It’s a Strange Sight Tapping Event.

The rockett

Nick441234 said:

OJSP said:

Nick441234 said:

When I do 7 clears of each sub, I finish top 10 without fail. When that stops being the case, then tapping is a problem. 

What CL are you playing at? Do you prejoin brackets or join later ones? Do you share brackets with tappers? Perhaps you simply haven’t joined one where at least 10 had to tap to maintain t10 (like my last Unstable Iso-8 bracket). It was quite amusing to finish the 4 clears 8th and dropping down to 15th for the sub despite playing optimally. I finished almost 100 pts behind 10th.

I'm in CL7 and I join 5 hours or so after the event starts. If people want to avoid anyone tapping, simply do the same. Tappers clearly aren't a problem outside of the first 1000 players in each CL, so that would suggest they aren't that big of a problem. Most  of the higher CL's flip at least 4 or 5 times during an event. 

That’s the thing.  Tapping is big time in 9 amd some in 8.  I am always Slice 1.9.2 (which is 2nd flip). I can tell you the slice 1 SL9 flips 4 or 5 Times the first sub.  Total event I am not sure.  The reason why tapping is so big is due to the LT prize.  As @BoyWonder1914 said, and THANK YOU for the support, Tapping was always around and some did it.  Now with SL9 it has escalated quickly.  

Just this event, 1.9.2 Door 2 somebody tapped the 4* node 117 Times.  They sat and hit this node for almost 2 hours for 3 points each.   Does this seem normal? Does this seem intended?  Is this what D3/Demi want?  

Spudgutter

LifeofAgony said:

It impacts much more than 150 people.  If I follow nick plan and drop to cl7, I cost my ally optimal points by not starting at pre-join and dropping CL which is less points overall.  It may affect 150 people individually who compete for top placements in a given bracket, but the net effect is much broader reaching.

I dont think that is a particularly fair assessment. If you choose to go to a lower slice, that decision is yours to make.  How that impacts your alliance is on you, i would think.  You have to decide between personal placement versus alliance placement.  

To make it even broader, pve has always been about timing.  I have never tried for, or achieved, top 10, because the start and end times don't coincide very well with my life.  I accepted that when i first started playing, when there were 3 hour refreshes and rubber banding.  Nothing has really changed here, in the grand scheme.  Those that have the time and inclination place at the top.  That's how it should be.  Can it be unhealthy, and need to be addressed?  Absolutely.  But you will always have people that go the extra mile.

Heck, its kind of why i can understand wins based pvp, even though it would hurt me personally.  If someone wants to play the game more to get more rewards, then they should get that, imo.

LifeofAgony

We all come back to the original point - 10 months ago, March of 2017 was when we got OFFICIAL word from our community manager saying tapping is not how they want the game played and think it’s unhealthy.  As rockett stated, with the introduction of cl9 and LTs in the placement rewards, tapping became more pervasive, not less.

We’re still trying to get any acknowledgement or anything to help out since this was identified as a problem and is now even more prevalent.

And yes, it’s a personal choice to drop CL but it’s now become a choice of do I want to be supportive to my ally and put up as big a score as possible sans tapping, or drop cL to try for better personal placements.

Spudgutter

The rockett said:

Just this event, 1.9.2 Door 2 somebody tapped the 4* node 117 Times.  They sat and hit this node for almost 2 hours for 3 points each.   Does this seem normal? Does this seem intended?  Is this what D3/Demi want?  

Maybe its not normal (i agree, it isn't) but isnt that the point of competition? Those that put in the extra effort get the top rewards?  When they announced the points change almost a year ago now, they specifically mentioned that they didnt want people tapping the EASY node over and over. They left the points a little higher on the harder nodes, to separate out people even more. 

How else would you be able to award the top?  By speed?  Start and finish time?  No matter what, someone is going to have an edge, no matter how you try to equalize it.  In fact, having the time and ability to repeatedly tap could be argued as the great equalizer, because anyone can do it.  Dont have the 5* essential well covered?  Here ya go, an opportunity to level the playing field. And so on down the line.

BoyWonder1914

broll said:

I think global warming is a major problem.  I want to help.  I'll pollute as much as possible and encourage all my friends and family to pollute as much as possible so the government will finally take notice.  

That's not helping...  

False equivalency. Rockett never "encouraged" anyone to tap. He gave advice on how to combat it IF it happened to be something that affected you personally, and IF you wanted to do something about it. Not everyone who is affected by tapping cares enough to start tapping themselves, myself included. So if it DOESN'T affect you personally, you can ignore the thread and go about your life. But don't accuse the man of propagating something that was going to exist whether he called attention to it or not. If  you want someone to take it up with, take it up with the Devs for not putting proper countermeasures in place, or better yet for partially encouraging it since they made the change to have nodes ALWAYS be of a certain point value no matter how many times you clear it. 

Spudgutter

LifeofAgony said:

We all come back to the original point - 10 months ago, March of 2017 was when we got OFFICIAL word from our community manager saying tapping is not how they want the game played and think it’s unhealthy.  As rockett stated, with the introduction of cl9 and LTs in the placement rewards, tapping became more pervasive, not less.

We’re still trying to get any acknowledgement or anything to help out since this was identified as a problem and is now even more prevalent.

And yes, it’s a personal choice to drop CL but it’s now become a choice of do I want to be supportive to my ally and put up as big a score as possible sans tapping, or drop cL to try for better personal placements.

I just mentioned above, actually, that they said they didnt want people people tapping the easy node.

Lol i would argue that their silence on this issue should be our answer, but we both know that the communication from them is so poor that they could overhaul pve tomorrow and we would never know it was coming.  

I'm not saying it shouldn't be addressed.  I'm just arguing we shouldn't be encouraging bad behavior that we disagree with.  Two wrongs not making a right and all.

Ruinate

Nick441234 said:

When I do 7 clears of each sub, I finish top 10 without fail. When that stops being the case, then tapping is a problem. 

There's something you dont know about this game.  It's actually very difficult to put yourself into somebody else' shoes.  What you see and what somebody else sees is going to be very different depending on the tier that you play at.  There was a time when noobs thought vets were bad at pve because they weren't seeing the overscaled nodes that vets were seeing.  That said, with your recent posts such as "Just close the app" and this one, it's obvious you don't play at the upper level.  Your overly simplified solutions just makes you look like you have narrow vision.

Tapping isn't a problem until YOU fall out of t10?  DEAR LORD.  Cl7 professional over here's got all the answers that no one else has thought of.

BoyWonder1914

Spudgutter said:

There are two separate issues here.  Should the door bug be mentioned, addressed and resolved? Totally. But arguing the severity on the forum is really one of the reasons it exists, dont you think?


As for the tapping, how many people does it impact?  Less than 150?  That seems a fair number. In that case, does it warrant a thread EVERY pve?  What if someone created a thread before every pvp asking for wins based to come back, would you defend those threads as well?  What about if i created a thread asking for vaulting to come back everytime i noticed a new vault in the game?  I'm not saying those threads shouldn't exist, btw, I'm just saying that whomever creates them better be prepared to debate the validity of whatever they claim.  Just like i feel they should be allowed to post, i feel we should be allowed to post our disagreement. 

Arguing the severity of it on the forum is one of the reasons it exists? Not seeing the logic there, you're gonna have to explain that one further. 

Less than 150? Where are you getting that number? I have no basis to go off of myself so I'm just curious where these numbers get thrown around. Does every one need a thread? Who am I to say? My own perception of how serious the issue doesn't change how serious the issue may be to someone else. As far as I'm concerned, if people feel that the thread is helping them understand the issue and/or the game better, I'm not seeing where it's harmful. And to address your wins-based analogy, I have no right to tell people that their complaints aren't valid if they want the system back. Whether I agree or not, it matters enough to someone to make a thread. I don't HAVE to open the thread or comment. I don't HAVE to voice my disagreement EVERY single time. 

broll

BoyWonder1914 said:

broll said:

I think global warming is a major problem.  I want to help.  I'll pollute as much as possible and encourage all my friends and family to pollute as much as possible so the government will finally take notice.  

That's not helping...  

False equivalency. Rockett never "encouraged" anyone to tap. He gave advice on how to combat it IF it happened to be something that affected you personally, and IF you wanted to do something about it. Not everyone who is affected by tapping cares enough to start tapping themselves, myself included. So if it DOESN'T affect you personally, you can ignore the thread and go about your life. But don't accuse the man of propagating something that was going to exist whether he called attention to it or not. If  you want someone to take it up with, take it up with the Devs for not putting proper countermeasures in place, or better yet for partially encouraging it since they made the change to have nodes ALWAYS be of a certain point value no matter how many times you clear it. 

Really?

The rockett said:

As the other tapping threads have gotten a lot of feed back, the event just so happens to fall in our laps at the right time, oh and look what 5* is boosted this event.  THANOS!!!!!!  This is the perfect event to become a tapper on, and this is how to do it.

Source: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/69284/deadpool-vs-mpq-pve-the-tapping-pve-event/p1
Underlining added for emphasis.

Nick441234

OJSP said:

Nick441234 said:

I'm in CL7 and I join 5 hours or so after the event starts. If people want to avoid anyone tapping, simply do the same. Tappers clearly aren't a problem outside of the first 1000 players in each CL, so that would suggest they aren't that big of a problem. Most  of the higher CL's flip at least 4 or 5 times during an event. 

Well you can’t really comment on CL 8 or 9 then.

S3.9 flips twice or 3 times per event. The prejoin one flips a few minutes after it starts, the second one probably not until near the end of the event. There are probably about 20 players who are willing to tap, they might split themselves into the 2 brackets if we’re lucky

Play a different bracket. You dont have to play optimally in busier brackets and you'll still hit top 10. I dont, I just do 7 clears over 24 hours and top 10 is in the bag. 

Nick441234

LifeofAgony said:

It impacts much more than 150 people.  If I follow nick plan and drop to cl7, I cost my ally optimal points by not starting at pre-join and dropping CL which is less points overall.  It may affect 150 people individually who compete for top placements in a given bracket, but the net effect is much broader reaching.

I would find a different alliance then if the optimal points are that important. Your own placement should come first. I'm sitting on 83,843 points in 8th place currently on Strange Sights. I will finish around about that position by simply clearing each node 3 more times between now and 12pm tomorrow. Other people will sit there grinding away 3 point nodes like their life depends on it. I know I wouldn't swap my top 10 finish for theirs. 

LifeofAgony

To quote from brigby from 3/28/2017

Hey Everyone,

We’ve recently noticed some players have been repeatedly playing missions (upwards of 1,000 times!) in order to gain higher placements in Events. While this immense amount of dedication is certainly impressive, we feel that this just isn’t a healthy way to play the game, and it isn’t fair to players who don’t want to grind trivially easy missions for a significant amount of time.

Trivially easy is ambiguous and can mean any node deemed easy (a triple goon node for example).

Those are their words.  Tapping isn’t healthy and they don’t think it fair.  So we continue to attempt to bring attention back to this as it still has not been solved.

Nick441234

Ruinate said:

Nick441234 said:

When I do 7 clears of each sub, I finish top 10 without fail. When that stops being the case, then tapping is a problem. 

There's something you dont know about this game.  It's actually very difficult to put yourself into somebody else' shoes.  What you see and what somebody else sees is going to be very different depending on the tier that you play at.  There was a time when noobs thought vets were bad at pve because they weren't seeing the overscaled nodes that vets were seeing.  That said, with your recent posts such as "Just close the app" and this one, it's obvious you don't play at the upper level.  Your overly simplified solutions just makes you look like you have narrow vision.

Tapping isn't a problem until YOU fall out of t10?  DEAR LORD.  Cl7 professional over here's got all the answers that no one else has thought of.

I used to play in 8 actually (at the time when it was the highest level). I then realised, whats the point? I can get top 10 playing in 7, so why bother playing 8?

And yes, closing the app will stop you accidentally selling characters in your roster so my advice is the answer to the problem. 

BoyWonder1914

broll said:

BoyWonder1914 said:

broll said:

I think global warming is a major problem.  I want to help.  I'll pollute as much as possible and encourage all my friends and family to pollute as much as possible so the government will finally take notice.  

That's not helping...  

False equivalency. Rockett never "encouraged" anyone to tap. He gave advice on how to combat it IF it happened to be something that affected you personally, and IF you wanted to do something about it. Not everyone who is affected by tapping cares enough to start tapping themselves, myself included. So if it DOESN'T affect you personally, you can ignore the thread and go about your life. But don't accuse the man of propagating something that was going to exist whether he called attention to it or not. If  you want someone to take it up with, take it up with the Devs for not putting proper countermeasures in place, or better yet for partially encouraging it since they made the change to have nodes ALWAYS be of a certain point value no matter how many times you clear it. 

Really?

The rockett said:

As the other tapping threads have gotten a lot of feed back, the event just so happens to fall in our laps at the right time, oh and look what 5* is boosted this event.  THANOS!!!!!!  This is the perfect event to become a tapper on, and this is how to do it.

Source: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/69284/deadpool-vs-mpq-pve-the-tapping-pve-event/p1
Underlining added for emphasis.

That's what you choose to focus on? You honestly think ONE GUY is responsible for a "problem" that you yourself for whatever reason put on the same scale as GLOBAL WARMING? You go out of you way to try to explain that the number of people affected by the Strange Bug doesn't constitute a "sky is falling" scenario, and then turn around and compare the amount of people affected by tapping with a phenomenon that affects every human being on the planet.....I just don't get it. The people who decided to take Rockett's advice were going to turn into tappers anyway, due to circumstances that Rockett had no control over. They didn't need to come to the forums to read a thread to realize that certain nodes were always going to be worth 2/3/4 points after the 7th clear. You're giving him WAY too much credit. Take EVERY person out of the game who ever read one his threads, and you think tapping would instantly end? I think not. 

Spudgutter

BoyWonder1914 said:

Spudgutter said:

There are two separate issues here.  Should the door bug be mentioned, addressed and resolved? Totally. But arguing the severity on the forum is really one of the reasons it exists, dont you think?


As for the tapping, how many people does it impact?  Less than 150?  That seems a fair number. In that case, does it warrant a thread EVERY pve?  What if someone created a thread before every pvp asking for wins based to come back, would you defend those threads as well?  What about if i created a thread asking for vaulting to come back everytime i noticed a new vault in the game?  I'm not saying those threads shouldn't exist, btw, I'm just saying that whomever creates them better be prepared to debate the validity of whatever they claim.  Just like i feel they should be allowed to post, i feel we should be allowed to post our disagreement. 

Arguing the severity of it on the forum is one of the reasons it exists? Not seeing the logic there, you're gonna have to explain that one further. 

Less than 150? Where are you getting that number? I have no basis to go off of myself so I'm just curious where these numbers get thrown around. Does every one need a thread? Who am I to say? My own perception of how serious the issue doesn't change how serious the issue may be to someone else. As far as I'm concerned, if people feel that the thread is helping them understand the issue and/or the game better, I'm not seeing where it's harmful. And to address your wins-based analogy, I have no right to tell people that their complaints aren't valid if they want the system back. Whether I agree or not, it matters enough to someone to make a thread. I don't HAVE to open the thread or comment. I don't HAVE to voice my disagreement EVERY single time. 

Arguing the severity, in regards to the forum, is that the forum is theoritically there for people to discuss the game.  The whole point of its existence, right?  Whether they are duscussing this or how many health packs they have, the forum is for people to talk about aspects of the game. There are even underutilized sub forums dedicated to specific things to try to separate topics.

I am pulling 150 from 5 slices, flipping several times each, with 2 or 3 tappers per slice.  That bounces 2 or 3 out of top ten, across 5 slices, with 5 flips.  3 times 5 times 5, and then i doubled it to be safe, to account for cl8 and cl9.  Some slices have more, some have less, feels like a solid number, but am open to seeing other guesstimates.

Making the thread for awareness, i agree with you.  But on more than one occasion he actively encouraged it, see the link provided above.  That's the part i disagree with.  From there, i would also argue one thread per week or season, constantly updated with each new pve with reports of tappers, will get a "like" from me, because i have nothing against the information being gathered.  It's the thread for every pve that i take issue with.

LifeofAgony said:

To quote from brigby from 3/28/2017

Hey Everyone,

We’ve recently noticed some players have been repeatedly playing missions (upwards of 1,000 times!) in order to gain higher placements in Events. While this immense amount of dedication is certainly impressive, we feel that this just isn’t a healthy way to play the game, and it isn’t fair to players who don’t want to grind trivially easy missions for a significant amount of time.

Trivially easy is ambiguous and can mean any node deemed easy (a triple goon node for example).

Those are their words.  Tapping isn’t healthy and they don’t think it fair.  So we continue to attempt to bring attention back to this as it still has not been solved.

On mobile, so please forgive me for not providing evidence like you were able. 

This is not the first time they have gone back on their word, is it?  They changed their stance on pvp, obviously, and most recently.  

Another instance, they made changes to defensive teams, to combat cupcakes.  Are you another of the rare few who were able to get to 1200-1300 without taking advantage of the practice? They  stated they werent a fan (again, sorry i cant find the link presently) and yet here we all are, benefiting from all the ships rising with the tide.

Lastly, and certainly not least, lets reach back to the introduction of CP.  I am very confident tbat the initial post said that you would not be able to purchase it with money.  And yet, look at the buy clubs recently after digital sale. They sure werent stocking up in hp, waiting on a roster slot sale.

The point is, they are a human company, filled with humans.  They are allowed to change their stance and minds as they see fit.  10 months later and we still have not seen another change.  And we may not.  Or we will, who the heck knows?

LifeofAgony

No one said they don’t go back on their words, but that was the last official comment from the overlords.  Until they state otherwise, that is their official stance.

0_efx_0

What is tapping?

Spudgutter

OJSP said:

Spudgutter said:

I am pulling 150 from 5 slices, flipping several times each, with 2 or 3 tappers per slice.  That bounces 2 or 3 out of top ten, across 5 slices, with 5 flips.  3 times 5 times 5, and then i doubled it to be safe, to account for cl8 and cl9.  Some slices have more, some have less, feels like a solid number, but am open to seeing other guesstimates.

Check the spreadsheet: tinyurl.com/mpqbracket if you want a more accurate number of flips. But I think your estimation is not that far off, maybe slightly on the lower side.

(Like I mentioned before, S3.9 would rarely have more than 2 flips. That practically condenses the tappers into one bracket and we have more than 20 players who play in the slice who are willing to tap if they could get t5 or to ensure t10). 

Honestly never scrolled over to the right before, just always looked at the player count lol.

With that in mind, looking at it even farther away, i think it is lower.  Realistically, if someone has the two hours at the end to tap, they could play optimally, correct?  They are playing at sub end already, if they just timed it properly, they could place top ten just on timing and roster strength alone.  So basically, several tappers (not all) already have a pretty good shot at top 10, they are just tapping to guarantee top 2, 5 or 10.  So if they are already in that wheelhouse, it isnt really fair to count them against the number negatively impacted, since they would have gotten top 10 anyways.  Ironically, taking tapping away would put their top 10 placement at risk!

The rockett

Spudgutter said:

OJSP said:

Spudgutter said:

I am pulling 150 from 5 slices, flipping several times each, with 2 or 3 tappers per slice.  That bounces 2 or 3 out of top ten, across 5 slices, with 5 flips.  3 times 5 times 5, and then i doubled it to be safe, to account for cl8 and cl9.  Some slices have more, some have less, feels like a solid number, but am open to seeing other guesstimates.

Check the spreadsheet: tinyurl.com/mpqbracket if you want a more accurate number of flips. But I think your estimation is not that far off, maybe slightly on the lower side.

(Like I mentioned before, S3.9 would rarely have more than 2 flips. That practically condenses the tappers into one bracket and we have more than 20 players who play in the slice who are willing to tap if they could get t5 or to ensure t10). 

Honestly never scrolled over to the right before, just always looked at the player count lol.

With that in mind, looking at it even farther away, i think it is lower.  Realistically, if someone has the two hours at the end to tap, they could play optimally, correct?  They are playing at sub end already, if they just timed it properly, they could place top ten just on timing and roster strength alone.  So basically, several tappers (not all) already have a pretty good shot at top 10, they are just tapping to guarantee top 2, 5 or 10.  So if they are already in that wheelhouse, it isnt really fair to count them against the number negatively impacted, since they would have gotten top 10 anyways.  Ironically, taking tapping away would put their top 10 placement at risk!

6-10 in SL 9 doesn’t get you an LT. It’s all about the LT 

Spudgutter

The rockett said:

Spudgutter said:

OJSP said:

Spudgutter said:

I am pulling 150 from 5 slices, flipping several times each, with 2 or 3 tappers per slice.  That bounces 2 or 3 out of top ten, across 5 slices, with 5 flips.  3 times 5 times 5, and then i doubled it to be safe, to account for cl8 and cl9.  Some slices have more, some have less, feels like a solid number, but am open to seeing other guesstimates.

Check the spreadsheet: tinyurl.com/mpqbracket if you want a more accurate number of flips. But I think your estimation is not that far off, maybe slightly on the lower side.

(Like I mentioned before, S3.9 would rarely have more than 2 flips. That practically condenses the tappers into one bracket and we have more than 20 players who play in the slice who are willing to tap if they could get t5 or to ensure t10). 

Honestly never scrolled over to the right before, just always looked at the player count lol.

With that in mind, looking at it even farther away, i think it is lower.  Realistically, if someone has the two hours at the end to tap, they could play optimally, correct?  They are playing at sub end already, if they just timed it properly, they could place top ten just on timing and roster strength alone.  So basically, several tappers (not all) already have a pretty good shot at top 10, they are just tapping to guarantee top 2, 5 or 10.  So if they are already in that wheelhouse, it isnt really fair to count them against the number negatively impacted, since they would have gotten top 10 anyways.  Ironically, taking tapping away would put their top 10 placement at risk!

6-10 in SL 9 doesn’t get you an LT. It’s all about the LT 

Ok, if you want to restict the discussion down to just those people then the number impacted is in the low teens.  I was just trying to be objective about how many people, in total, have their placement impacted by tapping.