said:Its a safe bet that if legacy crafting could target sets everyone would have the Deploy/Olivia/Piggie combo inside of a month. Legacy events would be awful (see above).
Theros said: Coilbox said: training grounds is full already with pigs, olivias and barals and everything...And as you guys say, these cards are only of any use in training grounds, which is not much of a problem. It's just a little daily event with infinite charges. what's the trouble..? would it be really 'that' bad? seriously? Beautiful argument. Making every legacy targetable won't make legacy pvp worst than it already is. legacy is strong but very beatable with standard sets. TG with infinite recharges is meant for testing decks, not competitive play. it shouldn't be an argument against lowering legacy prices.3000 orb for legacy is silly. it's wiser to spend them on legacy rares or save for mythic.People have different preferences but I can't imagine myself chasing legacy cards; they have no value to me.
jtwood said: It should also be super cheap to craft Legacy since you don’t use them as much. This is a broad declaration: they should be cheap to craft and to purchase packs.
Mburn7 said: jtwood said: It should also be super cheap to craft Legacy since you don’t use them as much. This is a broad declaration: they should be cheap to craft and to purchase packs. They already are cheap to craft. And I agree they should match Origin's cost for packs.
jtwood said: Mburn7 said: jtwood said: It should also be super cheap to craft Legacy since you don’t use them as much. This is a broad declaration: they should be cheap to craft and to purchase packs. They already are cheap to craft. And I agree they should match Origin's cost for packs. I think both of those costs - crafting and packs - are still too high. Legacy events are low-ROI these days. Their cost of acquisition should be equally low.
Stormbringer0 said: I would love me some highly rewarded legacy events! This format is underplayed. They should make Standard and Legacy more clear ans separated from each other in the game. If this is not happening, I don't even think about crafting cards for Legacy. Heck, I don't come close to the Mythics I want and need for Standard!
Mburn7 said:Everybody having every card is bad for the game because then everyone is forced to make the same few super-efficient and optimized decks (see paper standard tournaments for reference). It also reduces fun, because its hard to be motivated to create and test new decks when you can just put the same few super-powered cards in every deck.Targeted legacy crafting would not be a bad thing per se, it is the consequence of this that is so potentially bad. Shadows over Innistrad was probably the most overpowered set ever in MTGPQ, and it only has about a dozen mythics total (almost all of them are chase cards for those who do not have them). Its a safe bet that if legacy crafting could target sets everyone would have the Deploy/Olivia/Piggie combo inside of a month. Legacy events would be awful (see above). Going forward this wouldn't be as big of an issue, since all blocks after SOI were large ones (in PQ, anyway), so there is no real downside to being able to aim specifically for Aether Revolt cards (for example). But because of how the game was run in the beginning it would be irresponsible to make every legacy set individually targetable.
ZW2007- said: Mburn7 said:Everybody having every card is bad for the game because then everyone is forced to make the same few super-efficient and optimized decks (see paper standard tournaments for reference). It also reduces fun, because its hard to be motivated to create and test new decks when you can just put the same few super-powered cards in every deck.Targeted legacy crafting would not be a bad thing per se, it is the consequence of this that is so potentially bad. Shadows over Innistrad was probably the most overpowered set ever in MTGPQ, and it only has about a dozen mythics total (almost all of them are chase cards for those who do not have them). Its a safe bet that if legacy crafting could target sets everyone would have the Deploy/Olivia/Piggie combo inside of a month. Legacy events would be awful (see above). Going forward this wouldn't be as big of an issue, since all blocks after SOI were large ones (in PQ, anyway), so there is no real downside to being able to aim specifically for Aether Revolt cards (for example). But because of how the game was run in the beginning it would be irresponsible to make every legacy set individually targetable. This is a weak argument. There are so many cards in this game and such a variety of PWs/PW abilities that no one deck will be this super optimized "one" deck that you so fear. If one deck becomes the dominant strategy, other decks will pop up to counter that, and so on and so on. Please give an example within this game to support your stance. Paper standard tournaments are a completely different animal than PQ.SOI had 21 mythics and EMN had 13 mythics, all of which were lumped together in one booster pack. So no, there aren't that many more mythics in other blocks compared to SOI. BFZ block has 36 (24+12) and KLD block has 40 (24+16). I don't know that anyone is asking to be able to craft SOI and EMN separately. OP wanted legacy cards craftable by set. The SOI set is SOI+EMN. AKH would actually be the biggest problem from your perspective because it only has 24 mythics since it was the first time they made the large and small sets separate in PQ.Also, there's still that pesky matter of people needing the Orbs to craft the cards. Making individual Legacy sets targetable won't magically give every Tom, tinykitty, and Harry all the orbs they need to craft every card.Lastly, I think you guys missed the point @ifsandbuts was trying to make...