RIP Kingpin: killed by nerf dart

Anon

qandols said:

I" rage sold" my level 200 kingpin after trying to use him 

Might come to regret that.

qandols

Probably. Oh well, it's just a game.

Moon Roach

Aargh!  I've fired off Maggia Pawns, and want to do the 12k damage to wipe out the last opponent.  No, instead because now there are more than 3 countdowns you'll take "only" 8600 and live.

Why can't the full single person damage apply regardless when there's only one opponent left?

Warbringa

I do think an interesting mechanic would have it be a set amount of damage that is divided evenly between the number of characters left on the opposing team.  It could be a very effective nuke (like his original black) against one remaining opponent but also slide down to a moderate AOE if you used it with three opponents left or a decent AOE with two opponents left.  Somewhat of a modified Riri red power.

hopper1979

Yep I have been saying that since the change, Moon I feel you I described that happening on the previous page it is a very bad mechanic.  If they plan to keep it as is, removing 3 countdowns and aoe, they need to do something like Ironheart make it stronger with 2 or 1 people on the board because it hamstrings you at the end of a match especially if close.  It might even work it it reduced the countdown of all remaining tiles by 1 or 2 but as is the black power is now horrible.  I will not sell him though I got burned on Carnage.

Orion

I don't think that they even cared how the changes would affect how the players use Kingpin, because they know the players don't use him.  I think the changes were made to make him a more interesting enemy to fight against.  If Kingpin is in a node with 2 goons, then he has plenty of CDs to sacrifice for possible AoE damage.  I really don't think they even tested fighting with Kingpin, just against him in the couple of PvEs he's featured in.

Vhailorx

Milk Jugz said:

Well apparently I'm in the minority but..... I like his rework..... One thing with Peggy boosted also, I can spec her 5/5/3, get the most out of her red and yellow, while still having the stun and CDs blue generates. Then fire KPs black for AoE, removes Peggy's tiles but does more damage for each, than they would if let resolved, and I don't have to hope the AI doesn't match them away or wait until I can down one to fire it. Or have that cascade when I'm close to downing one and firing it, but that cascade prematurely downs the first one. I'm not hating him, I think he is more useful now...... 

Wait, you like his rework because it allows you to play another character with a less-than-optimal build AND lock down another team slot with a KP's worthless butt just to  proc his expensive black?  not to be rude, but bwhahahahahahaha!


KP's rework is a complete waste of dev time.  He wasn't top tier, but there were at least a handful of 4*s that deserved work before KP (new fantastic, new carnage, new mordo, fury, xfw).  But I will concede that KP was long in the tooth and needed a buff if he was going to compete with the new gen 4*s).  So I will give demi a pass for focusing on him. 

But then the actual changes they made were just awful.  Taking his best offensive power and rendering it so much harder to use in exchange for damage that still isn't close to top tier?!  Just madness.  3* spidey's new yellow is hard to use to too, but at least if you get it off you are doing among the best single target damage in 3* land.  KP black now requires more ap AND a CD on the board to do a bit more damage.  And it makes playing KP with CD heavy teammates much riskier, since he can eat a whole bunch of them at random if you aren't careful, all in service of a mediocre aoe?  just really hard to fathom.  (and yes they buffed his yellow, but his internal tension is greater now since he can quickly eat half of the value of his yellow if you aren't careful).

bigsmooth

He's not really more powerful than he was before - you could actually argue that he's less powerful in some ways - and he's not really fun to use any more.
Most of their reworks lately have been quite good, but I'd say this one was unsuccessful.

JarvisJackrabbit

KP's Crash is coming up next after Elektra's. It should be interesting to use him in a one-on-one match.

D2thePool

Jaedenkaal said:

DesertTortoise said:

 If someone came in that spit out countdowns like crazy, maybe ones you *wanted* to get rid of akin to Kate's black, Kingpin would probably get a bump in power by proxy. As it stands, if you had a character putting out tons of countdown tiles that Kingpin could use for his black, there's so many better ways to use a character that does that. 

There are a number of characters that make CDs worth removing (Looking For Trouble, Imaginaut, Jab, Jab, Cross) , but the trouble is, many of the best cost Black AP too.

I made a list in Kingpin's thread, I think, and the TLDR is: there are two types of CDs that make this power worth something.

The first is CDs that have a while-on-the-board effect, and no expiry effect. Think Small-Time Crooks, Imaginaut, Uncanny Strategist. You can use Wilson's Gambit on those when they have 1 turn remaining, without wasting the AP spent on the CD, or its effects. The trouble is, you still have to keep that other CD alive until you think its worth gambit-ing away.

The second category is CDs that are placed automatically, ideally every turn, at no AP cost to you. Entanglement, That Buzzing Sound, See The Math of It. Everyone With Me could also be good in PVE against goons (you only get 4 out max, so you were going to "lose" those anyways if the enemy fired any powers while 4 were out). The opportunity cost here is relatively low (one turn fewer effects or one turn longer for an effect) and you can use it strategically to remove a CD that's too easy to match away (or not easy enough, as the case may be).

For actually getting off that AOE, though, pretty much your only good choices (in 4* land) other than Everyone With Me are Ants! Ants! Ants! or Countdown for What?. It's still 15 AP for the whole thing (passable for the effect), but at least you can leave the tiles out for a turn or two first for some extra damage, and at 4 or 5 covers you might even have a CD or two left over.

Is everyone forgetting Sentry's green power? 
Or is it that he's a 3* and no-one wants to play with a 3*?

Jaedenkaal

D2thePool said:

Is everyone forgetting Sentry's green power? 
Or is it that he's a 3* and no-one wants to play with a 3*?

I was only referring to 4*s. I did make a list of 3* interactions with Kingpin in his actual details thread, and I did include Sentry.
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/26649/kingpin-wilson-fisk-updated-8-22-17/p13

It's probably the best combo among 3*s for actually getting the AoE poke, but unfortunately Sentry doesn't bring much else to most teams. And it's still a total of 20 AP.

Phaserhawk

So bad. Please revert update

sambrookjm

I still occasionally use him with a couple of 3-stars: Iron Fist and Scarlet Witch.  SW always gives a countdown tile, which feeds IF's purple, which generates black for KP, which he can use to nuke the countdown tile.  Not great by any means, but still decent.

Dayv

You know what would make more sense on his black instead of destroying countdowns?  Increase countdown duration instead.  It makes them more likely to get matched away, but still gives them a chance of getting matched away.  It does open the possibility of being used with characters that want their countdowns extended, but that doesn't seem like the end of the world considering how much it plays against the Coulson/Hawkeye/Captain Marvel/Drax model of wanting countdowns to expire.

Maybe the AoE could do a bit of both: if there are three or more countdowns on the board, destroy one third of them, doing X AoE per countdown destroyed, and increase the duration of all remaining countdowns.  The value of X should be high enough that this is never worse than the single countdown version.

DAZ0273

Well he is just as annoying as before when the AI played him in Strange Sights with his goons - he was firing his black regularly even with the increased cost. So you basically just need Muscles and Maggia Don's as his team...

TPF Alexis

DAZ0273 said:

Well he is just as annoying as before when the AI played him in Strange Sights with his goons - he was firing his black regularly even with the increased cost. So you basically just need Muscles and Maggia Don's as his team...

I was actually just thinking that the real problem with him as a playable Character is that we don't have Maggia Dons to pair him with.

Jaedenkaal

TPF Alexis said:

DAZ0273 said:

Well he is just as annoying as before when the AI played him in Strange Sights with his goons - he was firing his black regularly even with the increased cost. So you basically just need Muscles and Maggia Don's as his team...

I was actually just thinking that the real problem with him as a playable Character is that we don't have Maggia Dons to pair him with.

That's true for a lot of teams. I mean, a Maggia Don is basically 0/0/5 Gambit that also makes a ton of tiles that 
1) makes more AP
2) steals more AP
3) instantly downs you.

TPF Alexis

There are a lot of teams that could use one. Kingpin seems to be the only character who depends on one.

ramoramo86

Dormammu said:

It really makes you wonder what the developer's intentions were on Kingpin.


If it was reason A - they didn't do much (if any) play-testing. If it was reason B, they saw something the player base at large failed to see.

Please name 1 event or any nerf what was tested? The devs are lazy and expect us to do their work for them, with the exception of one pve event (apocalypse) pretty much every event had some sort of bug 

JarvisJackrabbit

Dear devs, please consider this my Christmas wishlist:

Fix Kingpin, XFW, and Thing.

Thank you,
-JJ-

p.s. When I say, "fix," I don't mean the way a cat gets fixed. Kingpin and 4* Wolvie have already been subjected to that procedure.