Changes to PVP bracket creation? Devs please comment

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Comments

  • Deimos12
    Deimos12 Posts: 230 Tile Toppler
    And to think I was excited at finally getting a team of 141's...
  • trey9
    trey9 Posts: 102
    Deimos12 wrote:
    And to think I was excited at finally getting a team of 141's...

    Looks like I am in the same boat as you. Absolutely zero reason to progress now. I am guessing if this continues, a lot of people will start to quit.
  • Deimos12
    Deimos12 Posts: 230 Tile Toppler
    For me this will be the breaking point if it's going to stay this way. I don't have the time to slog through teams of nothing but upper tier 141's to get one 3 star cover. It would simply stop being fun.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Deimos12 wrote:
    For me this will be the breaking point if it's going to stay this way. I don't have the time to slog through teams of nothing but upper tier 141's to get one 3 star cover. It would simply stop being fun.

    Agreed. I don't have the time to stress out about a game that is supposed to be fun. Summer is coming and I can find many other things to do.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2014
    Colognoisseur wrote:
    I don't think this is happening the way everyone thinks it is happening.
    I have been top 10 Season 1 standings over the last three PvP's I have been right around top 100 SHIELD Sim over the same time.
    I join PvP within about an hour of the same time every time.
    My brackets have been essentially unchanged in the make up of high level and mid range rosters. I rarely end up in a bracket with any of the other "big guns".
    Over Doctor's Orders, Top Gun, and at least early in Krakadoom I don't see any sign of them here.
    I checked the final standings for my Top Gun bracket, top 5 all greater than 1100 points were high level roster, multiple 141's. second 5 were all mid range with less than 2 141s and one max 2* roster.
    I have seen the point inflation for top places.
    I think the reason for that is Season 1. There are players who now are really pushing at their pvp totals to raise their rank in Season 1 especially as we enter the final 10 days. I think the competitive nature is driving people to score that extra 100 points.
    There have always been easier brackets and i have won my share with 600 points and i have lost my share with 1100 points.
    If it has gotten more competitive at the top and I agree it has blame it on Season 1

    I used to think this way, but look at Purita's examples and the one I found here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6960&start=400#p135161. I think that even with point inflation, the majority of MPQ's playerbase are still a bunch of casual players that enter a PvP event and never reach 500+ points. Something feels off since two weeks ago.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Dealbreaker for me, too. PVP used to be the fun break from the miserable slog of PVE. Now it's hard to say which one's more punishing. A few days ago I was wondering when the next sale would be-- my Patch is close to fully covered, and having a third maxed 3* was worth some money to me-- now the thought of giving these guys any of my money is laughable. I'll give it until the end of Season One to see if they realize their error. If not, I'm gone. Had lots of fun, but I'm not up for any more punishment.
  • daveomite
    daveomite Posts: 1,331 Chairperson of the Boards
    NorthernPolarity wrote:
    Colognoisseur wrote:
    I don't think this is happening the way everyone thinks it is happening.
    I have been top 10 Season 1 standings over the last three PvP's I have been right around top 100 SHIELD Sim over the same time.
    I join PvP within about an hour of the same time every time.
    My brackets have been essentially unchanged in the make up of high level and mid range rosters. I rarely end up in a bracket with any of the other "big guns".
    Over Doctor's Orders, Top Gun, and at least early in Krakadoom I don't see any sign of them here.
    I checked the final standings for my Top Gun bracket, top 5 all greater than 1100 points were high level roster, multiple 141's. second 5 were all mid range with less than 2 141s and one max 2* roster.
    I have seen the point inflation for top places.
    I think the reason for that is Season 1. There are players who now are really pushing at their pvp totals to raise their rank in Season 1 especially as we enter the final 10 days. I think the competitive nature is driving people to score that extra 100 points.
    There have always been easier brackets and i have won my share with 600 points and i have lost my share with 1100 points.
    If it has gotten more competitive at the top and I agree it has blame it on Season 1

    I used to think this way, but look at Purita's examples and the one I found here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6960&start=400#p135161. I think that even with point inflation, the majority of MPQ's playerbase is still a bunch of casual players that enter a PvP event and never reach 500+ points. Something feels off since two weeks ago.

    exactly. That's why I had suggested it could be MMR in the top gun thread and a few of us started trying to figure out why. For as slow as the brackets were filling, it just seemed highly improbable that all of us, the forumites, > 800 point teams, all of a sudden got thrown into the same exact bracket. Think about it. Think about how many players there are for the game. What are the actual odds that would happen? Not only once, but twice in the same PvP?

    Something is definitely off. Just a few weeks ago, that first Doctors Orders, I ended in 2nd with 870 I think. Then each PvP after I've been top 1/5/10. Now, bang, we're all in this same one, the entire top 30 have over 1k in points, people with 900+ in the 50's.

    Just think of the metrics D3 made on those two brackets of death. Between the total points, how many shields were purchased, shield hopping, all of it. D3 made a pretty penny off of these two brackets alone. They had to with minimum 30+ shielded at the same time.

    And yes, I know that getting points for Season 1 has a role in this. But if that were truly the only thing, it implies that a lot of us just took events off and didn't worry about points/placement because we rarely had to face each other like that in that mass quantity.

    So, I agree completely that something has to be different. It's just a matter of what.

    Kudos to the OP on this thread topic...great read.
  • daveomite
    daveomite Posts: 1,331 Chairperson of the Boards
    AlexBatman wrote:
    Guys, I'm noticing these gradual increases too. I'm wondering whether people's actual roster lvl affects these brackets or match making? Ie; if you have a team of 2/3 maxed 3*, a team of 1 maxed 3* and several maxed 2*...and so on?

    I seem to notice a pattern whereby I can reach 8/9/1000pts, at different times during the event, but as soon as I break thresholds to receive awards end up getting hit 2/3 times...as if it's purposely matching me with a different lvl of opp. when I push past these points. It may even be that I'm suddenly matched with active opp? Possibly other bracket leaders or players who are also breaking the same thresholds I am? I inevitably don't get the 100 pt mark award and as I get closer to 1.1k am forced to shield due to these continual retaliations. I've also realised once I hit the point I'm lvl with bracket leaders, that no matter how many times I skip, it just rotates a select 7/8 opp! Often these opp are stronger than me or on less pts than me making them less beneficial targets, esp. If they retaliate. Why give an option to skip when you're not really doing so after the first 100 or so ISO. You're just flipping through a roster of 7 opp? Anyone else seeing this?

    Recently, I broke 1.1k for the first time as did several of my alliance! This was also first time I'd broken 900. I forget which pvp it was. Our leader had 1.7k! We were all really bemused and could all target a high lvl opp. For loads of pts. (Kyip..I think.) next event I got obliterated and struggled for top 25!! I have placed top 10 easily for the past month before this weird change. Everyone, it seemed struggled. Was the blip in the event before some trigger? Did anyone else's see or abuse kyip?

    Lastly, the reason I mention roster is I only have a maxed l.cap and several 2*. In last few events I've grafted to get into top 10. I didn't see maxed 3* until I got into pole positions. My all. Members were struggling at 5/600pts facing maxed 3* and losing their teams before they were even bracket leaders. They have bigger 3* rosters than me...just not the power players (patch/mags/pun) and if they do they're not maxed. I'm worried I'll actually put myself in a worse situation if I max another 3* character... Or even build one that overtakes my top 2* . unless it's a power player?

    Also...does anyone tank anymore? I stopped recently (when shield was erased from prologue) but tried It again today. I used to retreat but this time I played out the matches (nearly as boring as watching daken/storm cascades wipe me out. ironically when I want them to come...they don't!). I'm not sure whether it had an effect. I'd just started the rags pvp so I can't be certain but I was facing 1*storm. Something I'm sure I hadn't faced from the start in top gun pvp (ps-these were opp. Not battleangel hipdudeglasses Or baconmagic that are originally generated)

    What would classify as "strength" for a team?

    If it were having at least 1 3* maxed, I don't have one. My highest is a 115 Torch, and I still wound up in the bracket of death. Season points, ok...I have over 8,300...but then there were people with less than 6k in the bracket. My alliance, ended at 237 in Top Gun and we're 185 in Season 1, so it's not due to being in a top 100 alliance.

    To me, this is part of what's made it all so confusing.
  • daveomite
    daveomite Posts: 1,331 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bowgentle wrote:
    This will be _so much fun_ once Nick Fury is the Top 1 reward!
    Imagine the fun - 2 brackets, each with 250 forumites with multiple 141s slogging it out for top spot!

    While in 200 other brackets, 1 and 2* teams with 700 points are walking away with their Fury cover.

    Yeah, I can totally see us spending HPs to turn each PVP into an elite tourney for a prolonged time, this'll be a really sustainable business model, herding all your veterans and big spenders into the same brackets.

    I'm can't be sure, but a little birdy mentioned that D3 loves money, especially from shields and boosts. Lol.
  • Tharos
    Tharos Posts: 129
    I almost stopped playing pve due to all the recent changes (see the great thread "This Game Isn't Fun Anymore" http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6767).
    But I was still enjoying pvp because it is fair, and I was able to win 1 or 2 3* cover for my 2*->3* transition (still no maxed 3* character). Since 2/3 events, it is impossible.
    Maybe it was just random, as for everyone since two events, but I doubt it. Last pvp event, the first 10 players were all unknown people (read: people from alliance below top 10) with more than 1100 points.
    I fought as never, only to reach 900 and barely won a single patch cover. No way I can do to all pvp events.

    So here is my current status in the game:
    - I have nearly all 2* covers, so tokens are not so helpfull to improve my roster
    - I can't finish PVE event with nice covers when I face level 300 ennemis with my small lvl 85
    - I have a nice alliance finishing at about #200, so I can't have 3* covers from this way
    - I can no longer use PVP to have a 3* cover because my roster is not high enough to reach top 50 since two events

    How can I have a full covered 3* character?
    How many pvp events rewarding the same character do I need, when my only chance is to struggle to have only one 3* cover at a time?

    On the other side, people with leveled up 3* characters are much more able to gain 3* covers they already have. But they need to have a lot of points, not for the covers, but for the season 1.

    I hope some things will change after season 1 (meanwhile, there will be some pvp events to test if these impossible brackets are just a bad luck, or a real change), or I leave this game for good: no more fun, impossible progression, infinitely long time to improve roster. I do not see another option.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Ghast wrote:
    Clintman wrote:
    I am going to hazard a guess that they are not using MMR to aid in bracketing, my guess is they are using your PVP Season ranking to place you in the correct difficulty levels.

    I am basing this on how the PVE Season brackets are evening out now and the right people are in the top spots, who coincidentally happen to be in my brackets when I PVP now.

    If true then it makes sense to avoid S.H.I.E.L.D. Training altogether until the last possible PVP event.

    I see theunwiseone in my main account bracket now. DecoyDuck too. We're sitting on top of the bottom.

    Well can we at least confirm 100% that this is true? I have people scared that they will permanently ruin their MMR/brackets by placing high. If this is NOT true i don't want this kind of rumor propagated.
  • Puritas
    Puritas Posts: 670 Critical Contributor
    klingsor wrote:
    Ghast wrote:
    Clintman wrote:
    I am going to hazard a guess that they are not using MMR to aid in bracketing, my guess is they are using your PVP Season ranking to place you in the correct difficulty levels.

    I am basing this on how the PVE Season brackets are evening out now and the right people are in the top spots, who coincidentally happen to be in my brackets when I PVP now.

    If true then it makes sense to avoid S.H.I.E.L.D. Training altogether until the last possible PVP event.

    I see theunwiseone in my main account bracket now. DecoyDuck too. We're sitting on top of the bottom.

    Well can we at least confirm 100% that this is true? I have people scared that they will permanently ruin their MMR/brackets by placing high. If this is NOT true i don't want this kind of rumor propagated.

    completely untrue
    I haven't played a single match in shield training yet
    but my last pvp bracket was so competitive by 700 pts I wasn't even in top 100
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Nobody of us can confirm 100% how it's working now and good luck getting a dev statement on behind the scenes mechanics.

    My best guess is it's based on your general PVP MMR and time playing some but a minor role.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Just an idea, the new bracketing might consider the player's day count.
  • Willis
    Willis Posts: 49
    pasa_ wrote:
    Just an idea, the new bracketing might consider the player's day count.

    Not sure about that one. I'm on day 92 here and I've been getting thrown into brackets with players who have been playing weeks/months before I started.
  • daveomite
    daveomite Posts: 1,331 Chairperson of the Boards
    pasa_ wrote:
    Just an idea, the new bracketing might consider the player's day count.

    You mean as in how many days they've been playing? I just got the daily reward for my 78th day in game, so, I'm pretty sure my day count is lower than most of the others in the bracket of death 1 & 2.
  • mags1587
    mags1587 Posts: 1,020 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't think day count is a factor, at least, not a major one. Mine is 188 and I wasn't in a bracket of death.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    pasa_ wrote:
    Just an idea, the new bracketing might consider the player's day count.

    I'm on day 180+ and not seeing the crazy brackets.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    daveomite wrote:
    pasa_ wrote:
    Just an idea, the new bracketing might consider the player's day count.

    You mean as in how many days they've been playing? I just got the daily reward for my 78th day in game, so, I'm pretty sure my day count is lower than most of the others in the bracket of death 1 & 2.

    I believe I was in the same death bracket as you for Top Gun; I'm on day 59 today.
    I think day count would be a dicey metric since someone could just log in and play for the daily reward. Though given some other dicey metrics added (e.g. scaling via HP loss), I guess that wouldn't rule it out by itself.
  • daveomite
    daveomite Posts: 1,331 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2014
    Willis wrote:
    pasa_ wrote:
    Just an idea, the new bracketing might consider the player's day count.

    Not sure about that one. I'm on day 92 here and I've been getting thrown into brackets with players who have been playing weeks/months before I started.

    another thought...did you pay for any covers then level anyone above 100? Do you have any 141 characters?

    Reason I ask, is at the beginning of the Hunt, I had some hp/iso, and I bought covers for my Torch, who was 1/0/3 I believe. I got him to 5/0/5, then leveled him to 115. Around the same time, I also bought the final two covers for Spidey's blue and leveled him to 66.

    After that, by the second day of the Hunt, my scaling really went bonkers. By the 5th day, had my first 395. Sixth day, at least 2 more. 7th day, had 395 for all three Bullseye levels and Ares and a few others, the rest were average >300. I had not even touched Spidey in any node until after I got that first bullseye3 395 node. So, I wasn't because I was stunning like crazy.

    Since that time, I also noticed differences in my brackets in PvP, being faced with 141 teams at or near the beginning of one, on average. Even though Torch is not 141, and is currently the only character above 100. I have Psy and Pun both at 90, and both can be leveled to the 120 range, but have held off to see what happens regarding scaling.

    I'm not saying it has anything to do with the bracketing, but may have something to do with their "strength of roster" line. As in, because I bought covers for and leveled Torch to 115, I may have inadvertently triggered something in the system that caused it to think I was actually stronger than just having Torch at 115. Then because of how often I play, and my overall progress and placements in pve's and pvp's, it lifted my MMR in comparison to where it, the system, thought I was as a player.

    just a line of thought is all though.

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