Kaladesh Elite Packs and the Future of Limited Format

bk1234

I want Rishkar's Expertise, and Sram, and Exquisite Archangel, and the Sword, and the Platinum Angel, and definitely Mechanized Production -- however I'm having trouble pulling the trigger on this elite pack, not because of my chances, but because I'm not sure how long I will be playing these cards. 

It would be great to get some direction on the future of Limited Format -- will Kaladesh be included when Ixalan comes?

Am I the only only who will probably let this set pass me by because uncertainty outweighs value?

TheDragonHermit

I find it odd that they would release more than one Kaladesh elite pack, I seem to recall another one before with the same concerns expressed. With such uncertainty it is an odd bait to use.

bk1234

TheDragonHermit said:

I find it odd that they would release more than one Kaladesh elite pack, I seem to recall another one before with the same concerns expressed. With such uncertainty it is an odd bait to use.

As I am perpetually an optimist when it comes to this game — I’m hoping that it foreshadows Kaladesh remaining included in Limited Format when the next block is released. 

babar3355

Why is that an optimistic view?  Are you saying have a 2 black standard and a 3 block legacy trail?  If that's what you mean, then I will cross my fingers and say a prayer to your unicorn steed.

Dropspot

I remember when they offered mythics for 200 jewels/crystals (not sure now) just before launching standard. So basically we spent all our currency in cards that turned worthless next week. 

I wouldn't expect them to do anything different this time. 

Unless they say with all words that KLD will remain in standard I won't be spending my jewels on KLD cards.

Gunmix25

Dropspot said:

I remember when they offered mythics for 200 jewels/crystals (not sure now) just before launching standard. So basically we spent all our currency in cards that turned worthless next week. 

I wouldn't expect them to do anything different this time. 

Unless they say with all words that KLD will remain in standard I won't be spending my jewels on KLD cards.

That 200 jewels was a scam IMHO. I tried that and got two of the same mythics back to back and rerolls were not allowed.  first was the mythic special. the second was for a chance of masterpieces or mythics... if memory serves correctly

bk1234

babar3355 said:

Why is that an optimistic view?  Are you saying have a 2 black standard and a 3 block legacy trail?  If that's what you mean, then I will cross my fingers and say a prayer to your unicorn steed.

I’m hoping that going forward it aligns more closely with paper and that the first rollout was only 2 blocks because the SOI power creep was just to big to keep newer players engaged. However the Kaladesh power creep is minimal and so moving to 3 blocks would make sense.

TheDragonHermit

It would also give them time to deal with any PWs that find their abilities next to useless with mechanics that are getting put out of standard.

babar3355

Ew.. I cant wait for KLD to rotate out...  it means cycling will be not that far behind.  Cycling for another year?

Gunmix25

babar3355 said:

Ew.. I cant wait for KLD to rotate out...  it means cycling will be not that far behind.  Cycling for another year?

That would mean ... by next Sept?

Gilesclone

Sadly, we’re stuck with cycling for a long time. 

shteev

Gilesclone said:

Sadly, we’re stuck with cycling for a long time. 

Unless Oktagon fancy doing something about it...

Gilesclone

shteev said:

Gilesclone said:

Sadly, we’re stuck with cycling for a long time. 

Unless Oktagon fancy doing something about it...

We can always hope!

majincob

Sorry for nitpicking @bken1234 , but can you please call it "standard" format? Limited format has a specific meaning in paper magic and it throws me for a loop whenever you say limited when in paper magic terms you mean standard.

bk1234

majincob said:

Sorry for nitpicking @bken1234 , but can you please call it "standard" format? Limited format has a specific meaning in paper magic and it throws me for a loop whenever you say limited when in paper magic terms you mean standard.

Since it has been only designated as Limited Format in official correspondence from D3 Go! for PQ, I prefer to use this term when referring to the game -- as it doesn't not align with paper Standard -- which is why I think they use the term Limited. 

Also it's important to designate the difference because paper players who join the game might have expectations that do not align. 

As of now, "Standard" and "Legacy" are the terms we, the players, have applied to the two formats -- and the official terms are "Limited Format" or "Deck Restrictions" and "No Deck Restrictions". When D3 Go! or Oktagon start using the terms Legacy and Standard in official correspondence, I will happily adjust -- (but then will start a conversation about why they don't align with paper yet use the same terminology).

My teams don't like it either, but I think until we get some feedback on the intentions of the two formats, it's important to designate the difference. 

wereotter

The Kaladesh power creep is still pretty evident when compared against Origins and Amonkhet. Consider creature size. There are no creatures in Amonkhet that are inherently larger than 8/8. Majestic Myriach is the only one that can enter larger, and even then ONLY if you have two other creatures in play when you cast it, then it comes in as a 10/10. Compare that to the creatures in Kaladesh. There are some that are absolutely more powerful than Innistrad creatures. Boomship is a 12/12, Heart of Kiran is a 16/16 if it's in the first creature slot when it enters, Angel of Invention is an 11/11, Metalwork Colossus is a 12/12. If they are trying to undo power creep, Kaladesh absolutely must rotate out as soon as Ixalan drops.

The only reason you see Amonkhet played at all as opposed to the beasts from Kaladesh is because cycling. If that weren't a part of the set, we'd see Amonkhet as largely too weak a set to compete with both the size of creatures and the rampant power of energy from Kaladesh.

bk1234

I don't agree with this -- as I never jumped on the cycling bandwagon -- I see Amonkhet as being quite powerful in it's own right -- in fact, most of my decks are Amonkhet / HOU heavy regardless of format. Cycling is boring, games should be fun. 

What Amonkhet is missing in aggro, it makes up for in other ways. Some of the best cards in the game for control are in this set for instance. 

Desert's Hold is an uncommon that does the same thing as S. Bonds for 2 less mana. 

Gideon's Intervention and Gideon's Defeat can win or lose a match for you depending on whether you are playing with or against them. 

Combine these three cards with Nyx from Origins and nothing can stop you. 

Also the ability to drive out other cards using things like HUF, Omni and Swarm are way more powerful than what we've seen anywhere. 

wickedwitch74

Dropspot said:

I remember when they offered mythics for 200 jewels/crystals (not sure now) just before launching standard. So basically we spent all our currency in cards that turned worthless next week. 

I applaud the addition of older sets in the Masterpiece Collection boosters (can we get Innistrad, Zendikar and Origins mythics as well, please?)... but I can't help but get the feeling that Kaladesh will rotate out with the release of Ixalan.

Good riddance, too.

bk1234

wickedwitch74 said:

Dropspot said:

I remember when they offered mythics for 200 jewels/crystals (not sure now) just before launching standard. So basically we spent all our currency in cards that turned worthless next week. 

I applaud the addition of older sets in the Masterpiece Collection boosters (can we get Innistrad, Zendikar and Origins mythics as well, please?)... but I can't help but get the feeling that Kaladesh will rotate out with the release of Ixalan.

Good riddance, too.

To that point, I would be happy just to see these sets back in the vault. I went very casual during the end of BFZ / Oath and I'm missing a lot of key cards that I would love to have. 

wickedwitch74

bken1234 said:

To that point, I would be happy just to see these sets back in the vault. I went very casual during the end of BFZ / Oath and I'm missing a lot of key cards that I would love to have. 

Yes, I joined the game right after Kaladesh released, and while I've collected a good number of rares from earlier sets, the Mythics mostly elude me.

If they offered Masterpiece Collections of these older sets at a reduced cost of, say, 200 Mana Jewels, I, for one, would certainly bite at the chance.

TomB

bken1234 said:

I don't agree with this -- as I never jumped on the cycling bandwagon -- I see Amonkhet as being quite powerful in it's own right -- in fact, most of my decks are Amonkhet / HOU heavy regardless of format. Cycling is boring, games should be fun. 

What Amonkhet is missing in aggro, it makes up for in other ways. Some of the best cards in the game for control are in this set for instance. 

Desert's Hold is an uncommon that does the same thing as S. Bonds for 2 less mana. 

Gideon's Intervention and Gideon's Defeat can win or lose a match for you depending on whether you are playing with or against them. 

Combine these three cards with Nyx from Origins and nothing can stop you. 

Also the ability to drive out other cards using things like HUF, Omni and Swarm are way more powerful than what we've seen anywhere. 

You're right - if you own the bolded cards Amonket/HOU ARE powerful sets, but comparatively I agree with @wereotter that the power level of KLD/AER was superior.