Upcoming Character Changes - Falcon and Storm (Modern)

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

For Lazy Thor, it seems his Green power has had a few points of damage removed.

I noticed that Punisher's Molotov Cocktail seems much different than what I had listed, but I'm not sure if it changed or not.

WHAT I HAD LISTED
Max Level: 557 damage, 113 damage per Attack tile

WHAT IT IS IN THE GAME
Max Level: 668 damage, 66 damage per Attack tile

My lazy Thor at 141 says 'deals 1927 to all enemies and an additional 1927 to target'. Pretty sure it used to say 'deal 3854 to target and 1927 to rest', and those two are exactly the same, just worded differently.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Is it just me, or does that Falcon change seem very very strong? Throw up 3 punpun tiles for 9 green, and every yellow match after is 2/3rds of a judgement, without spending the yellow AP to boot. I would have expected +50 per tile or something like that, but +80 seems really really good.

It does sound strong at max level -- and it should too otherwise this bird will never see an ounce of ISO and play time.

His original incarnation was still quite good with Punisher, just not anyone else. He actually become stronger (+79 to each tile is more than 30% with a base of 100 for the first 3 matches and after that it should be over anyway) but since he shares his uberness with any special tile generator it is actually sort of balanced in the end, in light of the top tier of way overpowered characters.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Looks like Molotov Cocktail changed before March 29, noticed by Muffinmonger, and then noticed by phaserhawk on April 2.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Phantron wrote:

My lazy Thor at 141 says 'deals 1927 to all enemies and an additional 1927 to target'. Pretty sure it used to say 'deal 3854 to target and 1927 to rest', and those two are exactly the same, just worded differently.

At max, Thor used to deal 3856 damage instead of 3854 damage. He's been nerfed!

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Is it just me, or does that Falcon change seem very very strong? Throw up 3 punpun tiles for 9 green, and every yellow match after is 2/3rds of a judgement, without spending the yellow AP to boot. I would have expected +50 per tile or something like that, but +80 seems really really good.

It does sound strong at max level -- and it should too otherwise this bird will never see an ounce of ISO and play time.

His original incarnation was still quite good with Punisher, just not anyone else. He actually become stronger (+79 to each tile is more than 30% with a base of 100 for the first 3 matches and after that it should be over anyway) but since he shares his uberness with any special tile generator it is actually sort of balanced in the end, in light of the top tier of way overpowered characters.

I think this change is the result of Fury who creates a 539 strength strike tile at max lvl. Which would have meant a 162 buff after one match with Falcon. Does beg the question though if Falcon adds 3x79 whats Daken going to be like....

Also is the new all star team Daken/Falcon/LT? Yellow and green match teams into oblivion.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Phantron wrote:

My lazy Thor at 141 says 'deals 1927 to all enemies and an additional 1927 to target'. Pretty sure it used to say 'deal 3854 to target and 1927 to rest', and those two are exactly the same, just worded differently.

At max, Thor used to deal 3856 damage instead of 3854 damage. He's been nerfed!

Wow, that's pretty sneaky!

Unknown

Rorex wrote:

I think this change is the result of Fury who creates a 539 strength strike tile at max lvl. Which would have meant a 162 buff after one match with Falcon. Does beg the question though if Falcon adds 3x79 whats Daken going to be like....

Also is the new all star team Daken/Falcon/LT? Yellow and green match teams into oblivion.

Daken would obviously be pretty insane on offense but he'd still die pretty easily on defense due to his lack of HPs. You'll also just have to deny yellow to turn this team into essentially just LT, so that's why I said even though I think his ability is way overpowered, it's somehow distributed to all the guys who needed it to balance out the game so maybe it's actually fair. The biggest problem in terms of balance is of course still Punisher + Falcon. That was going to be the most powerful team (not counting Nick Fury) before the change and it still is, but if that combination turns out to be okay, then the other combinations are probably okay too. It seems to address the 'average' guy's inability to deal with the massive HP massive damage slow characters like LT, as previously LT just took your damage and built up AP and then you die. It also provides enough extra offense to deal with the opposite type of characters, low HP specialists like The Hood or OBW who managed to live long enough to use their specials/passives. Time will tell how the magnitude of these changes work. It's a fundementally unsound idea IMO, but it can work if the numbers work out just right.

Phaserhawk

Rorex wrote:

Phantron wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Is it just me, or does that Falcon change seem very very strong? Throw up 3 punpun tiles for 9 green, and every yellow match after is 2/3rds of a judgement, without spending the yellow AP to boot. I would have expected +50 per tile or something like that, but +80 seems really really good.

It does sound strong at max level -- and it should too otherwise this bird will never see an ounce of ISO and play time.

His original incarnation was still quite good with Punisher, just not anyone else. He actually become stronger (+79 to each tile is more than 30% with a base of 100 for the first 3 matches and after that it should be over anyway) but since he shares his uberness with any special tile generator it is actually sort of balanced in the end, in light of the top tier of way overpowered characters.

I think this change is the result of Fury who creates a 539 strength strike tile at max lvl. Which would have meant a 162 buff after one match with Falcon. Does beg the question though if Falcon adds 3x79 whats Daken going to be like....

Also is the new all star team Daken/Falcon/LT? Yellow and green match teams into oblivion.

don't think so, it's random 3 tiles add an extra 79 per tile per match assuming you go lvl 5 yellow. the dmg buff goes on after the match and after your turn, so the other team has a chance to destroy the boosted tiles if they want. It will make people have to do a double check to make sure they destroy the right tiles in some matches. I honestly seeing Falcon becoming more valuable for his Blue skill than his yellow. This Falcon change was more of a buff to attack tiles and a nerf to strike and defensive but strike and defensive tiles don't need any more help.

Spoit

The real question is: did they nerf the animation time for his yellow with this change

Unknown

Falcon + X-force (post-buff) anyone? Sound mighty scary to me.

Hopefully X-force green will scale with level. EDIT: My bad, it does scale I've been informed. I thought I played against X-force in a simulator node (during 1st simulator) and the high level X-force still only placed 10 damage strike tiles.

jojeda654

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Phantron wrote:

My lazy Thor at 141 says 'deals 1927 to all enemies and an additional 1927 to target'. Pretty sure it used to say 'deal 3854 to target and 1927 to rest', and those two are exactly the same, just worded differently.

At max, Thor used to deal 3856 damage instead of 3854 damage. He's been nerfed!

**** that ****. I'm tired of the devs release OP characters and then ninja nerfing them to make lots of money. Now my lvl 20 2/2/4 toon is **** forever. I QUIT!!!

/s

Unknown

Milkrain wrote:

Falcon + X-force (post-buff) anyone? Sound mighty scary to me.

Hopefully X-force green will scale with level.

X Force already scales with level. I just tried it on my level 30 X Force and it adds 4 strength strike tiles. At level 230 they're 15 strength strike tiles.

I remember in a different game there was a way overpowered class that always complained none of their ability scale with levels so they need buff, and dev was like 'but your ability does one million damage at level 1, it doesn't need to scale with levels."

NorthernPolarity

Phaserhawk wrote:

don't think so, it's random 3 tiles add an extra 79 per tile per match assuming you go lvl 5 yellow. the dmg buff goes on after the match and after your turn, so the other team has a chance to destroy the boosted tiles if they want. It will make people have to do a double check to make sure they destroy the right tiles in some matches. I honestly seeing Falcon becoming more valuable for his Blue skill than his yellow. This Falcon change was more of a buff to attack tiles and a nerf to strike and defensive but strike and defensive tiles don't need any more help.

Falcon's blue being better than his yellow? A level 5 yellow gives you an extra 240 damage in strike tiles at max level for a single match-3 yellow. Punishers judgement gives you 300 damage worth of strike tiles for 9 green AP: Falcon gives you 2/3rds of that every yellow match and doesn't even use the yellow AP to boot. I don't know if your comment is referring to Patch tiles or what, but upgrading Punisher's tiles to Patch-level tiles after 2 yellow matches sounds really good to me. I would hardly call it a nerf on strike tiles: it nerfs the hard hitting strike tiles like Psylocke, but is an amazing buff to cheap strike tiles like Punisher/A. Wolvie/Daken. Generalizing, this is a buff to cheap tile abilities in general. Falcon's purple gets a lot better with this change for instance, as opposed to it being a nonbo before.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

don't think so, it's random 3 tiles add an extra 79 per tile per match assuming you go lvl 5 yellow. the dmg buff goes on after the match and after your turn, so the other team has a chance to destroy the boosted tiles if they want. It will make people have to do a double check to make sure they destroy the right tiles in some matches. I honestly seeing Falcon becoming more valuable for his Blue skill than his yellow. This Falcon change was more of a buff to attack tiles and a nerf to strike and defensive but strike and defensive tiles don't need any more help.

Falcon's blue being better than his yellow? A level 5 yellow gives you an extra 240 damage in strike tiles at max level for a single match-3 yellow. Punishers judgement gives you 300 damage worth of strike tiles for 9 green AP: Falcon gives you 2/3rds of that every yellow match and doesn't even use the yellow AP to boot. I don't know if your comment is referring to Patch tiles or what, but upgrading Punisher's tiles to Patch-level tiles after 2 yellow matches sounds really good to me. I would hardly call it a nerf on strike tiles: it nerfs the hard hitting strike tiles like Psylocke, but is an amazing buff to cheap strike tiles like Punisher/A. Wolvie/Daken. Generalizing, this is a buff to cheap tile abilities in general. Falcon's purple gets a lot better with this change for instance, as opposed to it being a nonbo before.

I think Phaserhawk is right. His yellow is really good, but there are LOTS of 3* characters who do a lot of damage.

The blue, on the other hand, is going to be invaluable in goon fights and gumming up Punisher and LazyCap Teams.

And keeping yellow-match-3s off the board is going to be much easier than denying a color, so I expect his yellow to off very rarely on defense, while his blue will be an annoyance

DubbaHuss

My Spidey is 4 blue, 4 yellow, and 5 purple. I'm sitting on a blue cover. Any chance I can get a hint about whether I should respec?

Nonce Equitaur 2

DubbaHuss wrote:

My Spidey is 4 blue, 4 yellow, and 5 purple. I'm sitting on a blue cover. Any chance I can get a hint about whether I should respec?

Probably best to ignore the following.

Irresponsibility - Blue Passive
Spiderman hasn't been responsible with his great power. As punishment, when his team makes a blue match, he dies.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Spiderman dies on any blue match. Level 3: Spiderman's team dies on a blue match. Level 4: All characters belonging to the player die on a blue match. Level 5: All characters in the player's Alliance die on a blue match.

Unknown

Let's use 100 as strength for Punisher:

Old way at 30%

100 -> 130 -> 169 -> 220 -> 286 -> 317

New way at +79

100 -> 179 -> 258 -> 337 -> 416 -> 495

Yes the 30% will eventually catch up but you're talking about 3X495 strike tiles by the 6th yellow match. The game probably is going to end really soon at this point so it hardly matters if you eventually overtake the new way.

There's no magic to how easy it is to deny a color as a function of color itself. The plausbility of denying a color is simply the sum of the value of the color to you + sum of the color to the enemy. It is easiest to deny a color that both side needs, because you do get to move first. If you don't need a color, it is harder to deny that color since matching that color is like wasting a turn. Even if you have Falcon, if you don't have a special tile out, then matching yellow is still not great without another guy who can consume yellow. LT is the only top tier character that consumes yellow. BP might be top tier though his yellow is hardly something you prioritize on (you'd definitely prefer black over yellow), and same deal with Spiderman (you'd always prioritize blue over his yellow). Yes LT is very strong, but he's still not on every team, which means in general yellow is a hard color to deny.

I'd think just dropping purple to 3 would solve the problem. If you really need more protect, just don't put strike tiles. Inspiration buffs up those protection tiles up pretty fast anyway.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

DubbaHuss wrote:

My Spidey is 4 blue, 4 yellow, and 5 purple. I'm sitting on a blue cover. Any chance I can get a hint about whether I should respec?

Probably best to ignore the following.

Irresponsibility - Blue Passive
Spiderman hasn't been responsible with his great power. As punishment, when his team makes a blue match, he dies.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Spiderman dies on any blue match. Level 3: Spiderman's team dies on a blue match. Level 4: All characters belonging to the player die on a blue match. Level 5: All characters in the player's Alliance die on a blue match.

'
The level 5 ability has all kinds of potential for alliance drama.

Unknown

gamar wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

don't think so, it's random 3 tiles add an extra 79 per tile per match assuming you go lvl 5 yellow. the dmg buff goes on after the match and after your turn, so the other team has a chance to destroy the boosted tiles if they want. It will make people have to do a double check to make sure they destroy the right tiles in some matches. I honestly seeing Falcon becoming more valuable for his Blue skill than his yellow. This Falcon change was more of a buff to attack tiles and a nerf to strike and defensive but strike and defensive tiles don't need any more help.

Falcon's blue being better than his yellow? A level 5 yellow gives you an extra 240 damage in strike tiles at max level for a single match-3 yellow. Punishers judgement gives you 300 damage worth of strike tiles for 9 green AP: Falcon gives you 2/3rds of that every yellow match and doesn't even use the yellow AP to boot. I don't know if your comment is referring to Patch tiles or what, but upgrading Punisher's tiles to Patch-level tiles after 2 yellow matches sounds really good to me. I would hardly call it a nerf on strike tiles: it nerfs the hard hitting strike tiles like Psylocke, but is an amazing buff to cheap strike tiles like Punisher/A. Wolvie/Daken. Generalizing, this is a buff to cheap tile abilities in general. Falcon's purple gets a lot better with this change for instance, as opposed to it being a nonbo before.

I think Phaserhawk is right. His yellow is really good, but there are LOTS of 3* characters who do a lot of damage.

The blue, on the other hand, is going to be invaluable in goon fights and gumming up Punisher and LazyCap Teams.

And keeping yellow-match-3s off the board is going to be much easier than denying a color, so I expect his yellow to off very rarely on defense, while his blue will be an annoyance

Invaluable seems a bit strong. Redwing takes care of one tile every 3 turns at max blue, or else you need to destroy the redwing tile (in which case, you could probably have destroyed the goon countdown/strike tile anyway) and further, you can't select which tile it goes after. I don't think anyone's tested but I'm pretty sure it's random as opposed to "countdown most likely to go off" or "strongest tile on the board."

Redwing is nice but hardly the be all end all of abilities and it also requires you to keep a blue AP pool. That may not be a problem with nerfs to Spidey and C Mag coming but it means anyone using a blue ability is handicapped.

Whereas every time you match yellow with Falcon, you're adding an extra 240 damage per hit. Judgment + yellow match + yellow match = ow. That's what, almost 1000 damage per match 3? And you generate yellow AP to use

NorthernPolarity

gamar wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

don't think so, it's random 3 tiles add an extra 79 per tile per match assuming you go lvl 5 yellow. the dmg buff goes on after the match and after your turn, so the other team has a chance to destroy the boosted tiles if they want. It will make people have to do a double check to make sure they destroy the right tiles in some matches. I honestly seeing Falcon becoming more valuable for his Blue skill than his yellow. This Falcon change was more of a buff to attack tiles and a nerf to strike and defensive but strike and defensive tiles don't need any more help.

Falcon's blue being better than his yellow? A level 5 yellow gives you an extra 240 damage in strike tiles at max level for a single match-3 yellow. Punishers judgement gives you 300 damage worth of strike tiles for 9 green AP: Falcon gives you 2/3rds of that every yellow match and doesn't even use the yellow AP to boot. I don't know if your comment is referring to Patch tiles or what, but upgrading Punisher's tiles to Patch-level tiles after 2 yellow matches sounds really good to me. I would hardly call it a nerf on strike tiles: it nerfs the hard hitting strike tiles like Psylocke, but is an amazing buff to cheap strike tiles like Punisher/A. Wolvie/Daken. Generalizing, this is a buff to cheap tile abilities in general. Falcon's purple gets a lot better with this change for instance, as opposed to it being a nonbo before.

I think Phaserhawk is right. His yellow is really good, but there are LOTS of 3* characters who do a lot of damage.

The blue, on the other hand, is going to be invaluable in goon fights and gumming up Punisher and LazyCap Teams.

And keeping yellow-match-3s off the board is going to be much easier than denying a color, so I expect his yellow to off very rarely on defense, while his blue will be an annoyance

The interesting thing is that Falcon potentially does more damage than any of the existing 3* characters. Yellow is even more powerful than Wolvie's green pre-nerf since it doesn't use the AP if you can actually get 3 strike tiles out there. I think the question you need to ask to see which skill defines the character is to say "If Falcon went to a 2 skill character by getting rid of either blue or yellow, which one would I miss more?". Taking out yellow would leave him near-useless in PvP: I don't see anyone using him solely for his yellow and his ability to randomly hose LazyCap/Punisher. Taking out blue would leave him weaker in PvE against goons, but I doubt you'd sorely miss the ability in PvP. I get what you guys are saying in that yellow is just a damage ability that can be replaced with other damaging abilities while blue is a unique effect that you don't really see on other characters, but I still think that yellow is the main reason you would use him in any non-goon situation, which is what I'd consider the bulk of the game to be.