PVE tapping

Kevmcg

For me, PVE tapping eliminates the fun of competing. I like to compete for top rewards, but when any roster can sit for hours playing mindlessly to gain 100+ points per sub, it devalues the fun of competitive playing. MPQ PVE is at its best when several players are going for top 5/10 and playing as fast as they can, finding good player combinations, managing resources, and the risk/reward of how late to start for max points while still being able to finish.

One of the events in the past of having all nodes go to 0 resulted in a bunch of ties, but that was also because the regen rate was altered allowing many players to score the same on each sub if they did all node clears on time.

Many fixes have been proposed but the best was simple - make the regeneration rate of the nodes faster than the ability to beat them. Ex - best tapping node in SCL9 can get 3 pts / min or 180 pts per hour. Set the node point values so they also gain 3 pts/min or more and the problem is solved. The gains of tapping are outweighed by the penalty of starting the node early. There will not be many ties as all players clear at different speed and start end of sub grinds at different points.

 

ZekeBarrett

I'm just gonna leave this link here:  https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/62425/updates-to-story-mission-minimum-points-3-28-17#latest

For those that don't want to go to it, I will quote Brigby, "Hey Everyone,

We’ve recently noticed some players have been repeatedly playing missions (upwards of 1,000 times!) in order to gain higher placements in Events. While this immense amount of dedication is certainly impressive, we feel that this just isn’t a healthy way to play the game, and it isn’t fair to players who don’t want to grind trivially easy missions for a significant amount of time."

I have a feeling that tapping a node worth 4pts (upwards of 1,000 times) isn't a healthy way to play the game either.

Rod5

I’m no PvE monster, but I do think there should be some solution for over-tapping.

Personally I think there would ideally be a different structure for PvE anyway which allows players to start whenever, and the quicker they finish the higher the score/better the placement.

Beer40

All nodes should go to 0 after 6 clears.

Coulson_Lives

Agree with OP 100%.  People who can legitimately clear the fastest are losing LT and rewards to these cheaters.  This needs to be addressed immediately. 

Kahmon

Eliminate placement rewards in pve and progression rewards in pvp.

This would make them true to their formats instead of differently weighted hybrids.

Kahmon

Only semi-serious above, though it would solve the problem.

On topic, what's the big deal? It feels to me like sour grapes from the op that someone dare put in a ton more work to place higher than them. If someone put in the time and effort for the extra points then they deserve the placement. There is nothing stopping anyone else from doing the same.

LifeofAgony

Time investment versus $$ investment.

As point of reference, d3 never told us what was optimal in pve - the players determined how to maximize the points and everyone just accepted that this is the way to be competitive.

Seems others have found a way to extract more points than you have by means which are available.  No cheating, no exploits, just playing within the system as it exists.

Don’t like losing, change your strategy.

The rockett

Maybe i need to clarify my post.  This is not "sour grapes". This issue has been brought up many times by many people.  If I lose to a tapper, it sucks because I can beat them straight up.  I have other PVE monsters in my bracket, all friends, that would beat me over the 7 days.  They are just quicker but because of tappers, this is in all SL9 PVE brackets, 1st place is now decided because none of us have the time to tap for hours on end.  If this is what D3/Demi want, then why did they "try" to address this in March per the post above.  Myself and others are asking them to re look at this now that SL9 PVE is open and giving out LTs for top 5.  

scottee

Bring back rubberbanding!

Just kidding, please don't.

fmftint

scottee said:

Bring back rubberbanding!

Just kidding, please don't.

I don't think the current dev team even knows what rubberbanding is

Rhycar

fmftint said:

scottee said:

Bring back rubberbanding!

Just kidding, please don't.

I don't think the current dev team even knows what rubberbanding is

That's not a bad thing. Don't Google it, kids.

The rockett

broll said:

All I can say is boo boo.  You tell us who don’t like points based PvP to jump through all the crazy hoops to win. Someone does they same thing in PvE and it’s a *major* problem...

I get so sick of the idea that some end game players of this game have that they should just be handed the same rewards every time and it’s a mortal sin if a change gives them slightly fewer rewards.  Good on you tappers. Stick it to them!

@broll as Bow has said, this is champed 5* some 550 players that do this. Also, some of those were against the Win based system are tappers so who are you cheering for now?  This isn't a change in the game. This has been an issue for some time and they "tried" to fix it.  Didn't help. Sorry that some of us try and play this game at a high level for both PVE and PVP for a very long time to maximum the rewards and progress our rosters. Yes I used the word "Major" and maybe I should have used another word but this still doesn't take away of a problem we see with this game mechanic. 

CharlieCroker

LifeofAgony said:

Time investment versus $$ investment.

As point of reference, d3 never told us what was optimal in pve - the players determined how to maximize the points and everyone just accepted that this is the way to be competitive.

Seems others have found a way to extract more points than you have by means which are available.  No cheating, no exploits, just playing within the system as it exists.

Don’t like losing, change your strategy.

Clearly the optimal way to play would be to do opening clears asap as normal, then clear say the 4* essential continously for 23h, then do the final grind.  

The system would allow anyone to do that, but to argue it's healthy and people should be doing it is ridiculous.  The devs should make adjustments to stop this, as they've previously claimed they would.

And for me this isn't about winning versus losing, as it's very rare I even try to place t1 in either PvP or PvE despite being capable of doing so if I wanted to.  It's about being able to be competitive and make progress whilst treating MPQ as a fun game rather than a job or vocation. 

LifeofAgony

CharlieCroker said:

LifeofAgony said:

Time investment versus $$ investment.

As point of reference, d3 never told us what was optimal in pve - the players determined how to maximize the points and everyone just accepted that this is the way to be competitive.

Seems others have found a way to extract more points than you have by means which are available.  No cheating, no exploits, just playing within the system as it exists.

Don’t like losing, change your strategy.

Clearly the optimal way to play would be to do opening clears asap as normal, then clear say the 4* essential continously for 23h, then do the final grind.  

The system would allow anyone to do that, but to argue it's healthy and people should be doing it is ridiculous.  The devs should make adjustments to stop this, as they've previously claimed they would.

And for me this isn't about winning versus losing, as it's very rare I even try to place t1 in either PvP or PvE despite being capable of doing so if I wanted to.  It's about being able to be competitive and make progress whilst treating MPQ as a fun game rather than a job or vocation. 

You’re choosing what is optimal - not the dev team.  You’re implaying how it should be, but it’s not.  This is how the system exists and people have found a way to gain more points.  Kudos to them.

Ad for it being healthy, I make no mention of it being a healthy or that people should do it.  It is, however, an available option that people can choose to utilize or not.

ursopro

Bring back personal scaling, that will solve everything.

Kevmcg

I hate the concept of tapping, but will admit that it is not "cheating" to use 1-4 point repetitive play for extra points. It is part of the current rules of play of PVE. The OP started this thread because developers have stated in the past they admit it is a problem and would address it. They made an attempt, but have seemingly gone silent on addressing the issue, now with higher stakes.

Players can decide for themselves what is healthy or not, but for competitive play sake for those going for Top 1/5/10, the option should be removed.

animaniactoo

Pants1000 said:

I support making all nodes drop to 0 after 7 or 10 clears.  I don’t see what that would harm and it seems like a relatively easy solution.

But I disagree that this is a major issue.  It has significant impact to a small group (top 5 players), but 99% of the playerbase isn’t affected.

No. It affects more than the top 5 players. I am someone who was getting close to regular SCL8 T20 placement and stopped caring because I am already putting more time into this game than I truly want to.

I've made adjustments around that, but part of my decision was that it was utterly useless for me to continue to try for higher placement against the tappers because I simply don't have that much time in my life to ensure that I am clearing so utterly optimally OR joining the tapping race against them to beat them.

The fact that the effect is most clearly seen among the top 5 does not mean the effect is limited to them. I imagine I am not the only one who has made the calculation I have and chosen sanity over relatively trivial extra rewards. Which do add up.

animaniactoo

ZekeBarrett said:

I'm just gonna leave this link here:  https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/62425/updates-to-story-mission-minimum-points-3-28-17#latest

For those that don't want to go to it, I will quote Brigby, "Hey Everyone,

We’ve recently noticed some players have been repeatedly playing missions (upwards of 1,000 times!) in order to gain higher placements in Events. While this immense amount of dedication is certainly impressive, we feel that this just isn’t a healthy way to play the game, and it isn’t fair to players who don’t want to grind ***trivially easy*** missions for a significant amount of time."

I have a feeling that tapping a node worth 4pts (upwards of 1,000 times) isn't a healthy way to play the game either.

FWiW I have since decided that the above emphasized phrase is key to D3/Demi's viewpoint about tapping.

I disagree with all points about tiebreakers etc. as arguments for any amount of tapping/additional grinding existing. For one simple reason: The other person has an equal ability to hit that "tiebreaker" as I do. So in reality any theoretical tiebreaker ability is completely and thoroughly nullified by that availability.

D3/Demi has no issue with people tapping - as long as they really have to work for it, and not just hit the baby nodes over an over again.

DyingLegend

Never really liked the placement rewards in pve. If you want competitive play then that's what pvp should be for. Honestly they should just add the placement rewards into the progression rewards and just get rid of competitive pve.