Kaladesh Elite Packs and the Future of Limited Format

bk1234

Mburn7 said:

ElfNeedsFood said:

It seems nearly all conversation of power creep in KLD is in reference to creatures and in AKH/HOU is mechanics or spells. I think it’s quite all right for each block to have a different feel for what it adds to the game. I think the next block appears to be leaning towards clans and synergy in sticking to your chosen clan. Could be interesting or could totally flop like Allies. 

I would not call Allies a flop, except in the sense that they only exist in the one set.  My Zendikar Gideon ally deck was one of my most consistent before standard (even better now that I finally got the Veteran Warleader).  Allies are incredibly powerful, they just do not (and most likely will not) exist in future sets

Merfolk appear sporadically in sets and Vampires are in most sets nowadays, the only one that may be an issue are Dinos

I played through TotP white with my G2 Ally deck a few weeks ago. I really like that mechanic and it held up well to Legacy decks in Supercharged and Enraged, I wouldn't call it a flop either. 

Ohboy

G2 was my go to deck for the entire set.

Allies were serious threats. 

khurram

I'd call eldrazis a huge flop. And they tried introducing a human tribe too with SOI but I'd call that a flop too. Humans just couldn't keep up with zombies. You can make a human-centric deck now though with Elspeth since she makes human tokens.
Most synergistic tribe would be zombies.
Than allies.
And spirits after that, if you had Rattlechains and SA, which to be honest all you ever needed.
There are loads of vampires but I don't really see a very efficient synergy. And I don't count Olivia.
Same with elves.
There is place for a sphinx-centric deck though, after introduction of Unesh.
Vehicles. Everyone likes the mythic ones and the harvester but playing them together just seems very boring, I don't know why. I think it might be because of FiRF. It's my least favorite event.

khurram

I'd call eldrazis a huge flop. And they tried introducing a human tribe too with SOI but I'd call that a flop too. Humans just couldn't keep up with zombies. You can make a human-centric deck now though with Elspeth since she makes human tokens.
Most synergistic tribe would be zombies.
Than allies.
And spirits after that, if you had Rattlechains and SA, which to be honest all you ever needed.
There are loads of vampires but I don't really see a very efficient synergy. And I don't count Olivia.
Same with elves.
There is place for a sphinx-centric deck though, after introduction of Unesh.
Vehicles. Everyone likes the mythic ones and the harvester but playing them together just seems very boring, I don't know why. I think it might be because of FiRF. It's my least favorite event.

wereotter

Vampires struggled as a deck because the only planeswalker we have who could effectively run them is Sarkhan. 

I was was able to make them work, and the had a decent power level, but it ended up being more focused on discard effects for madness cards, and for the buff from Stromkirk Condemned. Then you'd just use Sarkhan's first ability to make sure you had cards still in hand.

Probably could have done more if more Rakdos walkers existed. Here's hoping to see that color alignment on Angrath next set.

Mainloop25

wereotter said:

Vampires struggled as a deck because the only planeswalker we have who could effectively run them is Sarkhan. 

I beg to differ. I think any of the black planeswalkers that came after Sarkhan utilize vampires better than him. 

 I don't even think Sarkhan is the best planeswalker to use Dragons with.

bk1234

Mainloop25 said:

wereotter said:

Vampires struggled as a deck because the only planeswalker we have who could effectively run them is Sarkhan. 

I beg to differ. I think any of the black planeswalkers that came after Sarkhan utilize vampires better than him. 

 I don't even think Sarkhan is the best planeswalker to use Dragons with.

I run a L1 vampire deck very effectively — in fact I still use it for TotP, Terrors and EC — she is the only original I use regularly. 

I also dont use a single dragon in Sarkhan. 

Mburn7

khurram said:

I'd call eldrazis a huge flop. And they tried introducing a human tribe too with SOI but I'd call that a flop too. Humans just couldn't keep up with zombies. You can make a human-centric deck now though with Elspeth since she makes human tokens.
Most synergistic tribe would be zombies.
Than allies.
And spirits after that, if you had Rattlechains and SA, which to be honest all you ever needed.
There are loads of vampires but I don't really see a very efficient synergy. And I don't count Olivia.
Same with elves.
There is place for a sphinx-centric deck though, after introduction of Unesh.
Vehicles. Everyone likes the mythic ones and the harvester but playing them together just seems very boring, I don't know why. I think it might be because of FiRF. It's my least favorite event.

Why would you call eldrazi a huge flop?  Many of them are fairly powerful, and ingest/devoid is no worse than energize/overload (they actually function almost identically, except ingest also removes mana for your opponent)
Drowner of Hope and From Beyond are 2 of the best cards ever made in this game, and I use eldrazi tokens in every legacy deck I can fit them in for basically free mana (work great with Sarkhan's second FYI).

Humans and vampires I agree, human decks are fun but don't have the infinite scaling zombies do, and vampires don't synergize well with each other (although some of them are pretty powerful on their own)

And even the (old) devs agree that vehicles are meh.  I wish I could make a sphinx deck, but I don't have Unesh, or many of the other sphinxes.  But it seems like more of a fun deck than a competitive one

khurram

I knew someone would throw in Drowner, while I was writing it. Yes, it is very powerful as anyone who was playing during BFZ quickly found out. It has very obvious synergy with From Beyond, TSN and Dragon Master Outcast. But it is kinda like Olivia, isn't it. I take it as an exception. Individually there are some powerful ones. But synergy?  What other eldrazis have a good synergy going on?  I'd like to see your non-drowner eldrazi deck. Maybe I am missing something.

Sphinx deck is a fun deck. I don't have Drowner but I have been lucky enough to get all of the sphinxes in the game. 

Ohboy

Well... Decimator is an eldrazi.

So are the twins.

Arguably two cards that still dominates the meta. 

khurram

And emrakul too. These are kinda like one-card armies. Are they designed to work particularly best with other eldrazis? 
Not like allies or zombies.
As a tribe I don't see much synergy

Ohboy

Decimator is practically made for twins.

And eldrazi are kinda a "one arrives and it's enough to destroy your village" kind of entity.

wereotter

bken1234 said:

Mainloop25 said:

wereotter said:

Vampires struggled as a deck because the only planeswalker we have who could effectively run them is Sarkhan. 

I beg to differ. I think any of the black planeswalkers that came after Sarkhan utilize vampires better than him. 

 I don't even think Sarkhan is the best planeswalker to use Dragons with.

I run a L1 vampire deck very effectively — in fact I still use it for TotP, Terrors and EC — she is the only original I use regularly. 

I also dont use a single dragon in Sarkhan. 

Sarkhan doesn't have the mana gains to support dragons, so neither do I.

I prefer Sarkhan for vampires because there are some good tribal cards in red as well as the tribe had synergy with madness, which meant I wanted a planeswalker with card draw. So cards like Stensia Masquerade, and Falkenrath Gorger for red. Nahiri' Wrath and Lightning Axe played well with them and Stromkirk Condemned. Smuggler's Copter really makes a madness deck hum too.

In any case, it would be nice to get another red/black planeswalker, hopefully one with a more open build. But currently there's only one other planeswalker in those colors.

Mainloop25

I agree, I'd love to have a new R/B walker with mana gains in a similar flavor to Tezz. 

khurram

Ohboy said:

Decimator is practically made for twins.

And eldrazi are kinda a "one arrives and it's enough to destroy your village" kind of entity.

Hmm, what about the uncommons ones.. are they effective enough on their own to "destroy the village", or even with each  other. Or rares that are not Desolation Twin (which is better than most mythic eldrazis and should have been a mythic to be honest)

Ohboy

Like most older cards, they've been left behind.

But I did play an eldrazi deck as my main qb deck for weeks/months. Quite a while. Many villages were destroyed.

khurram

My early EMN era QB eldrazi deck consisted of deploy+pig+twins. Predictably. 

But I am not even talking about the current time though. I am talking about the BFZ era. Name a non-drowner eldrazi deck strategy from BFZ block that was popular and effective. Eldrazis were awkward with each other even back then.

Ohboy

Eldrazi weren't really meant to play with each other. The idea was eldrazi powered up by scions. It was scions that was a failure.

And my eldrazi deck had 4 eldrazi I think. And that cheap colorless removal that required a big creature in hand to cast. 

Matthew

This thread has strayed pretty far from its original purpose. Let's try to keep the discussion on topic please! Thank you all

//Removed Impersonation Of Moderator -Brigby

Matthew

Matthew said:

This thread has strayed pretty far from its original purpose. Let's try to keep the discussion on topic please! Thank you all

//Removed Impersonation Of Moderator -Brigby

It was a pretty good impersonation, if I do say so myself. Except for the blatantly obvious lack of a green banner or a "MOD action" portion in my signature block.