Hualti, Radiant Champion and the clueless designers from Oktagon

24

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  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    babar3355 said:
    bken1234 said:
    She's powerful --insanely broken, powerful-- but whether or not she's useful like that is another story. 

    I've played more than 50 matches with her so far --- she's great for aggro and cool gimmicky things, but I would advise players on a budget to get Angrath first. We have plenty of green aggro -- 

    When I tried to build her around objectives, I finished with Angrath with better life percentage every time. 

    A well balanced PW has abilities that offer you a robust experience, she doesn't offer much for control -- I like Angrath a lot better for events, as his abilities allow you to fill holes in your deck. 
    Well, I have played neither of them.  But from a card access standpoint, I would say white is possibly the strongest control color. (Excellent creature control and support removal). Green is by far the best when it comes to mana ramp.  The only thing AJ2 was really missing was consistent card draw.  Seems to me like H2 fixes this problem in spades.  It's hard for me to believe I can't put together a highly tuned and balanced deck that will also be oppressively strong when piloted by a player.

    Then again, apparently we don't care how broken something is as long as Greg can't pilot it. 
    True, but you have a great collection. 

    From the standpoint of someone with 400, 800 or even 1000 cards, abilities make up for those control cards. 
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    babar3355 said:
    Then again, apparently we don't care how broken something is as long as Greg can't pilot it. 
    Bingo.  Broken is fun to play with, no fun to face.  If we can play it and can't face it, who cares? [sarcasm-ish]
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    babar3355 said:
    bken1234 said:
    She's powerful --insanely broken, powerful-- but whether or not she's useful like that is another story. 

    I've played more than 50 matches with her so far --- she's great for aggro and cool gimmicky things, but I would advise players on a budget to get Angrath first. We have plenty of green aggro -- 

    When I tried to build her around objectives, I finished with Angrath with better life percentage every time. 

    A well balanced PW has abilities that offer you a robust experience, she doesn't offer much for control -- I like Angrath a lot better for events, as his abilities allow you to fill holes in your deck. 
    Well, I have played neither of them.  But from a card access standpoint, I would say white is possibly the strongest control color. (Excellent creature control and support removal). Green is by far the best when it comes to mana ramp.  The only thing AJ2 was really missing was consistent card draw.  Seems to me like H2 fixes this problem in spades.  It's hard for me to believe I can't put together a highly tuned and balanced deck that will also be oppressively strong when piloted by a player.

    Then again, apparently we don't care how broken something is as long as Greg can't pilot it. 
    I agree with what @bken1234 said.

    Our views on these forums are a bit biased from an end-game perspective.

    We've more or less beaten this game, we've climbed to the top of the mountain.  Yet now we stand at the peak blaming Octagon for not giving us wings to fly, and forgetting all the people that are still climbing.

    Most players cannot abuse these cards as easily as we can.
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    bken1234 said:
    True, but you have a great collection. 

    So do you! Lol.  

    I was simply saying that taking W/G and adding lots of card draw seems like it will make a really strong PW.  I am surprised you find Angrath more consistent.  I look forward to playing with both.
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    babar3355 said:
    bken1234 said:
    True, but you have a great collection. 

    So do you! Lol.  

    I was simply saying that taking W/G and adding lots of card draw seems like it will make a really strong PW.  I am surprised you find Angrath more consistent.  I look forward to playing with both.
    When I judge, I don't use the majority of my cards, I try to pull from the cards that a regular player would have -- H2 is broken in a deck with 5 mythics, Angrath is powerful in a deck with only commons and uncommons. I can use his second for control or his third for an alternative win condition. With her I get draw and manna -- however I did player her beginner deck last night and used the 1-2 combo for some control. That was nice, but I lost a lot of creatures and it took FOREVER.
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    @Gunmix25 thanks, that was an insightful post. I will keep it in mind when she comes out for crystals.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    @Mainloop25 You're very welcome.  I thought I'd give an honest report about her. She's strong,  but she certainly has her limitations as well. 
  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
    FindingHeart8 said:
    all of these walkers, as scary as they may be...are still nothing in comparison to the overpowered insanity that was Gideon1 and his bff Runaway Carriage
    I would be playing this game if not for Runaway carriage and I was  a new player back then. The card allowed me to quickly clear 95%+ of story mode in no time. Got so much runes and crystals, which was a super boost. Was losing less games to strong players.
    Deck building choices were limited since you always had to account for counter to runaway carriage.

    The card was stronger than cycling which requires many pieces to pilot. I still don't have drake.
    If I recall origin PWs were already nerfed for being too strong. Fast forward, Koth, Nahiri and Sorin were considered too strong
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 978 Critical Contributor
    @GrizzoMtGPQ
    First of all, even if you don't like something oktagon has or hasnt done, don't be disrespectful about it.

    Second what do tokens have to do with this? (am I missing something?)

    Third, to get to the gist of your post: though she is powerfull she isn't gamebreaking in my opinion: the first power does nothing to improve the boardstate or life . the second and third power are quite dependent on the first power, they are not as strong by themselves. This makes her total power strong, but dependent on factors and thus vulnurable.
  • Quantius
    Quantius Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    Have her up to lvl 45 now.  I have to say, it feels like a lot of her power stems from the usual suspects, namely ramp like Hour of Promise. Even with her fantastic mana gen it's the ramp spells that create the crazy chains and enable a board full of big beaters. 
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    MADAFAKA said:
    FindingHeart8 said:
    all of these walkers, as scary as they may be...are still nothing in comparison to the overpowered insanity that was Gideon1 and his bff Runaway Carriage
    I would be playing this game if not for Runaway carriage and I was  a new player back then. The card allowed me to quickly clear 95%+ of story mode in no time. Got so much runes and crystals, which was a super boost. Was losing less games to strong players.
    Deck building choices were limited since you always had to account for counter to runaway carriage.

    The card was stronger than cycling which requires many pieces to pilot. I still don't have drake.
    If I recall origin PWs were already nerfed for being too strong. Fast forward, Koth, Nahiri and Sorin were considered too strong
    I'm confused, did you mean you would not be playing this game if not for runaway carriage, or did you quit the game?

    I'm jealous you got the card, I lost hundreds of battles (that I would very likely have won) to the Gideon/Carriage Wall.  Didn't obtain the card until after it was fixed.  Enough salt to fill an ocean lol.

    I don't think they nerfed any of the walkers to my knowledge.  The only cards I've heard actually getting nerfed are creatures like Baral.
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2018
    andrewvanmarle said:
    @GrizzoMtGPQ
    First of all, even if you don't like something oktagon has or hasnt done, don't be disrespectful about it.

    Second what do tokens have to do with this? (am I missing something?)

    Third, to get to the gist of your post: though she is powerfull she isn't gamebreaking in my opinion: the first power does nothing to improve the boardstate or life . the second and third power are quite dependent on the first power, they are not as strong by themselves. This makes her total power strong, but dependent on factors and thus vulnurable.

    Level 4: Create a support with “Whenever you match 3 or more White or Green gems, gain X Loyalty where X is 3 plus the number of creatures and creature reinforcements you control.”
    -> tokens are easy to reinforce en masse


    I disagree: the second and mostly the third ability are extremly strong by themselves (green and card draw is always extremly dangerous by design. Kiora, reason, Rashmi? Card advantage +mana = boom). The only reason why it's somehow balanced is due to the fact that you can activate her ultimate only once - but the first ability makes it reliable to be used every turn.

    Edit :
    @FindingHeart8
    As far as I know sorin spawned tokens in his original form. Kiora was nerfed (in a very good way), I recall Jace 1 and koth were different, too

  • Coilbox
    Coilbox Posts: 202 Tile Toppler
    edited March 2018
    What did that gideon-carriage combo consist of? i dont think i was here then, so im wondering how was it so powerful and game-breaking...
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    Coilbox said:
    What did that gideon-carriage combo consist of? i dont think i was here then, so im wondering how was it so powerful and game-breaking...
    Runaway Carriage originally had hexproof and prevent damage.  Gideon 1 could give it vigilance and flying, and you'd have an invincible wall that still dealt damage and couldn't be targeted.

    @Laeuftbeidir

    I must have missed that, it took me a while in my weenie days to accumulate enough crystals to get the better walkers, and I wasn't active on the boards back then either ;)
  • Coilbox
    Coilbox Posts: 202 Tile Toppler
    FindingHeart8 said:
    Coilbox said:
    What did that gideon-carriage combo consist of? i dont think i was here then, so im wondering how was it so powerful and game-breaking...
    Runaway Carriage originally had hexproof and prevent damage.  Gideon 1 could give it vigilance and flying, and you'd have an invincible wall that still dealt damage and couldn't be targeted.

    Oeh I see... but... wasnt there any removers that didnt target the actual creature by then...? was it 'that' terrible..?
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    FindingHeart8 said:
    I don't think they nerfed any of the walkers to my knowledge.  The only cards I've heard actually getting nerfed are creatures like Baral.
    If I remember correctly, the First ability of the Origins walkers was 6 loyalty (Chandra's was 3).
    They nerfed it to 9 because of complaints that the AI was spamming them every turn due to cascades (see? not a new issue).

    Jace's 2nd was originally better too, apparently, although that nerf was before even my time.

    They also changed the order of evergreens in Gideon's leveling, and tweaked Chandra's damage a few times, with possibly more changes I don't remember.  In the early days Hibernium was very concerned with balance (Seriously, it was very different back then)
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2018
    Coilbox said:
    FindingHeart8 said:
    Coilbox said:
    What did that gideon-carriage combo consist of? i dont think i was here then, so im wondering how was it so powerful and game-breaking...
    Runaway Carriage originally had hexproof and prevent damage.  Gideon 1 could give it vigilance and flying, and you'd have an invincible wall that still dealt damage and couldn't be targeted.

    Oeh I see... but... wasnt there any removers that didnt target the actual creature by then...? was it 'that' terrible..?
    at that time, there were like 3 cards that destroyed the entire board, and they were all mythics with the exception of 1, and we didn't have booster-crafting.

    I had games where I had almost full life, my opponent was at 10 life or less, but a single runaway carriage cost via Gideon me the game.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mburn7 said:
    FindingHeart8 said:
    I don't think they nerfed any of the walkers to my knowledge.  The only cards I've heard actually getting nerfed are creatures like Baral.
    If I remember correctly, the First ability of the Origins walkers was 6 loyalty (Chandra's was 3).
    They nerfed it to 9 because of complaints that the AI was spamming them every turn due to cascades (see? not a new issue).

    Jace's 2nd was originally better too, apparently, although that nerf was before even my time.

    They also changed the order of evergreens in Gideon's leveling, and tweaked Chandra's damage a few times, with possibly more changes I don't remember.  In the early days Hibernium was very concerned with balance (Seriously, it was very different back then)
    oh wow...yeah I had heard that the beginnings of this game were a bit chaotic.  But Chandra's first ability for 3? Wooooo, she'd be soo good.

    Yeah things sound very different back then.  I jumped in right before the beginning of Innistrad, I don't think there were a lot of planeswalker nerfs at that point, though thinking back now I do remember hearing something about Gideon
  • octal9
    octal9 Posts: 593 Critical Contributor
    edited March 2018
    @Laeuftbeidir @FindingHeart8
    no, this is old sorin (edit: also, his loadout was x/3/3 - I can't remember if x was 5, 7, or 8 creatures):

     

    anyway, @Gunmix25 is pretty spot-on. H2, while admittedly strong, absolutely struggles against heavy removal decks.

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