Well enjoy

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  • ZW2007-
    ZW2007- Posts: 812 Critical Contributor
    bken1234 said:
    babar3355 said:
    I just find it funny that you guys think 1 non-dupe mythic every 2 weeks is a ridiculous concept that is bad for the game. There are 26 mythics in the Ixalan set alone.  Meaning it would take a full year to collect all of the mythics, assuming you didn't snag some Elites instead.

    Even the "ridiculous" wouldn't make the game fully collectible for 99% of players (even ignoring elites).
    While I agree with most of this sentiment -- I don't get upset over free orbs that come from free pink stuff -- it's still all free -- I'd like to point out that it takes most players a lot more than 2 weeks to collect 400 mana jewels -- thus I think the orb reward should be higher, to repay the effort that goes into collecting the currency for all but the very top. 
    I slightly disagree that orbs are free. They are now a part of the game and expected when opening packs. If you pay for a $3.95 gallon of milk with a $5 bill, your $1.05 change is not free. It's expected. With packs we don't know what our orb change will be but we can expect a certain amount. I also disagree that pink stuff is free. It cost me time to get the pink stuff. I don't expect my employer to pay me if I don't work. I also don't expect to get pink stuff if I don't take the time to play the events and earn it. Our time spent in this game is valuable to the company even if it isn't earning them dollars and cents. It provides other players with someone to compete against. F2P players always have the potential to become paying customers. Keeping them around is vital. No reason to push them away.

    As to the main topic at hand, it really doesn't effect me that much personally. I'm doing just fine with how things are now but the current system is a killer for anyone that mostly gets by using jewels to open an Elite+ pack maybe once a month. Sure, if they are only getting 2-3 pulls on any Elite+ pack then dupes aren't a huge concern but they could hit the **** lottery and pull the same card 3 times. That leads players to quit the game. I personally quit playing the game back in the early days when my first two Booster Boxes (600 crystals for 14 packs) only yielded one mythic each: The Great Aurora. I only came back to the game later in OGW when they added the first events to the game and things had seemingly improved. Bottom line: Satisfied customers are more likely to recommend a product to new potential customers. So while no change to the current system may not be bad for the game, improving it would be better for the game.
  • ZW2007-
    ZW2007- Posts: 812 Critical Contributor
    Mburn7 said:
    arevala said:

    If they want to improve things, just dont allow dupes in pink and in orb boosters. And give us a reroll chance after getting a dupe from a premium pack. That sounds fair for me.

    Look, I get the frustration.  I really do.  But the re-rolls basically made the elite packs a guaranteed masterpiece for a lot of people, which really should not happen.  Guaranteed non-dupe would be the same thing.

    Now, if you mean to give a capped number of re-rolls (say 1 or 2) that would be fine, since it would limit the number of dupes you get if you only have 1 or 2 of the cards in the pack without guaranteeing anything for the people with most of them.  Of course, they'd have to build the re-rolls in where you can do it when the card is revealed, but that probably wouldn't be too hard (I know a couple games that use a system like that).

    But yeah, giving people an easily grindable way to get every masterpiece is a bad idea.  Fun as hell, but a bad idea
    Provide me an example where any player could get every masterpiece, easily, and for free.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    ZW2007- said:
    Mburn7 said:
    arevala said:

    If they want to improve things, just dont allow dupes in pink and in orb boosters. And give us a reroll chance after getting a dupe from a premium pack. That sounds fair for me.

    Look, I get the frustration.  I really do.  But the re-rolls basically made the elite packs a guaranteed masterpiece for a lot of people, which really should not happen.  Guaranteed non-dupe would be the same thing.

    Now, if you mean to give a capped number of re-rolls (say 1 or 2) that would be fine, since it would limit the number of dupes you get if you only have 1 or 2 of the cards in the pack without guaranteeing anything for the people with most of them.  Of course, they'd have to build the re-rolls in where you can do it when the card is revealed, but that probably wouldn't be too hard (I know a couple games that use a system like that).

    But yeah, giving people an easily grindable way to get every masterpiece is a bad idea.  Fun as hell, but a bad idea
    Provide me an example where any player could get every masterpiece, easily, and for free.
    A platinum tier player who plays Across Ixalan, Training Grounds, and Trial of the Planes every day will end up getting a premier pack roughly every 2 weeks, while only losing 5 crystals per day (+15 TG, +10 Across, -30 ToTP), which is easily recovered in the weekend events.

    If that player already has most of the mythics in the set (not guaranteed, but I know there are definitely a bunch of people who do) that's a guaranteed masterpiece every 2 weeks.  As the packs rotate, they will get every masterpiece (as well as every offered mythic they do not have) if you get a guaranteed non-dupe.

    For someone like myself who does not have every mythic, in the 2 months that an elite pack is in circulation I would expect 4-5 pulls, which combined with the number of cards from the pack I already have (not a ton, but usually about half of the mythics) would net me at least 1 or 2 masterpieces every rotation (most likely), which would eventually rotate around to them all.  Sure it would take a while, but I'll take a couple masterpieces a month.  But for a top top player, that should cover all or almost all of the masterpieces in the game without spending any money (money will definitely get you all of them if you spend enough)

    To those people saying that spending time playing isn't free, I don't like that argument.  You are choosing to spend time playing a game.  You do not get paid for playing games.  Its literally called free time.  On top of that, the grinding I mentioned above is about 2 hours a day, most likely less depending on your decks.  Its really not that much time or effort.
  • GrizzoMtGPQ
    GrizzoMtGPQ Posts: 776 Critical Contributor
    You cannot get a guaranteed Masterpiece. They are only obtainable via luck.
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mainloop25 said:
    This thread is turning into:

    CAMP 1: "Let us collect all the cards in a reasonable way! "

    CAMP 2: "NO! That would be bad for the game!"

    CAMP 1: "Why?"

    CAMP 2: ? ?? 
    It always does brother, it always does...
  • Gabrosin
    Gabrosin Posts: 259 Mover and Shaker
    I don't think anyone is advocating for someone who has all the mythics to auto-upgrade to a masterpiece.  The odds of what you get should stay the same; it's just that within the band the RNG puts you in, you should not get a duplicate unless you have the whole set.

  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gabrosin said:
    I don't think anyone is advocating for someone who has all the mythics to auto-upgrade to a masterpiece.  The odds of what you get should stay the same; it's just that within the band the RNG puts you in, you should not get a duplicate unless you have the whole set.

    I think you just contradicting yourself.  Sure, nobody is specifically advocating for auto masterpieces, but a guaranteed non-dupe is the same thing.  Unless you mean the non-dupe only applies to the mythics in the pack instead of the whole pack, which would be an intriguing compromise
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    Put me in the camp of an auto-upgrade if you already have all of the mythics.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    It does seem that there are almost political sides to this debate: Game Completionists (GC) vs Gameplay Preservationalists (GP).

    GC: derives satisfaction from completing the card collection, and feels that the inability to do so is an unfair barrier to completing the game.  GC'ers would be more likely to claim that everyone with the same cards would still make different decks because the difference of individual personality and gameplay.

    GP: feels that having all the cards would ruin the game and are more satisfied with not having all the cards.  GP'ers use what they have and making the most of what's available is what contributes to gameplay.

    Note: These are ideal generalizations, every player would fall on a continuum between these two (and possibly more) extremes.

    I would however lean closer to being a GP'er, as having all the cards would make me sad.  I enjoy the pursuit more than the collection.
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ironically, I don't know a single GPer (minus the elites) who actually quit the game.  The only person I know who likely has a full mythic collection and has historically been a big GP proponent is still very active in the game.

    To use his "proverb", I guess the dog rather enjoyed actually catching the car.
  • Froggy
    Froggy Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    Stormcrow said:
    Mainloop25 said:
    This thread is turning into:

    CAMP 1: "Let us collect all the cards in a reasonable way! "

    CAMP 2: "NO! That would be bad for the game!"

    CAMP 1: "Why?"

    CAMP 2: ? ?? 
    Listen, man, you can't just let people acquire ALL the masterpieces. Think of the sheer insanity that might occur if people had Lightning Greaves AND Champion's Helm AND Gauntlet of Power! You might....actually see them in weird edge-case decks on extremely rare occasions. Like I said, total insanity!
    You mean those masterpieces that just rotated out of Standard? I would be intrigued to see that played against me. That player would have got me - fair and square. No much more to say...
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
    Mainloop25 said:
    This thread is turning into:

    CAMP 1: "Let us collect all the cards in a reasonable way! "

    CAMP 2: "NO! That would be bad for the game!"

    CAMP 1: "Why?"

    CAMP 2: ? ?? 


    That isn't my stance.  My stance is the business side of things. While anyone can do whatever they can to gain every card... that option is there. Has anyone made the distinction that by buying the packs you can gain more orbs and from there are able to craft whatever cards you want? Expensive? Sure. So is buying cards that you specifically want on Ebay. Ultimately this game needs to find a balance of free stuff versus pay. As much as I would love free stuff I know full well that free stuff does not finance a business. It's good for marketing and a great way to draw in more players, but money needs to come from somewhere. I can't honestly say that having every card is a bad thing, the influx of cards after the Great conversion when Booster Crafting was released has proven that to be false.

    the only camps I am seeing are these:

    Camp 1: Just collect jewels and crystals and open packs. You get win some and you lose some. part of the game.

    Camp 2: But collecting is so haaaaaaaaaaard!

    Camp 1: But, that's part of the process... to grind.

    Camp 2: But it's so haaaaaaaaaard!

    Not trying to tick people off but that is what I see in here at the moment and I'm obviously exaggerating but the gist is there.

    What ultimately is being asked here is to simply not make the game difficult for collecting ... an irony at best when many players are complaining that the lobotomized Artificial Intelligence of the opponent is making things too easy. ( a direct result of many players griping about how difficult the A.I. was)  Just sayin'


  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    For me ,a lack of new things to do with my cards would bore me and make me quit way faster than any other factor(other than bugs, but that is a separate issue from boredom). If they keep giving us new challenges and restrictions, it would still be fun to use all those cards in new and interesting ways.
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    "It's bad for business" is a reason I hear tossed around a lot. Can anybody prove that? Not saying it's not true, but people state it as a fact without ever providing evidence. 
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
    Mainloop25 said:
    For me ,a lack of new things to do with my cards would bore me and make me quit way faster than any other factor(other than bugs, but that is a separate issue from boredom). If they keep giving us new challenges and restrictions, it would still be fun to use all those cards in new and interesting ways.


    Dude.... You're a fellow survivor of the Great Lull Period! Aug 2017 to February 2018.  So I gotta ask... just how bad do things have to be before you feel you need to quit??? I can't imagine things getting worse than what we all just went through last fall and winter. And that time in the game was boring ... oh good lord was it boooooooring. lol

  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mainloop25 said:
    "It's bad for business" is a reason I hear tossed around a lot. Can anybody prove that? Not saying it's not true, but people state it as a fact without ever providing evidence. 
    I personally run a hardware/lumberyard business and in my line of work I am involved in construction sales, especially the kind that involves quotes. In many cases I will either drop prices to cost for some items and for most I will offer full retail; in rarer cases I will offer free product. The reasoning behind all of the above is to draw in clients that will bring in their money to pay for my operation bills, my employees, my utilities, my orders, my taxes ... the list goes on and on. I highly depend on return business, so I need to make financial calls in which I make little to nothing, but I also have to make sure that I earn enough to stay in business.

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