Should 5* Gambit be nerfed?

Hadronic

8punch said:

i just created a topic on charther discussion. but let me reply that also here.

kudos for the guy who came up with this combo, it was not me. but i fought this team and i got totally destroyed.

why?

lets start with OLM. 

OLM add knives on the board after someone uses his special power. this knives dont do much damage but....

when gambit uses his purple power it adds countdown titles.

now comes the bonus. Carol has pasive yellow power. whenever someone countdown titles goes to 0 she will add strenght to the knives. 

so you can imagine what happens. knives strenghten in power. the power of gambit becomes stronger. your match damage becomes stronger. suddenly you get match damage of +10K, countdown power special of gambit suddenly does 8000K per countdown block. not to mention gambit getting new red ap and purple ap every turn.

total domination were no team comes even close. its perfection!

so if you want to build the strongest team for the moment, i believe this is it!

Does this actually ramp up the strikes faster than using carol/coulson/hawkeye? My gambit isn't good enough to test it myself.

Hadronic

aesthetocyst said:

Hadronic said:

Does this actually ramp up the strikes faster than using carol/coulson/hawkeye? My gambit isn't good enough to test it myself.

Yes, because you don't have to wait for C4rol to make strikes, one at a time, with her black. She already has a pile on the board ready to buff away.

who waits for carol to create strikes with this team one at a time? use her yellow to pop the Sonic Arrow.

I agree that team gets the strikes out faster and starts ramping sooner, but does it actually ramp faster? I have had turns where there are 20 CD tiles about to resolve.

I'm guessing there is a critical point where if the team you are fighting have more total HP than a certain value then carol/coulson/hawkeye tends to be faster. Just guessing here though

Hadronic

aesthetocyst said:

Hadronic said:

who waits for carol to create strikes with this team one at a time? use her yellow to pop the Sonic Arrow.

I agree that team gets the strikes out faster and starts ramping sooner, but does it actually ramp faster? I have had turns where there are 20 CD tiles about to resolve.

I'm guessing there is a critical point where if the team you are fighting have more total HP than a certain value then carol/coulson/hawkeye tends to be faster. Just guessing here though

Sonic is the 4th arrow in the sequence right? That's a lot of setup, a lot of animations to sit through

Are you asking about faster in terms of turns, or in terms of actual RL time? The goblin team is very fast when the board cooperates (25K of strikes by turn 5 for instance!); the gambit team wouldn't even need the board's permission and would be pumping out CDs like clockwork, w/o needing to sit through endless animations.

I would think the gambit oml team beats them all. It should bring the reliability of the Coulhawk team and marry it to the speed of the gobby oml team.

I didnt specify
yes, the team is definitely faster in RL time, cause like you said the animations of coulson/hawkeye slog that team down so that each turn takes 3 minutes.

Number of turns was more what I was getting at about there potentially being a critical value.

Justice Jacks

No, he's good but not OP

LifeofAgony said:

Fought an unboosted 451 gambit with 280ish 4* Grocket and Gams - my team was triple 475+ 5*.  Had no bad cascades and my team finished with 1 toon downed, a second under 10k health and last toon with about 40% health.  

Dunno how to quantify that as anything other than OP.

You need to be better at match 3 then.  Strange, BSS, and an old shoe melts that team.

D4Ni13

No, he's good but not OP

I am not pro-nerf, since we still have to see him in real play without being boosted and all. But if they would consider nerfing him, I think the 3* version got it right. Remove most of the damage of his red, so it would rather be skewed toward utility rather than damage and he is fixed. One damaging power in purple, one utility in red and the AP generator.

Wumpushunter

No, he's good but not OP

I don't have him, I barely have,any 5s but I am against nerfs for any reason. Buff banner, ock, and SL instead.

Brigby

Hi @CharlieCroker. Thanks for starting this poll, and getting everyone talking about the new Gambit character.

There are several threads in the Character Discussion section that could really help players in determining their choice in the poll, so would you mind if I moved this over to that section?

killerkoala

Yes he is way OP

there are no drawback to gambit or BB.  so they should both get nerf considering how  much damage they each can do in no time.

I know all i have been seeing are either or both, in lightning rounds and late in pvp.  i can see more than 10% usage for people in actual decent rosters 4*+ transition.

Jonny1Punch

Yes he is way OP

A dangerous precedent was set when OML was nerfed based on the 10% usage factor and the devs claiming he “ did too much “. We all know Logan was mid-tier at best and the highly unnecessary nerf was most likely a health pack sales issue for D3. Sloppy and poorly implemented our ideas to gently tweak him were ignored in favor of an execution. Our ideas our almost always completely ignored as we have always produced sensible solutions to many “funbalances” in the past. As paying customers we should be outraged.
Moving on....

So the rise of the ridiculously OP meta of Panthos dominated PVP everywhere along with broken combos like Hawkeye/Coulson. Thanos is a suicide machine
and BP alone isn’t a threat so I knew they wouldn’t get touched ....... hawk/Coulson leaves you exposed for major hits so meh. Whatever right? Forget the 10% usage factor but.......

Now if OML did too much.... what the tinykitty does that mean for the absurdly OP, “MPQ for dummies” pvp autopilot that is Gambit? He does it all with very few drawbacks at all, if any. A strong health pool, massive damage for low AP, special tile eraser and godly automatic AP generation. How this guy was released is beyond me. For starters he needs to have his health cut back to low Doctor strange levels or have his red / AP gen reduced big time.....

Gambit is light years ahead of nearly every other 5*and that is unacceptable.

To correct this I would honestly prefer to see no nerf, but rather a major quality of life upgrade for many 5* who are being outclassed by some 4*. Buffs to more health, bigger damage and just straight up redo banner. This would help minimize the power creep and balance out the 5* tier.

But due to D3s extremely unfriendly choices as of late I doubt that would happen. So yes a nerf is needed. 

P.S- Put the CP back in progression that was also the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen and has upset all players across the board. Go fix the drowning, diluted pile of bad karma known as “ 5* classics” as well. Thanks in advance.

**Removed skirting of profanity filter - Ducky

CharlieCroker

Yes he is way OP

@Brigby feel free to move.  Thanks.

fight4thedream

**Mod Mode: ON**

Moved as per conversation between @Brigby and @CharlieCroker

**Mode Mode: OFF**

JarvisJackrabbit

Just tried 1/1/4 Black Bolt with a 1/0/0 Gambit and GamBolt was still plenty useful because Gambit was basically 2/1/1 the whole time from Bolt's yellow.

My goodness, these two are going to be everywhere.

Dayv

Yes he is way OP

Meander said:

I'd say wait until they remove the boost to judge him. He's op because he's boosted to 500s and above right now

I just fought him unboosted in a Lightning Round, and I’m a convert now.  Nerf him immediately.

Dayv

Yes he is way OP

Chrono_Tata said:

I'm just really curious as to whether 0/0/5 Gambit was an intended viable build by the devs when they tied his passive's limitation to the colours of active powers that be actually has rather than just fixing the colours, or if it's an oversight. 

I think it was intended to prevent a partially covered Gambit from being actively harmful, and they underestimated the exploitable edge cases.  If I were one of those level 550 crazies, I’d be building myself a 0/0/5, 0/5/5, and 5/0/5 Gambit for future use right now.  Still working on my 0/0/0 at the moment.

sinnerjfl

Yes he is way OP

I dont think any characters should generate free AP like he is, that is incredibly stupid. Also, lets pair that with a 7 AP move that earns AP too (lol) and does roughly 15k once it gets going. A few early red matches and you can start spamming earlier.

Not enough no, let's give him a power that erases all special tiles too. And a huge healthpool to boost because why the hell not.

Broken character.

Dayv

Yes he is way OP

Jarvind said:

Sm0keyJ0e said:

remove all of Thanos' active powers; 

Not to nitpick, but I'm gonna nitpick - wouldn't Thanos's purple prevent Gambit from doing anything since he locks out anything that changes the board?

Tried that.  Doesn't last long enough, unless you also have some way to generate enough purple to keep placing new countdowns.  Stuns are better, because they also stop Gambit's AP generation.

There are a lot of characters with a "kill this one first" priority, such as Black Bolt, Thanos, Doctor Strange, and others that present a serious danger of sudden wipeout or punish you throughout the match.  No other character that currently exists will ever take priority over Gambit's "no, really, you have to kill me first" designation.

The most common advice for how to defeat him is "bring Gambit".  BP/Strange can work, but you're going to need health packs after every match, and it can still go wrong.

I'm definitely still in the "nerf him" contingent.

Curiosity

Yes he is way OP

JFC, just fought him at 0/0/5 with Spider Gwen.

So within 6 turns I was one character down and in permanent stun lock. Her pink stun works stupidly well with him. Not sure I can counter that in 4* Land.

so I vote nerf on the battery.

Justice Jacks

No, he's good but not OP

Sm0keyJ0e said:

Any character that a 4-year-old can play and win with is probably OP. I'm also waiting to see after the boost is over, but his ability to counter almost every board power in the game seems ridiculous and that will continue even after the boost: removes Panther's only active power; remove all of Thanos' active powers; remove all of HE's active powers; removes Strange's best active power; is fueled by an opposing Bolt; Nat can remove his CD tiles but she needs to collect TWELVE purple on her own; remove Phx strike tiles and her revive CD; removes OML strikes from two of his powers; removes Goblin's two active powers; removes anything DD can do; is fueled by an opposing Surfer; fueled by an opposing SL; removes whatever it is Cap does; remove Banner's CD tile; removes Ock's CD tile... and creates nothing of his own that can be stolen and used against him. This is just 5* land. You'll have to research all the 4's to see what he does to them.

Keep in mind, when facing Gambit, you HAVE to stun or down him within three moves before he starts launching his powers. If you don't luck into the colors required to do so you're in for a nasty fight as he starts countering everything you do and zapping you with his 14k red (unboosted, level 450) every 2-3 turns. Sure you can stick Panther in front of that and use Strange to help counteract; it's not impossible. But it requires a good board and careful planning and boosts and/or TU's.

On offense (and this is coming from champed Gambit users)--you do nothing but fire red and purple as they become available. Occasionally you wait an extra turn for Thanos or Panther or HE to fire their powers so you can simply remove it the next turn, but otherwise he is completely mindless to use.

I think everyone saying he is not OP either hasn't had to fight him yet or already has him. This is a dangerous meta D3 is rolling out--an auto-AP generating goon that requires almost zero strategy and can counter-act nearly every single toon they have released so far, AND cannot be misused by the AI. Maybe a toon will come out that allows you to stun someone at the start of the match? Dunno...

DISCLAIMER: I do not have a champed Gambit at this time because I want to wait and see what he looks like after his buff. I have enough resources that I could champ him if/when I decide to.

In addition to Colog's thorough response to having to fight a GamBolt team, it's even easier to beat Gambit when he's not being partnered with Bolt.  His red is useless without charged tiles and if he has to generate his own charged tiles, you get 3 turns before he first fires, and then two turns to match away the 2 charged tiles, rinse and repeat.  And if you get Thanos purple out, that blocks all Gambit powers.

Unboosted, Gambit is above average but no better in PVP than Bolt or Thanos, though he counter opponents better.  It's just that Gambit makes a perfect partner for one of the strongest characters in the game (Bolt) and they have great synergy.  But that is no different than BP being pretty meh on his own, but when partnered with Thanos becomes a beast.    

Gambit can get out of hand quickly if you're not careful fighting him.  But then again, so can Star Lord and IM46, yet I don't see many advocating for their nerfing (nor should they).

LifeofAgony

Yes he is way OP

The difference I believe is that many teams can turn south quickly - gambit is a self generator that you have no way of preventing other than stunning or killing him - if it took him 5-8 turns to get rolling, it’s one thing - it’s 2 turns and the pain train starts rolling.

BB can in theory never fire his passive since you can continually match charged tiles - gambit you have 1 path to victory, stun/down him before his cd tiles start resolving.
i have very well developed roster than should not have any issue with 450ish champ 5s and I run about 50% success rate hitting gambolts.  There is not a single other pairing I’ve encountered with that low of a win rate.  That screams OP to me (day 1150ish fwiw).

Lower the ap generation or raise his power costs and it’s much more in-line.

Orion

Yes he is way OP

In PvE, I can take my level 420 Gambit and single-handedly beat any 5* essential level 515 goon node.  And even dumber, I don't have to make a single match in any of his colors.  That's how dumb he is.  Most teams can be screwed by a bad initial board, but not Gambit.

In PvP, the only reliable way to beat him is with your own Gambit.  That's the definition of OP.