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  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gunmix25 said:
    Mainloop25 said:
    For me ,a lack of new things to do with my cards would bore me and make me quit way faster than any other factor(other than bugs, but that is a separate issue from boredom). If they keep giving us new challenges and restrictions, it would still be fun to use all those cards in new and interesting ways.


    Dude.... You're a fellow survivor of the Great Lull Period! Aug 2017 to February 2018.  So I gotta ask... just how bad do things have to be before you feel you need to quit??? I can't imagine things getting worse than what we all just went through last fall and winter. And that time in the game was boring ... oh good lord was it boooooooring. lol



    I dunno, couldn't I ask you the same thing? I actually cut my play time down a lot during last summer, believe it or not, and actually got close to quitting on a couple of occasions. Even quit playing for a couple of weeks and deleted the shortcuts to mtgpq related things on my phone for a while. So yeah things got that bad. 
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gunmix25 said:
    Mainloop25 said:
    "It's bad for business" is a reason I hear tossed around a lot. Can anybody prove that? Not saying it's not true, but people state it as a fact without ever providing evidence. 
    I personally run a hardware/lumberyard business and in my line of work I am involved in construction sales, especially the kind that involves quotes. In many cases I will either drop prices to cost for some items and for most I will offer full retail; in rarer cases I will offer free product. The reasoning behind all of the above is to draw in clients that will bring in their money to pay for my operation bills, my employees, my utilities, my orders, my taxes ... the list goes on and on. I highly depend on return business, so I need to make financial calls in which I make little to nothing, but I also have to make sure that I earn enough to stay in business.

    Again, this is all conjecture. There is no way to get proof without looking at the D3 books, so I wish people would drop these assumptions already. I quit pretending like I knew what was good for their bottom line a while ago  and just now go off of what I feel would make my individual experience of the game better, because that is the only thing I think I'm qualified to speak on. 
  • ZW2007-
    ZW2007- Posts: 812 Critical Contributor
    Gunmix25 said:
    Mainloop25 said:
    "It's bad for business" is a reason I hear tossed around a lot. Can anybody prove that? Not saying it's not true, but people state it as a fact without ever providing evidence. 
    I personally run a hardware/lumberyard business and in my line of work I am involved in construction sales, especially the kind that involves quotes. In many cases I will either drop prices to cost for some items and for most I will offer full retail; in rarer cases I will offer free product. The reasoning behind all of the above is to draw in clients that will bring in their money to pay for my operation bills, my employees, my utilities, my orders, my taxes ... the list goes on and on. I highly depend on return business, so I need to make financial calls in which I make little to nothing, but I also have to make sure that I earn enough to stay in business.
    Giving away lumber for free literally costs you money because you had to pay for it in the first place. Giving away more digital goods doesn't actually cost them money but it could equate to lost revenue. Comparing those physical goods to these digital goods just doesn't work. You even said it yourself though that you do give stuff away to gain repeat customers, that concept applies here and it also costs them nothing to do it. People that do spend money on this game aren't suddenly going to stop spending money because jewels give non-dupes. Such a small percentage of the player base would be able to collect all the cards for free, and maybe none could. I could even argue that non-dupes from jewels would increase cash purchases of crystals. The only way to get jewels is to earn them and you can only earn a finite amount. By spending cash for crystals, you increase the value of your earned jewels by having a smaller pool of cards to pull from in the Elite+ packs, thus speeding up the process of getting all the cards. You would never be able to get all the cards from a non-dupe Elite+ pack with only jewels. You would also likely never get all the cards with just crystals (unless you spend a lot of cash on crystals and use booster crafting). It's all a balance. Orbs, jewels and crystals are all required to even come close to having a complete collection.

    My biggest beef with it is that there are cards in this game that I want and I know I will never get them. I would love to have Swords to Plowshares because it is one of the most iconic white spells in paper magic and because it is really stinking good in PQ. I will never get Swords to Plowshares because it is only available in the Elite pack and it is not worth trying to get. Is it my choice? Yes, I choose not to waste my limited amount of jewels chasing a card that I believe I will never be able to get. Does that mean the current system is good game design? No. I'm not saying Elite packs need to be guaranteed non-dupes and still cost 400 jewels. I am saying that the system, as it is now, is disingenuous at best. Also, keep in mind that guaranteed non-dupes doesn't mean everyone would just pull all the good cards right away. We'd still have plenty of people getting stuck with stinkers (looking at you Knight of the Reliquary) and not be able to continue buying more packs.
  • arevala
    arevala Posts: 53 Match Maker
    as ZW2007- said, non getting dupes doesnt mean we will stop spending real money in the game. On the contrary! Having non frustrated players will give more reasons to pay for those products :smile: ! But nowadays, spending money for an 80% chance of getting a dupe is no business at all.
    I think we are here reading and/or writing because we want to improve the game, we want to play it and enjoy it. So sad, having so much potential and just having so greedy desisions that take to nowhere... The environment is not the best this game ever had :neutral:
  • GrizzoMtGPQ
    GrizzoMtGPQ Posts: 776 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2018
    babar3355 said:
    Well, arguably some of those players who have a few hundred thousand gubbins left could craft all of the mythics and then get guaranteed non-dupe masterpeices.  But my question again is, WHO CARES? Why can't players collect all the tinykitty cards?

    Oktagon has admitted that they are not overwhelmingly powerful, but rather slightly more powerful and more complex.  If more are like Cursed Predation (awesome card post buff, but not remotely OP) and less like Omniscience (Totally broken OP) then it doesnt really matter.

    It's like we are in a mind loop.  If I was for players collecting every card before MPs, why would creating a new class of card change my stance on the subject?  If we released SUPER MPs would we then think it was fine for players to collect all of the MPs but not all of the SMPs?

    TLDR: Balance the game and give us a reasonable avenue to collect ALL of the cards.
    How do you do this? I have all the Mythics and 250k orbs. How can I get a guaranteed masterpiece?
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mainloop25 said:
    Gunmix25 said:
    Mainloop25 said:
    For me ,a lack of new things to do with my cards would bore me and make me quit way faster than any other factor(other than bugs, but that is a separate issue from boredom). If they keep giving us new challenges and restrictions, it would still be fun to use all those cards in new and interesting ways.


    Dude.... You're a fellow survivor of the Great Lull Period! Aug 2017 to February 2018.  So I gotta ask... just how bad do things have to be before you feel you need to quit??? I can't imagine things getting worse than what we all just went through last fall and winter. And that time in the game was boring ... oh good lord was it boooooooring. lol



    I dunno, couldn't I ask you the same thing? I actually cut my play time down a lot during last summer, believe it or not, and actually got close to quitting on a couple of occasions. Even quit playing for a couple of weeks and deleted the shortcuts to mtgpq related things on my phone for a while. So yeah things got that bad. 
    Nope, never did quit. Just played and supported my coalition and stayed in contact with them daily. I played this game most days, admittedly I was getting annoyed by RotGP near the end,  but I some how managed to find new ways to build decks to maintain interest.  I do know many players who went quiet for awhile before Things started to revitalize
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    ZW2007- said:
    Gunmix25 said:
    Mainloop25 said:
    "It's bad for business" is a reason I hear tossed around a lot. Can anybody prove that? Not saying it's not true, but people state it as a fact without ever providing evidence. 
    I personally run a hardware/lumberyard business and in my line of work I am involved in construction sales, especially the kind that involves quotes. In many cases I will either drop prices to cost for some items and for most I will offer full retail; in rarer cases I will offer free product. The reasoning behind all of the above is to draw in clients that will bring in their money to pay for my operation bills, my employees, my utilities, my orders, my taxes ... the list goes on and on. I highly depend on return business, so I need to make financial calls in which I make little to nothing, but I also have to make sure that I earn enough to stay in business.
    Giving away lumber for free literally costs you money because you had to pay for it in the first place. Giving away more digital goods doesn't actually cost them money but it could equate to lost revenue. Comparing those physical goods to these digital goods just doesn't work. You even said it yourself though that you do give stuff away to gain repeat customers, that concept applies here and it also costs them nothing to do it. 
    You couldn't be more wrong. Problem with the digital argument is that for some reason, many think that everything in this app just appears out of no where and D3 profits off a program that appears out of no where. 
    The reality is this.
    Man hours committed to meeting and drawing up plans for each set. Wash and repeat at various stages through out the process.
    Man hours creating code, testing code, fixing code and attending to players who have code issues with devices .i.e. lost accounts
    Man hours dedicated to artwork various app adjustments to keep a fresh image.
    Man hours to Creation of cards and the cataloguing system for the site.
    I can go on and on.... no matter what anyone says... it takes money to create what we play on the app. Period. This game isn't some free resource. It took resources to create every single pixel we use for our entertainment.  So no... it did take money to make those cards despite that you believe they cost no resources to create. Again, you couldn't be more wrong.
  • Aeroplane
    Aeroplane Posts: 314 Mover and Shaker
     I look at the pink gems as a bonus in this game. I'm like " C'mon baby" , not "I'm gonna rage if I don't get something I want"  If they were to include masterpieces in premium packs maybe people wouldn't feel as salty about it. If anything they should increase the percentages in purchase packs as I find them quite low and I throw some salt around when I only get 1 rare from a premium pack.
    I don't know if I'm allowed to compare it to another game , but I was into Puzzle Dragons for quite a while and they were quite frugal in NA compared to their Japanese counterpart. 6 years later they created a strong player base and only recently have they become more generous with their rewards and gifts. Maybe ,PWPQ is still trying to figure or balance out making the game enjoyable , but also profitable. 
    Personally, they should have 3 tiers of pink packs- rares, mythics and masterpieces. i find the masterpieces underwhelming compared to the mythics in the last 2 sets. 
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2018
       Even if pinkies could look as a "free" currency,  they are not, and players once paid for it and are still paying for it in some ways.
     
      Let's just remember that we used to get 14 boosters for 600 crystals and a chance to pull a mythic instead of the guaranteed rare.
       Let's not forget neither that QB and mythic rewards in events also disapeared more or less when the new rewards structure was introduced, along with pinkies.
       At this point they only introduced pinkies to compensate the huge loss it was for ALL players, (the former 14 booster packs were definitely much more interesting than the premium 5 packs).
       Considering the loss of almost all oportunities to collect mythics, without any obvious reason,  they had to introduce something in return ... Pinks in that case... or they would have faced a riot from the player base and most probably a bunch of goodbyes.

      I don't agree to say that pinks are free. Neither do i think they were introduced to be something kind to players. They are just the glass of water players needed in order to swallow the bitter pill at that time.
       That was more or less Hibernum's vision of valuetown if i may ... And we all know where valuetown is right?

       The argument of things being more generous recently isn't true neither. Events are more rewarding, but we get much less of them, and over the past year they became longer and longer for the same rewards. 
      Hopefully, oktagon heard the voices from the forum and reduced the nodes and ribbons requirements ... But would it be so if players didn't react ? I'm sure it wouldn't.
       Look how many crystals we could collect from events over the 3 past weeks ... Thats ridiculous when you compare to what we could earn even 6 months ago. 
       I'm not even mentionning the generosity of XLN packs ... Or should i say the only packs we get from events ...

       Don't get me wrong ... I can live easily with this ... It's just a game and we deal with pixels and the time we are willing to invest ... But lets be realistic, things are not being better at all as far as rewards are concerned. Pinks are just a part of it actually.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mainloop25 said:
    "It's bad for business" is a reason I hear tossed around a lot. Can anybody prove that? Not saying it's not true, but people state it as a fact without ever providing evidence. 
    I mean...for indisputable proof you'd have to study the annual reports of similar companies, and provide evidence that links specific corporate choices to negative shareholder feedback/stock dives.  Even then, any claims from the outside would still be speculative, you'd have to work inside the marketing/admin dept to know for certain, and you'd probably be in violation of some confidentiality clause if you did choose to share the finer details.
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gunmix25 said:
    ZW2007- said:
    Gunmix25 said:
    Mainloop25 said:
    "It's bad for business" is a reason I hear tossed around a lot. Can anybody prove that? Not saying it's not true, but people state it as a fact without ever providing evidence. 
    I personally run a hardware/lumberyard business and in my line of work I am involved in construction sales, especially the kind that involves quotes. In many cases I will either drop prices to cost for some items and for most I will offer full retail; in rarer cases I will offer free product. The reasoning behind all of the above is to draw in clients that will bring in their money to pay for my operation bills, my employees, my utilities, my orders, my taxes ... the list goes on and on. I highly depend on return business, so I need to make financial calls in which I make little to nothing, but I also have to make sure that I earn enough to stay in business.
    Giving away lumber for free literally costs you money because you had to pay for it in the first place. Giving away more digital goods doesn't actually cost them money but it could equate to lost revenue. Comparing those physical goods to these digital goods just doesn't work. You even said it yourself though that you do give stuff away to gain repeat customers, that concept applies here and it also costs them nothing to do it. 
    You couldn't be more wrong. Problem with the digital argument is that for some reason, many think that everything in this app just appears out of no where and D3 profits off a program that appears out of no where. 
    The reality is this.
    Man hours committed to meeting and drawing up plans for each set. Wash and repeat at various stages through out the process.
    Man hours creating code, testing code, fixing code and attending to players who have code issues with devices .i.e. lost accounts
    Man hours dedicated to artwork various app adjustments to keep a fresh image.
    Man hours to Creation of cards and the cataloguing system for the site.
    I can go on and on.... no matter what anyone says... it takes money to create what we play on the app. Period. This game isn't some free resource. It took resources to create every single pixel we use for our entertainment.  So no... it did take money to make those cards despite that you believe they cost no resources to create. Again, you couldn't be more wrong.
    You seem to be confusing a fixed cost with a variable cost.  An additional piece of lumber costs you additional money.  An additional mythic does not cost D3 additional money.  #Microeconomics

  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    GrizzoMtGPQ said:
    How do you do this? I have all the Mythics and 250k orbs. How can I get a guaranteed masterpiece?
    You can't, I was responding to a previous comment that said giving guaranteed non-dupes would open that door.  I was simply saying, open the door!
  • DumasAG
    DumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    babar3355 said:
    GrizzoMtGPQ said:
    How do you do this? I have all the Mythics and 250k orbs. How can I get a guaranteed masterpiece?
    You can't, I was responding to a previous comment that said giving guaranteed non-dupes would open that door.  I was simply saying, open the door!
    *wink wink* *nudge nudge* I heard you're givin' out free masterpieces. I'm down...
  • ZW2007-
    ZW2007- Posts: 812 Critical Contributor
    Gunmix25 said:
    You couldn't be more wrong. Problem with the digital argument is that for some reason, many think that everything in this app just appears out of no where and D3 profits off a program that appears out of no where. 
    The reality is this.
    Man hours committed to meeting and drawing up plans for each set. Wash and repeat at various stages through out the process.
    Man hours creating code, testing code, fixing code and attending to players who have code issues with devices .i.e. lost accounts
    Man hours dedicated to artwork various app adjustments to keep a fresh image.
    Man hours to Creation of cards and the cataloguing system for the site.
    I can go on and on.... no matter what anyone says... it takes money to create what we play on the app. Period. This game isn't some free resource. It took resources to create every single pixel we use for our entertainment.  So no... it did take money to make those cards despite that you believe they cost no resources to create. Again, you couldn't be more wrong.
    But the game already exists. They already spent the money and man hours to make it, the digital goods that they choose to give away do not cost them anything besides potential lost future revenue, which I already said. They don't have to spend money to buy jewels from a jewel yard to give away to us for free. You do have to spend money to buy lumber from lumber yards to give away for free. You are making false equivalencies. I am well aware that the game costs money to create and operate. On top of all of that, they are already giving away jewels, I never said they needed to give away more jewels. They just need to make the jewels have better perceived value which many of us have already pointed out won't likely effect their bottom line at all because only a very few rare corner cases will be able to benefit from non-dupes by collecting all the cards. Only the top of the top players and spenders will have a collection large enough and resources large enough to capitalize on a non-dupe Elite pack. The rest, and vast majority, of the player base wouldn't see much difference beyond a more enjoyable rewards system.

    Imagine with me if you will that your lumberyard has a reward system where the customer gets 1 lumber point for every dollar spent. Those customers can redeem 1000 lumber points for a scratch-off ticket that has a 1 in 10 chance of getting them $100 off their next purchase and a 9 in 10 chance to reward them with 100 wood points. Wood points can be used to buy another scratch-off ticket once they have 1000 wood points. How many of your customers would like this reward system? Not many. Would they still use it? Yes, some would but others would be annoyed by it so much that they would go to a different lumber yard.
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    *I can see this is a very lively conversation, so I just wanted to give a friendly reminder that everyone makes sure all comments are civil, and that everyone is respectful to their fellow forum members. Thank you!
  • arevala
    arevala Posts: 53 Match Maker
    and again same mythic, I have only 3 mythics from Ixalan, 3 of the 26! and after 8 attemps (yes 8) y got the same mythics from the pink runes. I hope this happens to those who says that dupes dont spoil the game. For me is a strong reason to quit. Get the luck i got and u will see its not funny. Non dupes will keep players hope, otherwise the patience will be lost soon
  • Houdin
    Houdin Posts: 182 Tile Toppler
    I opened 71 premium packs for rivals and didn't get all the mythics. as a matter of fact I was still missing 5.

    I have opened 6 elite packs during rivals and have bot pulled a so for masterpiece nor did I get a new mythic.

    I firmly support this game with money. However this level of feel bad makes me question continuing to do so.

    Can you really say that this is good for business for d3? When even the whales are getting ticked off with the ridiculous number of dupes from elite packs?

    If I can at least know I will get a non dupe from the pinkies I will continue to pay for the game to help barrow the chances to pull a masterpiece. If all I get is dupes what's the point?

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