S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Level Maximum S.H.I.E.L.D. Ranks

jamesh

Phumade said:

jamesh said:

My shield rank is still steadily increasing, but my highest level characters are mostly staying where they are.  Instead I'm just bringing more characters up to a similar level, which doesn't necessarily help me fight harder enemies.

Actually,  I don't think you really understand how important this actually is, "Instead I'm just bringing more characters up to a similar level" Having a wide flexibile roster is usually the key to unlocking the best pve nodes in the most efficient manner.  Its just as important in pvp when you can run counter teams and rotate a 1a, 1b, 1c 1d combo teams.

At the higher tiers of play, the game really revolves into countering teams.  Chars are fairly specialized now, and you definitely counter more effectively with a wide roster.

I fully understand that it is improving my roster, but it's a case of diminishing returns.  When I champed my first three 4* characters, that made a huge difference to the strength of my roster.  But I'm generating the same experience on my 20th champ as  those first 3 (at least I would if I champed them all after the recent change).  It does help in the sense that I am more likely to have a boosted character champed, and have more options for team composition, but it doesn't really compare to those original 3.

While you do need an increasing amount of experience for each shield rank, it doesn't really keep up with this.  Throw in experience gains from 1* and 2* farming, and it gets even less representative.

I've mentioned it before, but we know they already had a system in place for measuring roster strength back before clearance level based scaling.  I think I'd prefer if they just exposed that number and used it to determine which clearance levels you could access (but still make a range available: the "choose your difficulty and prizes" aspect of the current system is great).

They could keep the shield rank around as a way to reward regular play, augmenting the daily supply drop.

The rockett

So if this is for PVE too and you don't have the 5* E, you cannot drop down to SL6 and still play the event to rank well.  You will be forced to play 7-9 and get a bad rank overall because you don't have the required char.  This doesn't see right.  

Wumpushunter

Lets repeat this simple fact, shield rank is not indicative of a healthy roster. Lets repeat it over and over. Some people with 80 shield rank has a far less developed roster than someone with a shield rank of 67. This is a really bad idea.

Quebbster

mexus said:

I don't totally get what people are upset about (am I supposed to be upset?). I'm at work and can't read the lot, 
please make a short version for me.

SCL levels 1-6 will now have a maximum allowed SHIELD level. You won't be able to slum in easy SCLs anymore.

DrStrangelov3

mexus said:

Quebbster said:

mexus said:

I don't totally get what people are upset about (am I supposed to be upset?). I'm at work and can't read the lot, 
please make a short version for me.

SCL levels 1-6 will now have a maximum allowed SHIELD level. You won't be able to slum in easy SCLs anymore.

Ah, OK. That's a bit poopy of course, especially since many many many rank 68 players don't have a single 5* cover (me myself is rank 108 and missing like 6 from the classic 5* characters). 

I think the player should be able to play in CL6 even if he doesn't meet the level requirements as long as he / she doesn't have the required 5* for CL7+.

It isn't just slumming of advanced rosters, A lot of lower level players are going to be forced into SCL 6+7 while not even having the required 4*.  Right now, my roster is going to be forced to play in SCL 5 and I literally have 1 4* cover. Not even taking placement into consideration, just finishing the event is going to be a huge slog as my characters are not even close to the appropriate level to defeat nodes in the higher SCLs. 

Nick441234

The rockett said:

So if this is for PVE too and you don't have the 5* E, you cannot drop down to SL6 and still play the event to rank well.  You will be forced to play 7-9 and get a bad rank overall because you don't have the required char.  This doesn't see right.  

Yes it does. If your roster is good enough to beat the 5* node in CL7 (if you had the 5*) then your roster is too good for CL6 so you should not be in there taking rewards away from people who do belong in there. Not having the 5* shouldn't mean you drop down to CL6. Just accept that you will only play for progression in that event.

broll

jamesh said:

aesthetocyst said:

What's that you say? 5E nodes are only worth trivial points?

Well, even in DPvsMPQ, the shortest, cheapest event around, those two 5E nodes add up to more than 5% of points possible.

Good luck, kids!

Note that DPvMPQ did not seem to have had the points of the 5* essential node adjusted.  Now we're back to it being worth less than the first easy node.  Not having the 5* is going to hurt if you're going for ultra high placement, but you should be able to compete for top 50 while missing the character.

I think the bigger problem with this change is that shield rank is still a bad measure of roster strength.  My shield rank is still steadily increasing, but my highest level characters are mostly staying where they are.  Instead I'm just bringing more characters up to a similar level, which doesn't necessarily help me fight harder enemies.

That’s because they left in dup leveling for XP. That should have been removed when they did the rework. It’s  a dumb change (unless they are trying to find a way to nerf 2* farming and if that’s it they are wayyy too late)

DeNappa

I think this is a bad thing. If you want to take an event easy and go for some fast progression prizes anyway by beating squishy teams in lower clearance level, this is not possible anymore. 

News flash: most people dropping to SCL's lower than 7 don't drop to lower than that because of they want the placement rewards. (Except maybe on new character releases? I don't know if they reward with new 4* covers in lower clearance levels tbh). 

madoctor

Another anti hoarding move in the all out war against hoarders. The devs want you spending that CP, so I guess you have to. Only saving grace is that the CL7 5essential is worth dirt.

The SR maximums (and minimums for that matter) are ridiculous in the first place. Rank 32 minimum for CL7? Those numbers make no sense. Make the number more reasonable and it's understandable.

Also why is it that release events have almost similar rewards from CL6 to CL8 (even CL9 has very stingy release rewards). Make the 7/8/9 release rewards more reasonable and people would stop going down in release events

DAZ0273

Whilst I understand some of the logic to this to stop slumming, once again there seems to be a wide variance on expectation of roster strength. There are 5 tiers of play covering 9 SCL and I would assume that they breakdown roughly as follows:

Beginners/early middle range

SCL1 - 1* players
SCL2 - 2* Players/2* transition (if there is really such a thing, you go straight to 2* after a week or so)
SCL3 - Champed 2* players (have probably finished Prologue)

Middle range players

SCL4/5 - 3 star players

Experienced but still higher middle/lower upper range

SCL5/SCL6 - Champed 3* players/Transition to 4* tier (could possibly play SCL7 also)
SCL7 - 4* players/5* low end players (could possibly play SCL8 also)

VET Brackets - upper range and dominant players

SCL8 - Some high level/champed 5* players/majority number of champed 4* players (may struggle with 5*E)
SCL9 - Champed 5* players

Obviously you can re-arrange if you think that is wildly off but I don't think it is too far away. Now if you line that up against the SR levels required for some levels, it doesn't make sense in the slightest.

jamesh

broll said:

jamesh said:

aesthetocyst said:

What's that you say? 5E nodes are only worth trivial points?

Well, even in DPvsMPQ, the shortest, cheapest event around, those two 5E nodes add up to more than 5% of points possible.

Good luck, kids!

Note that DPvMPQ did not seem to have had the points of the 5* essential node adjusted.  Now we're back to it being worth less than the first easy node.  Not having the 5* is going to hurt if you're going for ultra high placement, but you should be able to compete for top 50 while missing the character.

I think the bigger problem with this change is that shield rank is still a bad measure of roster strength.  My shield rank is still steadily increasing, but my highest level characters are mostly staying where they are.  Instead I'm just bringing more characters up to a similar level, which doesn't necessarily help me fight harder enemies.

That’s because they left in dup leveling for XP. That should have been removed when they did the rework. It’s  a dumb change (unless they are trying to find a way to nerf 2* farming and if that’s it they are wayyy too late)

Right.  I mentioned that in my followup post: an experience system like this is almost guaranteed to be a bad reflection of roster strength.  So why not actually base it on a measure of roster strength directly rather than indirectly through an experience/levelling system?

broll

jamesh said:

broll said:

jamesh said:

aesthetocyst said:

What's that you say? 5E nodes are only worth trivial points?

Well, even in DPvsMPQ, the shortest, cheapest event around, those two 5E nodes add up to more than 5% of points possible.

Good luck, kids!

Note that DPvMPQ did not seem to have had the points of the 5* essential node adjusted.  Now we're back to it being worth less than the first easy node.  Not having the 5* is going to hurt if you're going for ultra high placement, but you should be able to compete for top 50 while missing the character.

I think the bigger problem with this change is that shield rank is still a bad measure of roster strength.  My shield rank is still steadily increasing, but my highest level characters are mostly staying where they are.  Instead I'm just bringing more characters up to a similar level, which doesn't necessarily help me fight harder enemies.

That’s because they left in dup leveling for XP. That should have been removed when they did the rework. It’s  a dumb change (unless they are trying to find a way to nerf 2* farming and if that’s it they are wayyy too late)

Right.  I mentioned that in my followup post: an experience system like this is almost guaranteed to be a bad reflection of roster strength.  So why not actually base it on a measure of roster strength directly rather than indirectly through an experience/levelling system?

Yup me too.  Heck, I mentioned it when they first introduced SRs.  They could have saved a lot of headaches doing it right the first time...

Bowgentle

aesthetocyst said:

Wumpushunter said:

Daiches said:

We used to go against level 395 Maggia Goons with level 94 Stormneto back when community scaling still existed. And won. repeatedly.. with 3h refreshes.
#GetOffMyLawn

Now do it with non goons. I can kill 5 nodes of goons 6 times without taking a single point of damage. Take on 395 dark avengers with level 94 stormento and see what happens to you.

We did, often. It wasn't fun, but we were kids.

After much complaining, "tile mover" scaling was capped at 'only' 319 (or was it 315? 316?).

Oh, and did Daiches mention that this was before the R91 / champing rebalance, when lower rarities scaled insanely?

Yeah, those DAs, they're all 1s and 2s. It was greeeeeeeat.

It really didn't last that long, a few months.

Yeah they removed the 395 limit just as mortals were getting 5s to a useable level, and introduced uncapped personal roster based scaling.

I still have nightmares.

Now we're back at 400 level enemies, after all this time, and they're a breeze.

Beer40

Nick441234 said:

The rockett said:

So if this is for PVE too and you don't have the 5* E, you cannot drop down to SL6 and still play the event to rank well.  You will be forced to play 7-9 and get a bad rank overall because you don't have the required char.  This doesn't see right.  

Yes it does. If your roster is good enough to beat the 5* node in CL7 (if you had the 5*) then your roster is too good for CL6 so you should not be in there taking rewards away from people who do belong in there. Not having the 5* shouldn't mean you drop down to CL6. Just accept that you will only play for progression in that event.

This is probably the stupidest thing I've seen on the Forum and that's saying something. We now have rewards entitlement???

Most people playing down are doing it for a quality of life purpose. We are losing out on better progression rewards to have more free time. The placement rewards aren't offsetting that.

Let me give you an example of your comment in reverse so you can see the ridiculousness of it: Should a SR 70 player be able to come up to SCL 8 and take MY rewards because they can start optimally, end optimally, and are willing to do one extra clear per node (that doesn't give rewards)? Their roster doesn't belong in SCL 8. Get out! Quit taking MY rewards.  

That's called entitlement.

I have every right to drop down to SCL 6. If I were to play an entire event optimally (I haven't done one like that in nearly 2 years) and my roster is fast enough then I deserve the placement rewards, regardless of anything else. Period. 

If I want to drop down to SCL 6 to play my standard non-optimal style just so I can get in and out of the game quicker then that should be my right. If, in playing sub-optimally, I happen to "take away" "your" placement then too bad. Its not like you couldn't play the "right way" and beat me. 

So yea, I'm not going to directly tell you people complaining about rosters dropping down what you can do or where you can go, but I hope you figure it out for yourselves. Clearly, some of you won't.

Nick441234

Beer40 said:

Nick441234 said:

The rockett said:

So if this is for PVE too and you don't have the 5* E, you cannot drop down to SL6 and still play the event to rank well.  You will be forced to play 7-9 and get a bad rank overall because you don't have the required char.  This doesn't see right.  

Yes it does. If your roster is good enough to beat the 5* node in CL7 (if you had the 5*) then your roster is too good for CL6 so you should not be in there taking rewards away from people who do belong in there. Not having the 5* shouldn't mean you drop down to CL6. Just accept that you will only play for progression in that event.

This is probably the stupidest thing I've seen on the Forum and that's saying something. We now have rewards entitlement???

Most people playing down are doing it for a quality of life purpose. We are losing out on better progression rewards to have more free time. The placement rewards aren't offsetting that.

Let me give you an example of your comment in reverse so you can see the ridiculousness of it: Should a SR 70 player be able to come up to SCL 8 and take MY rewards because they can start optimally, end optimally, and are willing to do one extra clear per node (that doesn't give rewards)? Their roster doesn't belong in SCL 8. Get out! Quit taking MY rewards.  

That's called entitlement.

I have every right to drop down to SCL 6. If I were to play an entire event optimally (I haven't done one like that in nearly 2 years) and my roster is fast enough then I deserve the placement rewards, regardless of anything else. Period. 

If I want to drop down to SCL 6 to play my standard non-optimal style just so I can get in and out of the game quicker then that should be my right. If, in playing sub-optimally, I happen to "take away" "your" placement then too bad. Its not like you couldn't play the "right way" and beat me. 

So yea, I'm not going to directly tell you people complaining about rosters dropping down what you can do or where you can go, but I hope you figure it out for yourselves. Clearly, some of you won't.

Clearly D3 agree with me, hence the restrictions being put in. I guess you'll just have to deal with it. 

Just because its quicker for you to do clears by joining CL6, doesn't make it fair. You still have no right being in that level. Clearly CL8 is your level, and you should remain in there. 

broll

Nick441234 said:

Beer40 said:

Nick441234 said:

The rockett said:

So if this is for PVE too and you don't have the 5* E, you cannot drop down to SL6 and still play the event to rank well.  You will be forced to play 7-9 and get a bad rank overall because you don't have the required char.  This doesn't see right.  

Yes it does. If your roster is good enough to beat the 5* node in CL7 (if you had the 5*) then your roster is too good for CL6 so you should not be in there taking rewards away from people who do belong in there. Not having the 5* shouldn't mean you drop down to CL6. Just accept that you will only play for progression in that event.

This is probably the stupidest thing I've seen on the Forum and that's saying something. We now have rewards entitlement???

Most people playing down are doing it for a quality of life purpose. We are losing out on better progression rewards to have more free time. The placement rewards aren't offsetting that.

Let me give you an example of your comment in reverse so you can see the ridiculousness of it: Should a SR 70 player be able to come up to SCL 8 and take MY rewards because they can start optimally, end optimally, and are willing to do one extra clear per node (that doesn't give rewards)? Their roster doesn't belong in SCL 8. Get out! Quit taking MY rewards.  

That's called entitlement.

I have every right to drop down to SCL 6. If I were to play an entire event optimally (I haven't done one like that in nearly 2 years) and my roster is fast enough then I deserve the placement rewards, regardless of anything else. Period. 

If I want to drop down to SCL 6 to play my standard non-optimal style just so I can get in and out of the game quicker then that should be my right. If, in playing sub-optimally, I happen to "take away" "your" placement then too bad. Its not like you couldn't play the "right way" and beat me. 

So yea, I'm not going to directly tell you people complaining about rosters dropping down what you can do or where you can go, but I hope you figure it out for yourselves. Clearly, some of you won't.

Clearly D3 agree with me, hence the restrictions being put in. I guess you'll just have to deal with it. 

Just because its quicker for you to do clears by joining CL6, doesn't make it fair. You still have no right being in that level. Clearly CL8 is your level, and you should remain in there. 

Yeah, tell that to win based PvP or vaulting (any of the times).

If it proves to be as game breaking as I think it will be, it will get pulled or heavily modified.

Nick441234

broll said:

Nick441234 said:

Beer40 said:

Nick441234 said:

The rockett said:

So if this is for PVE too and you don't have the 5* E, you cannot drop down to SL6 and still play the event to rank well.  You will be forced to play 7-9 and get a bad rank overall because you don't have the required char.  This doesn't see right.  

Yes it does. If your roster is good enough to beat the 5* node in CL7 (if you had the 5*) then your roster is too good for CL6 so you should not be in there taking rewards away from people who do belong in there. Not having the 5* shouldn't mean you drop down to CL6. Just accept that you will only play for progression in that event.

This is probably the stupidest thing I've seen on the Forum and that's saying something. We now have rewards entitlement???

Most people playing down are doing it for a quality of life purpose. We are losing out on better progression rewards to have more free time. The placement rewards aren't offsetting that.

Let me give you an example of your comment in reverse so you can see the ridiculousness of it: Should a SR 70 player be able to come up to SCL 8 and take MY rewards because they can start optimally, end optimally, and are willing to do one extra clear per node (that doesn't give rewards)? Their roster doesn't belong in SCL 8. Get out! Quit taking MY rewards.  

That's called entitlement.

I have every right to drop down to SCL 6. If I were to play an entire event optimally (I haven't done one like that in nearly 2 years) and my roster is fast enough then I deserve the placement rewards, regardless of anything else. Period. 

If I want to drop down to SCL 6 to play my standard non-optimal style just so I can get in and out of the game quicker then that should be my right. If, in playing sub-optimally, I happen to "take away" "your" placement then too bad. Its not like you couldn't play the "right way" and beat me. 

So yea, I'm not going to directly tell you people complaining about rosters dropping down what you can do or where you can go, but I hope you figure it out for yourselves. Clearly, some of you won't.

Clearly D3 agree with me, hence the restrictions being put in. I guess you'll just have to deal with it. 

Just because its quicker for you to do clears by joining CL6, doesn't make it fair. You still have no right being in that level. Clearly CL8 is your level, and you should remain in there. 

Yeah, tell that to win based PvP or vaulting (any of the times).

If it proves to be as game breaking as I think it will be, it will get pulled or heavily modified.

Why on earth would it be game breaking though? Anyone who dropped down to CL6 to make their life a breeze, will just have to pick 7 instead. Its not going to make that much of a difference to how much they play. If that small difference is too much for them, then perhaps its time to call it quits on this game. 

broll

Nick441234 said:

broll said:

Nick441234 said:

Beer40 said:

Nick441234 said:

The rockett said:

So if this is for PVE too and you don't have the 5* E, you cannot drop down to SL6 and still play the event to rank well.  You will be forced to play 7-9 and get a bad rank overall because you don't have the required char.  This doesn't see right.  

Yes it does. If your roster is good enough to beat the 5* node in CL7 (if you had the 5*) then your roster is too good for CL6 so you should not be in there taking rewards away from people who do belong in there. Not having the 5* shouldn't mean you drop down to CL6. Just accept that you will only play for progression in that event.

This is probably the stupidest thing I've seen on the Forum and that's saying something. We now have rewards entitlement???

Most people playing down are doing it for a quality of life purpose. We are losing out on better progression rewards to have more free time. The placement rewards aren't offsetting that.

Let me give you an example of your comment in reverse so you can see the ridiculousness of it: Should a SR 70 player be able to come up to SCL 8 and take MY rewards because they can start optimally, end optimally, and are willing to do one extra clear per node (that doesn't give rewards)? Their roster doesn't belong in SCL 8. Get out! Quit taking MY rewards.  

That's called entitlement.

I have every right to drop down to SCL 6. If I were to play an entire event optimally (I haven't done one like that in nearly 2 years) and my roster is fast enough then I deserve the placement rewards, regardless of anything else. Period. 

If I want to drop down to SCL 6 to play my standard non-optimal style just so I can get in and out of the game quicker then that should be my right. If, in playing sub-optimally, I happen to "take away" "your" placement then too bad. Its not like you couldn't play the "right way" and beat me. 

So yea, I'm not going to directly tell you people complaining about rosters dropping down what you can do or where you can go, but I hope you figure it out for yourselves. Clearly, some of you won't.

Clearly D3 agree with me, hence the restrictions being put in. I guess you'll just have to deal with it. 

Just because its quicker for you to do clears by joining CL6, doesn't make it fair. You still have no right being in that level. Clearly CL8 is your level, and you should remain in there. 

Yeah, tell that to win based PvP or vaulting (any of the times).

If it proves to be as game breaking as I think it will be, it will get pulled or heavily modified.

Why on earth would it be game breaking though? Anyone who dropped down to CL6 to make their life a breeze, will just have to pick 7 instead. Its not going to make that much of a difference to how much they play. If that small difference is too much for them, then perhaps its time to call it quits on this game. 

Oh let me list the ways:
1.  I'm a casual player that never played anything but DDQ.  Doing this I opened lots of STs & ETs, but I rarely got anything higher than that and I got tons of XP (pre the XP change).  Now I'm level 65 and my highest characters are low level 3* champs...  (my alt account is exactly like this, 4 3* champs, only 1 rostered single-covered 4*, no 5*s...)
2.  I decided 5* land was terrible during roster based scaling or it ruined my PvP experience so I sold all my 5*s, now I'm locked in SCL 7 and my roster is struggling.
3.  I rage quit the game and deleted all my characters but one.  I decide I want to come back and now my 1 covered 1* IM is locked into SCL7...

I'm sure there's more but that's just off the top of my head...

Beer40

Nick441234 said:

Beer40 said:

Nick441234 said:

The rockett said:

So if this is for PVE too and you don't have the 5* E, you cannot drop down to SL6 and still play the event to rank well.  You will be forced to play 7-9 and get a bad rank overall because you don't have the required char.  This doesn't see right.  

Yes it does. If your roster is good enough to beat the 5* node in CL7 (if you had the 5*) then your roster is too good for CL6 so you should not be in there taking rewards away from people who do belong in there. Not having the 5* shouldn't mean you drop down to CL6. Just accept that you will only play for progression in that event.

This is probably the stupidest thing I've seen on the Forum and that's saying something. We now have rewards entitlement???

Most people playing down are doing it for a quality of life purpose. We are losing out on better progression rewards to have more free time. The placement rewards aren't offsetting that.

Let me give you an example of your comment in reverse so you can see the ridiculousness of it: Should a SR 70 player be able to come up to SCL 8 and take MY rewards because they can start optimally, end optimally, and are willing to do one extra clear per node (that doesn't give rewards)? Their roster doesn't belong in SCL 8. Get out! Quit taking MY rewards.  

That's called entitlement.

I have every right to drop down to SCL 6. If I were to play an entire event optimally (I haven't done one like that in nearly 2 years) and my roster is fast enough then I deserve the placement rewards, regardless of anything else. Period. 

If I want to drop down to SCL 6 to play my standard non-optimal style just so I can get in and out of the game quicker then that should be my right. If, in playing sub-optimally, I happen to "take away" "your" placement then too bad. Its not like you couldn't play the "right way" and beat me. 

So yea, I'm not going to directly tell you people complaining about rosters dropping down what you can do or where you can go, but I hope you figure it out for yourselves. Clearly, some of you won't.

Clearly D3 agree with me, hence the restrictions being put in. I guess you'll just have to deal with it. 

Just because its quicker for you to do clears by joining CL6, doesn't make it fair. You still have no right being in that level. Clearly CL8 is your level, and you should remain in there. 

Clearly, you're not very bright, and I'm not going to point out all the reasons why that is true. I'll give you one and leave this argument, because it won't go anywhere. 

If D3 were concerned with your definition of fairness they would have put min/max in all SCL. 

Nick441234

broll said:

Oh let me list the ways:
1.  I'm a casual player that never played anything but DDQ.  Doing this I opened lots of STs & ETs, but I rarely got anything higher than that and I got tons of XP (pre the XP change).  Now I'm level 65 and my highest characters are low level 3* champs...  (my alt account is exactly like this, 4 3* champs, only 1 rostered single-covered 4*, no 5*s...)
2.  I decided 5* land was terrible during roster based scaling or it ruined my PvP experience so I sold all my 5*s, now I'm locked in SCL 7 and my roster is struggling.
3.  I rage quit the game and deleted all my characters but one.  I decide I want to come back and now my 1 covered 1* IM is locked into SCL7...

I'm sure there's more but that's just off the top of my head...

1. I cant honestly believe anyone could get to rank 65 by just playing DDQ. It wasn't that profitable. 

2. I dont have any usable 5*s and CL7 is pretty easy for me. 

3. Theres surely a way to start an entire new game with your level reset to 0 under those circumstances.