Well enjoy

135

Comments

  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
    That still doesn't change the fact that to demand pink elites to be non-dupes is a bit much when we already have booster crafting implemented.

    That is not a fact. That is an opinion. One I don't happen to share. I still play Totp and Across Ixalan every time I can for jewels. And it still sucks to get dupes even though they give us a decent amount of orbs for dupes.

    Dupes bought in elite packs should give you 50% more orbs than they would when you acquire them from other sources. I think that is a compromise we can all be ok with. 2 dupe masterpieces in an elite pack would net you a brand new mythic from the current block  That's not unreasonable in my eyes. 
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    That still doesn't change the fact that to demand pink elites to be non-dupes is a bit much when we already have booster crafting implemented.

    That is not a fact. That is an opinion. One I don't happen to share. I still play Totp and Across Ixalan every time I can for jewels. And it still sucks to get dupes even though they give us a decent amount of orbs for dupes.

    oh come on now, you're arguing semantics and you know it, lol. You know what I meant. I can just as easily slip in "doesn't change the point" instead of "doesn't change the fact" and still have the same end result in the discussion.

    Dupes bought in elite packs should give you 50% more orbs than they would when you acquire them from other sources. I think that is a compromise we can all be ok with. 2 dupe masterpieces in an elite pack would net you a brand new mythic from the current block  That's not unreasonable in my eyes. 

    Why should they give you 50% more orbs? I get dupes all the time and while I may tinykitty about it I still stand by my statement that they should not have to make them non-dupe, we have booster crafting for that; and honestly if we really need to make them non-dupe, we might as well do away with elite packs because we don't need two different sources to acquire non-dupe cards.

    regarding jewels I see it like this... I am saving for dominaria and I am almost to 4 PP. Will those PP guarantee a Mythic? Nope... and if it does, do they guarantee that I won't get a dupe of that mythic I just got? nope (speaking from experience here from RIX) I worked my Tinykitty off to earn those crystals and to only get 3 mythics and duped them twice each, it was frustrating, yet I am not in here demanding non-dupe for hard earn crystals or jewels (I duped time pirate twice via elite pack, fun times)  yes it is disappointing, yes it is frustrating, yes it can be even infuriating ... but we still get orbs and to me (yes in my opinion lol ) jewels and crystals are no different in how those orbs are dished out. We are earning jewels for a chance at a much smaller pool of cards and we all knew that going into this thing a year ago with Hibernium and we all still know that is what we are going into with Oktagon. Heck Oktagon even reduced the chances of a dupe in Elite packs. Which admittedly is noticeably better than what Hibernium had set the Elite packs to, (whatever that number was I have no idea).

    Anyways, We have a good system in place. I say keep it that way.

  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2018
    Gunmix25 said:

    Why should they give you 50% more orbs? I get dupes all the time and while I may tinykitty about it I still stand by my statement that they should not have to make them non-dupe, we have booster crafting for that;

    1. You can't craft Masterpieces.

    2. You would have to pull 10/15 dupe Mythics or 2/3 dupe Masterpieces from the Elite Packs to be able to craft 1 non-dupe Mythic from the same set. That's not even remotely balanced.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
    Brakkis said:
    Gunmix25 said:

    Why should they give you 50% more orbs? I get dupes all the time and while I may tinykitty about it I still stand by my statement that they should not have to make them non-dupe, we have booster crafting for that;

    1. You can't craft Masterpieces.

    2. You would have to pull 10/15 dupe Mythics or 2/3 dupe Masterpieces from the Elite Packs to be able to craft 1 non-dupe Mythic from the same set. That's not even remotely balanced.
    1. Still doesn't mean it should not be a dupe.

    2. And you have to pull a 100 commons to craft a single rare. So not seeing your point.  In any exchange for monetary gain, your return is going to be less. If you want higher return on trade, you must realize that the cost of crafting will and should go up. 

    I know my opinions about this topic aren't mainstream in here... but I haven't seen one valid argument appear that justifies making things easier to attain other than "disappointment" and "I feel it's unfair"... neither of which have any basis of support beyond experiencing what is known as risk. Remove that,  and this game loses a huge chunk of what makes the chase so good in MTG. 
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
    The chase is overrated. Maybe it's better in paper, but after opening a few premium packs, it's dupe city from then on. And then it's time to hoard crystals. I dunno about you  but the sting of endless dupes far outweighs the satisfaction of eventually pulling a new card. 
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    "Disappointment" is something we all have to deal with. "Extreme disappointment" that affects every player to some degree is a bad business decision. This is _predictable_, so it's bad game design to have the incentives work this way because you don't want your customers to feel this upset over something they've been working towards. You want your customers to feel "Satisfaction" _most_ of the time when they get something they've been working towards because that means they are more likely to stick around and work towards the next thing.

    It's basic game psychology. It's got nothing to do about what customers "deserve" or anything else, noone deserves anything, it's just about "what feelings are being created in people?" and "how does this affect longterm engagement in the game and likelihood of spending money?".

  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kinesia said:
    "Disappointment" is something we all have to deal with. "Extreme disappointment" that affects every player to some degree is a bad business decision. This is _predictable_, so it's bad game design to have the incentives work this way because you don't want your customers to feel this upset over something they've been working towards. You want your customers to feel "Satisfaction" _most_ of the time when they get something they've been working towards because that means they are more likely to stick around and work towards the next thing.

    Here is the catch. Crystals, like jewels, are hard to come by. Yet we aren't seeing post after post about how unfair it is to see the dupes appearing. The closest to this is a thread About the percentage for drawing mythics in a PP. I get the satisfaction bit, but I view this game a bit like a casino.  I take the risks, sometimes it pays off, other times it doesn't.  

    The chase is overrated. Maybe it's better in paper, but after opening a few premium packs, it's dupe city from then on. And then it's time to hoard crystals. I dunno about you  but the sting of endless dupes far outweighs the satisfaction of eventually pulling a new card. 
    The chase is there,  you know what it's like when a new set appears.  We all open in a rush and in hopes of getting 'that card' ... but you're right, at some point you reach a saturation point in which dupes dominate pack openings. I did get stung by dupes in RIX. I got 11 dupes and only 8 mythics were new. The first 3 mythics were duped 2 times each before I finally got a new mythic. Anyways, at least for me the excitement of that "finally!" Still exists.  Yes, it's demoralizing and frustrating... but my wife takes along to play slots with her at the local casino. The feeling was the same for me.  Kind of stinks until something sticks then its whoo hoo! Haha. I love this game. Both its faults in being difficult to draw much wanted cards, and its joys of crafting new and fun builds to try in events
  • Froggy
    Froggy Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    I opened 5 Elite packs for a Rivals. Pulled 3 non-dupe masterpieces, 1 new mythic and 1 dupe mythic. I was very lucky. I’ve noticed (for me at least) that the dupe rate in Rivals is not as bad as Ixalan. Additionally, the masterpieces in Ixalan are not that great. So now I just stick to crafting Ixalan mythics. And I will craft the remaining Rivals mythics when they go down in orb cost (I need 5 - I have been incredibly lucky on this set). So for me - it’s saving till DOM drops.
  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
    Gunmix25 said:
    Brakkis said:
    Gunmix25 said:

    Why should they give you 50% more orbs? I get dupes all the time and while I may tinykitty about it I still stand by my statement that they should not have to make them non-dupe, we have booster crafting for that;

    1. You can't craft Masterpieces.

    2. You would have to pull 10/15 dupe Mythics or 2/3 dupe Masterpieces from the Elite Packs to be able to craft 1 non-dupe Mythic from the same set. That's not even remotely balanced.
    1. Still doesn't mean it should not be a dupe.

    2. And you have to pull a 100 commons to craft a single rare. So not seeing your point.  In any exchange for monetary gain, your return is going to be less. If you want higher return on trade, you must realize that the cost of crafting will and should go up. 

    I know my opinions about this topic aren't mainstream in here... but I haven't seen one valid argument appear that justifies making things easier to attain other than "disappointment" and "I feel it's unfair"... neither of which have any basis of support beyond experiencing what is known as risk. Remove that,  and this game loses a huge chunk of what makes the chase so good in MTG. 
    We have booster crafting so they shouldn't be non-dupe.
    We can't craft them.
    Oh, well they should still be non-dupe.
    Okay...
  • gogol666
    gogol666 Posts: 316 Mover and Shaker
    DumasAG said:
    Kinesia said:
    I think the costs need to be adjusted but the non-dupe part is needed. The "feelings" _really_ need fixing. This game needs a "game psychologist" like casinos have to sort this stuff out.

    I'd recommend that rare packs only give rares, mythics give mythics and masterpieces only give masterpieces, that removes one of the layers of potential disappointment (getting the lesser level of what is possible).

    Rare only non-dupe pack - 100
    Mythic only non-dupe pack - 300
    Masterpiece only non-dupe pack - 600

    Or bump the last two up to 400 and 800.
    I would add: if they are still using tiered rarity, they should either spell it out or stop.  (In the past, it appears that some rares are harder to get than others, not sure if this is still true.)
    I realize this could be pure chance, but when the RIX elite pack first dropped, a coalition member and I both purchased 2 packs, but they bought theirs two days after I did. We both received Jugan, then Ghalta. I later bought a third pack and received Keiga. They then bought a third pack and received Keiga. Obviously we could have simply hit a weird lottery-type statistical anomaly, but it's very weird.
    I completely hit the same weird lottery-type statistical anomaly: aliens?
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    gogol666 said:
    DumasAG said:
    I realize this could be pure chance, but when the RIX elite pack first dropped, a coalition member and I both purchased 2 packs, but they bought theirs two days after I did. We both received Jugan, then Ghalta. I later bought a third pack and received Keiga. They then bought a third pack and received Keiga. Obviously we could have simply hit a weird lottery-type statistical anomaly, but it's very weird.
    I completely hit the same weird lottery-type statistical anomaly: aliens?
    As someone who bought 3 RIX elite packs and got none of those (despite really wanting Ghalta) I can refute the aliens theory.  I do seem to be the only person who doesn't have Ghalta, so I may be the anomaly after all
  • DumasAG
    DumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    Gunmix25 said:
    wereotter said:
    .

    As for me, once I hit about 40-50% of the mythic rare cards on offer, I stop spending on the packs and save them till they can have the maximum value. 

    Maximum value? I am not exactly sure I understand. Could you expand on this please?
    Have zero of the possible hits? That's maximum value. After that, you'll only get dupes.
  • Coilbox
    Coilbox Posts: 202 Tile Toppler
    Mainloop25 said:

    I still play Totp and Across Ixalan every time I can for jewels.
    I know you do! I see you as an oponent very often actually, and whenever i see ‘Mainloop’ in front of me i can only be scared of when that omniscience is going to drop and ruin my battle xD
  • DumasAG
    DumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    Guaranteed non-dupe leads to higher satisfaction for time committed. Higher satisfaction leads to higher player activity. Higher player activity leads to more sales. More sales leads to more money made. Arguments that dupes shouldn't be allowed, or that the players don't deserve it, don't hold water because it actively works against the interest of the dev team. They want to make money, and the best way to do that is to increase player satisfaction for the one experience that can't realistically be purchased, the grinding and using of unobtainium. 

    The only argument that makes any kind of sense regarding keeping dupes in elite packs is that there will be too many mythics out and about. I personally disagree with this, because I would rather players had better decks for me to play against, but I can at least understand the argument.
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    I just find it funny that you guys think 1 non-dupe mythic every 2 weeks is a ridiculous concept that is bad for the game. There are 26 mythics in the Ixalan set alone.  Meaning it would take a full year to collect all of the mythics, assuming you didn't snag some Elites instead.

    Even the "ridiculous" wouldn't make the game fully collectible for 99% of players (even ignoring elites).
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    babar3355 said:
    I just find it funny that you guys think 1 non-dupe mythic every 2 weeks is a ridiculous concept that is bad for the game. There are 26 mythics in the Ixalan set alone.  Meaning it would take a full year to collect all of the mythics, assuming you didn't snag some Elites instead.

    Even the "ridiculous" wouldn't make the game fully collectible for 99% of players (even ignoring elites).
    While I agree with most of this sentiment -- I don't get upset over free orbs that come from free pink stuff -- it's still all free -- I'd like to point out that it takes most players a lot more than 2 weeks to collect 400 mana jewels -- thus I think the orb reward should be higher, to repay the effort that goes into collecting the currency for all but the very top. 
  • Aeroplane
    Aeroplane Posts: 314 Mover and Shaker
    The recent masterpieces aren't very overpowered. I find the mythics have more uses and more powerful for decks by far. Most MPs are delayed with their abilities and are fragile to exile, conditions and destroy support cards. I've pulled 3 so far, Aether Vial-meh( basically you can't summon your creatures for it to be useful then its gone, Kokusho- not bad but exile, 8 black gems needed for full effect, and Knight of the Reliquary-?still trying to figure this one out, really hard to mesh this one because all the new good land supports are on the secondary flip which doesn't trigger her ability.A really dumbed downed Nyx. After saying this, the 400 pink gem draw should have a much higher rate or be only masterpieces(maybe too much) to give the dupe a little more satisfaction for booster crafting. What masterpiece would you want over the mythic cards Etali, Tishana, Ghalta..etc?
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gunmix25 said:
    wereotter said:
    .

    As for me, once I hit about 40-50% of the mythic rare cards on offer, I stop spending on the packs and save them till they can have the maximum value. 

    Maximum value? I am not exactly sure I understand. Could you expand on this please?

    The fewer mythic rare cards I own, the lower the chance of opening one I already have. So, when Dominaria drops, and I own 0% of the mythic rare cards, chances are good that the first several pulls will be new cards as opposed to duplicates.

    Making pulls when I own too many means chances are good that instead of a new card, I’ll just get crafting orbs. 
  • arevala
    arevala Posts: 53 Match Maker
    This has been long discussed in this forum, and specially nowadays that frustration grows as the poor rewards and so few events around dont compensate our time invested in the game. I got 3 duped MASTERPIECES from Ixalan and 2 duped MASTERPIECES from Rix. Can u imagine that? when MP were introduced in KLD it was a crazy low chance to get one. Now: this cannot be casual guys. Stop defending whats just wrong (calling me "whining"). Things gotta change, and with so little thighs they could get things better. If they dont do it its just because they dont want it.
    Be glad because we now have orbs, great! but we cannot reroll, so its exactly the same thing as before, but no one can see that. If they want to improve things, just dont allow dupes in pink and in orb boosters. And give us a reroll chance after getting a dupe from a premium pack. That sounds fair for me.

  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    arevala said:

    If they want to improve things, just dont allow dupes in pink and in orb boosters. And give us a reroll chance after getting a dupe from a premium pack. That sounds fair for me.

    Look, I get the frustration.  I really do.  But the re-rolls basically made the elite packs a guaranteed masterpiece for a lot of people, which really should not happen.  Guaranteed non-dupe would be the same thing.

    Now, if you mean to give a capped number of re-rolls (say 1 or 2) that would be fine, since it would limit the number of dupes you get if you only have 1 or 2 of the cards in the pack without guaranteeing anything for the people with most of them.  Of course, they'd have to build the re-rolls in where you can do it when the card is revealed, but that probably wouldn't be too hard (I know a couple games that use a system like that).

    But yeah, giving people an easily grindable way to get every masterpiece is a bad idea.  Fun as hell, but a bad idea