Predictions for Our First Colorless Planeswalker

Kinesia

khurram said:

Kinesia said:

I was suggesting he could use all Colorless and then Commons only of any colour. So he 'dabbles' in everything.

If he is aimed as a PW for just beginner level players then sure. How many common level cards anyone uses for serious play? Apart from a few key cards like the AKH support removals , i'd say more than 90% commons and uncommon cards never see play. They are just fillers.

But exactly...

What uses would they have if people were forced to try them?


(And I've long maintained that commons and uncommons should be more usable than they are regardless... I think every time they nerf or buff things they should look at the commons and uncommons that haven't been used _at all_ in the last few months and work out how to help them. They should be lesser, sure, but not so completely useless as some are)

Laeuftbeidir

I don't like the idea of allowing him colored cards based on rarity. Not sure if it's even possible to implement the idea at all.
I would love to see him as playable pw.. But then his mana would have to to help against those expensive cards, and his abilities need to be extremly powerful - at least a token creature included.

Don't forget to count thopters, by the way, hangarback would probably be a must have.

More realistically, I could see him as a creature  or at least an enemy for pve

morgue427

of course you have to give out lots of junk you make the diamonds shine brighter

FindingHeart8

maybe he will be able to use colored cards but only conditionally.

For example: Karn's deck can have cards of any color in them, but his planeswalker cannot cast them.  His first ability (at 3 loyalty or less) creates a 1-shield support (which does not stack) that allows Karn to cast cards of any color.  Then he has something absurd like a +4 to all colors with mana swaps.

He'd be insanely good if his 1st ability supports were on the board, but if those are destroyed he either has to take a turn to gather enough loyalty to use his 1st ability, or not use any other abilities so he has the supports to case his cards.

FindingHeart8

maybe he will be able to use colored cards but only conditionally.

For example: Karn's deck can have cards of any color in them, but his planeswalker cannot cast them.  His first ability (at 3 loyalty or less) creates a 1-shield support (which does not stack) that allows Karn to cast cards of any color.  Then he has something absurd like a +4 to all colors with mana swaps.

He'd be insanely good if his 1st ability supports were on the board, but if those are destroyed he either has to take a turn to gather enough loyalty to use his 1st ability, or not use any other abilities so he has the supports to case his cards.

Mburn7

FindingHeart8 said:

maybe he will be able to use colored cards but only conditionally.

For example: Karn's deck can have cards of any color in them, but his planeswalker cannot cast them.  His first ability (at 3 loyalty or less) creates a 1-shield support (which does not stack) that allows Karn to cast cards of any color.  Then he has something absurd like a +4 to all colors with mana swaps.

He'd be insanely good if his 1st ability supports were on the board, but if those are destroyed he either has to take a turn to gather enough loyalty to use his 1st ability, or not use any other abilities so he has the supports to case his cards.

I think that would be too complex to build around (and oh boy, just think of how buggy it'll be!), but that would be epic.

I love complex risk-reward stuff like that.  Although I think 1 shield is a bit too easy to kill for what it is.  Maybe if at max level it has an added thing that it cannot be destroyed for a turn or 2?
Or what if it isn't a support at all?  Just an ability that says "Until end of turn you may cast up to 2/3/4/100 colored cards" 

morgue427

a one off from cities blessing? can only cast colored cards if you have it?

Mburn7

morgue427 said:

a one off from cities blessing? can only cast colored cards if you have it?

That could work.  Cities Blessing does function like an Emblem, a similar thing would work for this

asm0deus

Mburn7 said:

morgue427 said:

a one off from cities blessing? can only cast colored cards if you have it?

That could work.  Cities Blessing does function like an Emblem, a similar thing would work for this

So basically swap gems until you get enough loyalty to cast the emblem before you could actually do anything?

Mburn7

asm0deus said:

Mburn7 said:

morgue427 said:

a one off from cities blessing? can only cast colored cards if you have it?

That could work.  Cities Blessing does function like an Emblem, a similar thing would work for this

So basically swap gems until you get enough loyalty to cast the emblem before you could actually do anything?

Or use Colorless Stuff.  Its a way to limit the power of using all 5 colors

Brakkis

ard021 said:

Brakkis said:

Loyalty 9: Fetch one of the next two cards in your library and exile the other. Give that card 3/6/9/12 mana.

Loyalty 15: The last card/two cards in your Exile is/are returned to your hand and gain(s) 4/8/12/16 mana.

Loyalty 21: Create a 0/0 Construct. This creature gains +1/+1 (up to +4/+4) per artifact you control.

There are his abilities.

The issue with the last ability is that Artifact isn't a subtype on any cards in MtGPQ.  (Whether or not it should be would probably lead to an argument that would seriously derail the thread.)  You could use colorless supports and creatures, which is how the game tends to deal with it.

I was thinking more along the lines of Equipment support cards being considered as Artifacts. Thought it would probably work better as just Supports.

I'd also like to see a heavy focus on supports for him. Something like a 4/4/8 spread for Creatures, Spells, and Supports. With an 8 support limit, that would put his ultimate ability on par with Kiora's if you have out all 8 supports.

Gunmix25

Gonna take a shot at it. 

0/0/0/0/0 > 1/1/1/1/1 > 2/2/2/2/2 > 3/3/3/3/3

*may play any color but only 5 cards of any color divided or combined. I.e. 1R/1U/1W/1B/1G or 3R/1W/1B or 5G and so on. All other cards must be colorless. 

110 Life

Loyalty 1: [6] (Urza's Foresight) 

* draw 2 cards, then choose 1, exile 1

* draw 3 cards, then choose 1, exile 2. Place a support on the board, whenever any card is exiled you gain 1 loyalty times the number of cards in exile. 

* draw 3 cards, then choose 2, exile 1, chosen cards gain 3 mana. Place a support on the board, whenever any card is exiled you gain 2 loyalty times the number of cards in exile. 

* Draw 4 cards, then choose 2, exile 2, chosen cards gain 4 mana.  Place a support on the board, whenever any card is exiled you gain 4 loyalty times the number of cards in exile. 


Loyalty 2: [9] (Urza's Hindsight):

* place a support on the battlefield that says, "The next card cast by your opponent is destroyed, it's effect does not trigger. Put a copy of the destroyed card in your hand under your control, then this support is destroyed."

* place a support on the battlefield that says, "The next card cast by your opponent is destroyed, it's effect does not trigger. Put a copy of the destroyed card in your hand under your control with 6 mana, then this support is destroyed."

* place a support on the battlefield that says, "The next card cast by your opponent is destroyed, it's effect does not trigger. Put a copy of the destroyed card in your hand under your control with mana equal to the number of gems of that card's color times 2. Then this support is destroyed."
* place a support on the battlefield that says, "The next card cast by your opponent is destroyed, it's effect does not trigger. Put a copy of the destroyed card in your hand under your control, with full mana then this support is destroyed."

Loyalty 3: [18] (Urza's Mirror): 
* Gain control of the 1st and last card in your opponent's hand, both cards are drained of their mana. 

* Gain control of the 1st and last card in your opponent's hand.

*Gain control of the 1st and last card in your opponent's hand. Your opponent discards the remaining cards. 

*Gain control of all cards in your opponent's hand. 

morgue427

seems the powers would be a bit strong there i think honestly draw support destruction and stealing their whole hand? sorry but it sounds like some one wants a big easy button as it is.

Gunmix25

morgue427 said:

seems the powers would be a bit strong there i think honestly draw support destruction and stealing their whole hand? sorry but it sounds like some one wants a big easy button as it is.

Okay, I just gave a sample. No need to get tinykitty about it.  

That said, are you aware that only 98 colorless cards are available in standard? Compared to 181 avg for each color that is pathetically low. About 16 creatures exist, some spells of the same number and the rest are supports. ... so yeah, why can't a PW like this steal a hand? He doesn't have removal like Ob nor anywhere the number of cards available to his disposal. Much less have a 3rd loyalty that has end game potential like Ob has. Stealing a hand is situational... you're thinking full hand. Sure. But a that hand could just as easily be just 1 or 2 cards. 2nd loyalty is single shield (if i didn't put that down then that's on me) easily destroyed via swapping but big pay off if not. I felt this would allow a PW who has little access to cards to be somewhat viable. 

Brakkis

His loyalty abilities need to reflect his paper abilities in some manner and those go completely off the rails. The suggestion I made for him mirrors his actual paper abilities, including a Kiora level ultimate when the deck is built for it.

Gunmix25

Brakkis said:

His loyalty abilities need to reflect his paper abilities in some manner and those go completely off the rails. The suggestion I made for him mirrors his actual paper abilities, including a Kiora level ultimate when the deck is built for it.

The 1st loyalty does. But Karns others do not translate  well into PQ. That and you're dealing with a card deficit in PQ whereas the paper does not. G3 doesn't reflect his Abilities. In fact his are from another PW entirely. One that was B/U. 

THEMAGICkMAN

I think he'd be good with rounded mana gains and good abilities, and being able to choose 1 colour per deck out of any of the 5 - but only that one colour. I think this is a good middle ground to make him flexible (as colourless cards are meant to be) and balanced.

morgue427

gun mix i was not trying to be tiny kitty about it,  but not everyone knows all of the past about mtg, and how this may or may not be representative of karn, just a quick look and all of those abilities seem  game winning on their own,before you know that their are limiting factors, which everyone will try to min/max to  make as strong as humanly possible, not being mean just asking would you want to go againt him in a random battle? if you wouldnt be able to win againt it why would others want to play againt it? Playing it of course who wouldnt want to play it, just not agianst it.

Gunmix25

morgue427 said:

gun mix i was not trying to be tiny kitty about it,  but not everyone knows all of the past about mtg, and how this may or may not be representative of karn, just a quick look and all of those abilities seem  game winning on their own,before you know that their are limiting factors, which everyone will try to min/max to  make as strong as humanly possible, not being mean just asking would you want to go againt him in a random battle? if you wouldnt be able to win againt it why would others want to play againt it? Playing it of course who wouldnt want to play it, just not agianst it.

I agree that in the past people want an "easy button." Seen a ton of it in KLD/AER.  You could easily have chosen a much different tone as I was just trying to have some fun in here. As to mtg, been playing since homelands, anyways,  The trouble with Karn is his colorless signification.

A: if we give him access to all cards in all colors like he should be able to... in PQ he would be OP as heck. In paper he's not. Simply because we do not have limited decks and easily repeatable effects aka Loops. 

B: If we choose to follow the way PQ runs the show and he is strictly colorless... well, why bother really? 98 cards is all he has to use in standard. 

Imho. He should be skipped or rewritten to reflect the mechanics in PQ. I choose the former personally.  I like the idea of the guy but suspect he will be one of the worst PW... and H1 set a really low bar. 

morgue427

see what you mean and it is hard to tell how they will make him playable or if they will take a pass on him, personally i would like a colorless but how to reign him in? perhaps +1 on all colors? doesnt soud like much until you think about what color all the land gem changers are ;-)