The Safe Rant Thread for Letting Off Steam.

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  • Quantius
    Quantius Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    If I cascaded with the frequency and intensity of the AI, I'd eat my phone.
  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
    Quantius said:
    If I cascaded with the frequency and intensity of the AI, I'd eat my phone.

    You can, and you do. The difference is that to compensate for stupid AI, they give the AI in PvE events greater mana gains from matches. So while you get an equivalent amount of matches and cascades, the AI gets nearly double the mana from them. Sometimes more than that in the higher nodes.
  • Quantius
    Quantius Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    Brakkis said:
    Quantius said:
    If I cascaded with the frequency and intensity of the AI, I'd eat my phone.

    You can, and you do. The difference is that to compensate for stupid AI, they give the AI in PvE events greater mana gains from matches. So while you get an equivalent amount of matches and cascades, the AI gets nearly double the mana from them. Sometimes more than that in the higher nodes.
    No I don't, and I doubt you do either.

    I'm not really interested in arguing what is literally happening in front of my eyes when I'm playing mtgpq. You can sing till the cows come home about confirmation bias or that I get anywhere near the same amount of bonus swaps and cascades, but I don't.


  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
    Quantius said:
    Brakkis said:
    Quantius said:
    If I cascaded with the frequency and intensity of the AI, I'd eat my phone.

    You can, and you do. The difference is that to compensate for stupid AI, they give the AI in PvE events greater mana gains from matches. So while you get an equivalent amount of matches and cascades, the AI gets nearly double the mana from them. Sometimes more than that in the higher nodes.
    No I don't, and I doubt you do either.

    I'm not really interested in arguing what is literally happening in front of my eyes when I'm playing mtgpq. You can sing till the cows come home about confirmation bias or that I get anywhere near the same amount of bonus swaps and cascades, but I don't.



    I can sing because people have gathered the data and shown it to us here. I can sing because they've done the math and have hard figures to support their statements. You have... an opinion of what you've personally dealt with.

    Elenda in BoFT ruins my day every time that event comes around with crazy first and second turn drops and I hate the node. Is the node somehow better at cascading than any other node? No; but, her mana gains are high, her deck is nasty, and her abilities make her atrocious.

    I can and do frequently drop the same nasty cascades against the AI, and so do pretty much everyone else. Again, the difference is in the mana bonuses behind those cascades.
  • Quantius
    Quantius Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    Link to the data. I feel like you're all gaslighting me right now, esp saying that you get cascades like the AI. There's no way you get cascades like the AI unless we're playing different games.
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quantius said:
    Link to the data. I feel like you're all gaslighting me right now, esp saying that you get cascades like the AI. There's no way you get cascades like the AI unless we're playing different games.
    Perception
     bias is a real thing. If you have the feeling that the ai has an advantage, there is one thing you could do to make sure whether you're right or wrong: collect the data for yourself in a spreadsheet. I did it for myself, a and even in several games where I felt I had a disadvantage, it tourned out that overall I still had an advantage
  • Quantius
    Quantius Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    Making a spreadsheet. May as well.
  • Quantius
    Quantius Posts: 228 Tile Toppler

    I just played against heroic story mode AI using a different deck each time. I won each game, cause the AI is dumb of course. The 3rd and 4th  games were touch and go as the AI had a couple big turns.

    I have a lot more turns with just a single match it seems, so it feels worse than it is. The AI's smallest advantage was 4 matches more and it's biggest was 10 matches more. So I will say that I was expecting a lot more cascades from the AI, but it feels worse than it is because the AI gets more 2-3 cascades with more frequent 3+ cascades than I do.

    That 4th game though with the 8, 9, 5, 5 cascades from the AI would have been GG for me if I didn't happen to be running a deck with Hour of Devastation and had it charged up.


    Maybe over time it balances out, but I have no idea how large of a sample size I'd need before I got a good picture of what I'm experiencing. All I know is that blow-outs due to cascades SUUUUUUUUUCK.


  • joerginger
    joerginger Posts: 198 Tile Toppler
    edited June 2018
    The AI cascades as much as it wants whenever it wants. The player - not so much. Not at all, in fact. Play Bolas, and Bolas gets matches in anything but its three colours, and that's normal.
  • Volrak
    Volrak Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
    Quantius said:
    Making a spreadsheet. May as well.
    Kudos for collecting some hard data.  I've done the same thing for the four AWR games I just played: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1K4ITAgZXf_EzXY8NVAJjYuYvhEAGPmR4sdyrzqE9_e8

    So far I've been getting the result that I was expecting - I'm getting more cascades than the AI.  But more samples are needed for any kind of solid conclusion, so I've made my sheet open for anyone to add data to, and added the convenience of automatic per-game and total stats.  You're of course welcome to add your data if you'd like (if you're counting matches the same way).

    It seems likely that a player's matching style would play a big part in the results.  In my case, these were coalition event games in which I was matching carefully, and I generally try to choose a match which both maximises my own cascades *and* denies AI cascades, where possible.

    This is getting decidedly unranty, so I've also forked off a new thread if anyone wants to discuss stats tracking for cascades further: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/73281/counting-cascades
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quantius said:
    Making a spreadsheet. May as well.
    I
     am really surprised you actually did that! It may be a small sample size, but I saw your other thread and it directly led to some interesting findings, motivating me to rethink my gem matching strategy.
  • Quantius
    Quantius Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    As salty as I was about the losses, documenting what was going on would at least let me see if there were any patterns or my experience was indeed different from others. It's easy to fall into an egocentric trap where you believe everyone plays and approaches things like you do, so I wanted to look past my own view.

    Frustration led to something productive at least, so thanks for the suggestion to lay it out in a sheet, it helped.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    Anyone else's event scores not matching their coalition scores?  Me and my crew are only getting ~75% of our earned scores counting on the coalition board. 
  • Unknown
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  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    FindingHeart8 said:
    Anyone else's event scores not matching their coalition scores?  Me and my crew are only getting ~75% of our earned scores counting on the coalition board. 
    Yep. It’s across ixalan. ;)

    The 2.x nodes are giving 10+bonuses for personal progression and only 5+bonuses for team scores. 
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    ElfNeedsFood said:
    FindingHeart8 said:
    Anyone else's event scores not matching their coalition scores?  Me and my crew are only getting ~75% of our earned scores counting on the coalition board. 
    Yep. It’s across ixalan. ;)

    The 2.x nodes are giving 10+bonuses for personal progression and only 5+bonuses for team scores. 
    well that's confusing.  Who is driving this car these days?  I don't know where we are going lol
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    I'm salty that there's not more tiers after platinum.  More tiers would make it so beginners don't get overwhelmed once they reach platinum.  I posted this suggestion in a different thread as an example for an extra tier system, obviously we wouldn't want this many tiers...but a few more would be nice! (Note: I didn't know what to name each tier outside of the ones we had, so...improvising).

    Tiers:
    1) Look I found this thing in the woods, I think it might be metal, or it could be a rock.
    2) Yup...it was a rock.
    3) I'm pretty sure what I have is metal, but it only is solid if I keep it out of the rain.
    4) Nope, it was tin all along
    5) Well-crafted tin.
    6) Unrefined copper
    7) Bronze
    8) Rusty Silver
    9) Silver
    10) Fools Gold
    11) Actual Gold...I think
    12) Nope still Fools Gold
    13) Gold
    14) Waiting in the V.I.P. line thinking you're platinum.
    15) Finding out you weren't on this list...
    16) ...yet
    17) Waiting in the V.I.P line, you know you're a platinum player for sure this time!
    18) Roll a d20 to see if you're a platinum player, you know you're gonna get a 20!
    19) You got a 7, close enough!
    20) Platinum
    21) Sapphire
    22) Ruby
    23) Plot twist: Ruby and Sapphire are the same mineral, but you're a smarter person for knowing it!
    24) Enlightened Corundum
    25) Diamond
    26) Better than Diamond
    27) Super shiny rock thingy
    28) Unobtanium
    29) Moondust
    30) Star sparkles
    31) The Sun
    32) A galaxy
    33) The Universe
    34) The Universe Supreme
    35) The Universe Supreme with fries and a shake
    36) The Multiverse
    37) Chairperson of Octagon's Board
  • Quantius
    Quantius Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    I dunno, I think Moondust should be below Unobtanium. And above Chairperson of Octagon's Board should be the true final tier: "Never gets a dupe."
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quantius said:
    I dunno, I think Moondust should be below Unobtanium. And above Chairperson of Octagon's Board should be the true final tier: "Never gets a dupe."
    are you saying you think we could find Unobtanium on the moon?  Moon jewels
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    We survived the MTGpocalypse :)

    at least round 1, don't know what the future holds

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