Predictions for Our First Colorless Planeswalker

FindingHeart8

Alright guys, how do you think Octagon is going to spin this? 




What's your ideas on converted abilities, mana bonuses, etc.  Will we soon be complaining that this is the most OP planeswalker ever?  What's your opinion?

Mburn7

The last ability will probably be something similar to Sram (gets bonus based on number of colorless cards out and/or played).

The second will probably be just "Return the last one of your cards that was exiled to your hand and give it mana" (like a better but more niche Jace 1)

The first will probably be completely different.  No way they can port that well.

Now the interesting thing would be how they make the deck stuff.
Can he use cards of any color, or only colorless ones?  I'd lean toward the second one if they make the abilities powerful enough.  Using cards of any color makes him way too OP, as well as being confusingly flavored (since it would be essentially the same as a 5 color walker)

Mana gains would probably be +2 or +3 to every color.  If he can use only colorless cards, I'd say +3 or +4

Ciotog

They would need to add quite a few more colorless cards if he will be restricted to colorless only.  Right now there are ~180 standard legal cards in every color, but only 98 colorless cards. I agree that he can't be a 5 color walker...as much fun as that could be.

FindingHeart8

Mburn7 said:

The last ability will probably be something similar to Sram (gets bonus based on number of colorless cards out and/or played).

The second will probably be just "Return the last one of your cards that was exiled to your hand and give it mana" (like a better but more niche Jace 1)

The first will probably be completely different.  No way they can port that well.

Now the interesting thing would be how they make the deck stuff.
Can he use cards of any color, or only colorless ones?  I'd lean toward the second one if they make the abilities powerful enough.  Using cards of any color makes him way too OP, as well as being confusingly flavored (since it would be essentially the same as a 5 color walker)

Mana gains would probably be +2 or +3 to every color.  If he can use only colorless cards, I'd say +3 or +4

I agree with you on the man gains, the first ability would probably have to be something different (maybe choose 1 of the next 2 cards in your library, that card gains 6 mana [9 if Karn is restricted to colorless only cards]).

A colorless card restriction maybe pretty difficult with Kaladesh in legacy now.  Dominaria and Ixalan don't have a lot of colorless cards.  In Standard he would just be "Karn, the living Pirate Ship Port," or (if Origins) "Karn, the metal beehive of Thopters!"

ard021

I assumed they'd skip him, and maybe pull in a PW from an older set.  Only colorless  has some major issues in Standard especially.  It would probably work in Legacy, since there would be the cards from the Eldrazi sets and Kaladesh block to work with, but looking at what's currently available in Standard... it's grim, and not likely to improve that much with Dominaria (especially with most of the Spells leaving with Amonkhet block.)

Letting him use all colors would be similarly problematic.  Bolas with access to green ramp sounds pretty awful, never mind adding white in there as well.

Mburn7

ard021 said:

I assumed they'd skip him, and maybe pull in a PW from an older set. 

Honestly, they probably won't have to worry about an older walker.  There have already been 2 walkers spoiled so far (mono red Jaya and UW Teferi), and release is still several week away.  Given Dominaria's history, I wouldn't be surprised if 1 or 2 more show up

ard021

Mburn7 said:

ard021 said:

I assumed they'd skip him, and maybe pull in a PW from an older set. 

Honestly, they probably won't have to worry about an older walker.  There have already been 2 walkers spoiled so far (mono red Jaya and UW Teferi), and release is still several week away.  Given Dominaria's history, I wouldn't be surprised if 1 or 2 more show up

I think Mark Rosewater said on his blog that they'd all been revealed in the release notes. I think in there it was Jaya, Karn, Teferi, and a Chandra that I assume is for the PW decks (which MtGPQ has been ignoring, since they're not considered tournanent-viable.) 3 is the standard for a large set, I believe.

wereotter

There are only 16 colorless creatures in standard right now, and there will probably only be 3 or 4 more added with Dominaria. Seems plenty considering I only ever see the same 4 creatures every time I see planeswalkers of certain colors anyway.

It wouldn't surprise me in more seriousness if he is released as a colorless only planeswalker that is really only powerful in legacy matches where he can use the Kaladesh set cards. There were 40 creatures between Kaladesh and Aether Revolt, so building for him in that regard might be viable.

Toodles

Maybe they make it so you can use any single color of cards. So you could build a Red Karn deck for one event, and a blue deck for the next. 

FindingHeart8

wereotter said:

There are only 16 colorless creatures in standard right now, and there will probably only be 3 or 4 more added with Dominaria. Seems plenty considering I only ever see the same 4 creatures every time I see planeswalkers of certain colors anyway.

It wouldn't surprise me in more seriousness if he is released as a colorless only planeswalker that is really only powerful in legacy matches where he can use the Kaladesh set cards. There were 40 creatures between Kaladesh and Aether Revolt, so building for him in that regard might be viable.

With 3 colors at 850 crystals, 2 colors at 650 crystals, and 1 color at 295...but much would he cost with access to no colors?

Or....if he had access to all colors, how many more crystals would he cost (1000+)?

ZW2007-

I speculated that he could have access to all colors but be limited to how many cards of a single color go into his deck. I think 2 of any color and any amount of colorless would be good. So you could build a deck with 2 white, 2 blue, 2 black, 2 red, and 2 green cards in it but not a deck with 3 green, 2 black and 5 colorless.

wereotter

FindingHeart8 said:

wereotter said:

There are only 16 colorless creatures in standard right now, and there will probably only be 3 or 4 more added with Dominaria. Seems plenty considering I only ever see the same 4 creatures every time I see planeswalkers of certain colors anyway.

It wouldn't surprise me in more seriousness if he is released as a colorless only planeswalker that is really only powerful in legacy matches where he can use the Kaladesh set cards. There were 40 creatures between Kaladesh and Aether Revolt, so building for him in that regard might be viable.

With 3 colors at 850 crystals, 2 colors at 650 crystals, and 1 color at 295...but much would he cost with access to no colors?

Or....if he had access to all colors, how many more crystals would he cost (1000+)?

Obviously free for having only colorless

ard021

wereotter said:

FindingHeart8 said:

wereotter said:

There are only 16 colorless creatures in standard right now, and there will probably only be 3 or 4 more added with Dominaria. Seems plenty considering I only ever see the same 4 creatures every time I see planeswalkers of certain colors anyway.

It wouldn't surprise me in more seriousness if he is released as a colorless only planeswalker that is really only powerful in legacy matches where he can use the Kaladesh set cards. There were 40 creatures between Kaladesh and Aether Revolt, so building for him in that regard might be viable.

With 3 colors at 850 crystals, 2 colors at 650 crystals, and 1 color at 295...but much would he cost with access to no colors?

Or....if he had access to all colors, how many more crystals would he cost (1000+)?

Obviously free for having only colorless

That's actually an interesting idea. He'd be a total gimmick PW, since even in Legacy certain effects would be unavailable or overpriced, and you'd need to get creative to make him work, but it might inspire some players to drop more crystals than they otherwise would on Kaladesh or Innistrad packs.

asm0deus

Keep him colorless with access to only colorless cards. Give him max 6 creatures/6 spells/8 supports. Max mana gains +3 for every color. Around 125-130 HP. Abilities could be at max level: 1st: look at top 4 cards in your library, fetch 2 and give them 10 mana and exile the rest. 2nd: return 2 or (maybe)4 exiled permanents to the battlefield. 3rd: create a +X/+X colorless construct with reach,where X is equal to the number of colorless permanents currently on the battlefield(maybe multiplied by 2). Well, just a thought.

mrixl2520

As interesting as a colorless PW would be for Puzzle Quest, you can always build one of the existing PWs with colorless cards. Personally I'd be fine with them putting Karn on the backburner for a while IN EXCHANGE for Bant Tamiyo.

Brakkis

Loyalty 9: Fetch one of the next two cards in your library and exile the other. Give that card 3/6/9/12 mana.

Loyalty 15: The last card/two cards in your Exile is/are returned to your hand and gain(s) 4/8/12/16 mana.

Loyalty 21: Create a 0/0 Construct. This creature gains +1/+1 (up to +4/+4) per artifact you control.

There are his abilities.

ard021

Brakkis said:

Loyalty 9: Fetch one of the next two cards in your library and exile the other. Give that card 3/6/9/12 mana.

Loyalty 15: The last card/two cards in your Exile is/are returned to your hand and gain(s) 4/8/12/16 mana.

Loyalty 21: Create a 0/0 Construct. This creature gains +1/+1 (up to +4/+4) per artifact you control.

There are his abilities.

The issue with the last ability is that Artifact isn't a subtype on any cards in MtGPQ.  (Whether or not it should be would probably lead to an argument that would seriously derail the thread.)  You could use colorless supports and creatures, which is how the game tends to deal with it.

khurram

ZW2007- said:

I speculated that he could have access to all colors but be limited to how many cards of a single color go into his deck. I think 2 of any color and any amount of colorless would be good. So you could build a deck with 2 white, 2 blue, 2 black, 2 red, and 2 green cards in it but not a deck with 3 green, 2 black and 5 colorless.

This is the only idea I like so far. Access to all colors but limited.

khurram

Why does Karn seem so scholarly in this art?
Or is he just a poser; he is obviously not reading that book.

Kinesia

I was suggesting he could use all Colorless and then Commons only of any colour. So he 'dabbles' in everything.

khurram

Kinesia said:

I was suggesting he could use all Colorless and then Commons only of any colour. So he 'dabbles' in everything.

If he is aimed as a PW for just beginner level players then sure. How many common level cards anyone uses for serious play? Apart from a few key cards like the AKH support removals , i'd say more than 90% commons and uncommon cards never see play. They are just fillers.