PvP Etiquette.

beyonderbub

twistmonkey said:

beyonderbub said:

I will join the Lightning round at the beginning and clear all the easy seed teams. I will beat the last seed team using a maxxed champed feature 3* alongside with two 1*s with only one cover. I come back with a half hour left in the round and find several defensive wins and a few juicy retaliation nodes who are loaded with high points and no chance to retaliate against my A teams once I clear them out. 

This is evil ... and I absolutely love it. Will be dropping 2k HP in order to get the required 1* characters to do this too. Quick question though, wouldn't you want to use the loaner 3* in order to get more retals (though you obviously would miss out on def wins)?

I can try that too! More flies with honey...

Defensive wins are just a bonus. Farming retals should be the goal. You're right. But it's just fun  

ammenell

mexus said:

ammenell said:

I will hit you if I get enough points, thats the only criteria for me. 

You're free to hit me! Once or twice or thrice. :)ha, for a moment I forgot the context,  that was confusing.
also, quoting on mobile is annoying. 

Milk Jugz

I hit anyone that I think I can beat worth enough points. Sometimes I notice the same names coming around, I don't care. If you are worth the points each time I will hit you 1, 2, 3 times. It's a Versus game, that's the point.

I'm on Line as well, but just for my alliance chat. I'm in no battle chats or shield check rooms. The only exceptions I make on who I hit are my alliance mates

BoyWonder1914

This argument will never reach a conclusion, because there are several perspectives at play here, based on different play styles, and no one seems to actually care to understand or empathize. 

The people that complain about so called "win trading", cooperation, or truces, somehow fail to realize (or forgot) that this game isn't 100% intuitive. You can't always figure things out on your own, and with alliance mechanics as a pretty well-established aspect of the game at this point, you definitely can't always do things on your own. At some point communication with other players becomes imperative. Being human beings that are working towards similar goals, and clearly mutually enjoying this game, you kind of naturally......ya know.....MAKE FRIENDS. You want to see your friends be successful too, since them being successful takes NOTHING away from your own success. Therefore you definitely don't want to take from them, or make their gaming experience more difficult. So I'm really failing to understand the criticism here for alliance mates not hitting each other unshielded and providing friendly qs for points. Or truces between alliances, or Battle Chat members that aren't in the same alliance, but still don't mind helping others out or teaching them. If it's your own personal choice to not participate in alliances or battle chats, more power to you, but you can't then criticize other people simply for having that support system, and thus being mindful of who they hit because of it. 

On the other hand, people in said alliances and chats sometimes forget that you're still part of a group that is but a small speck in the entirety of the player base. For every one 1 person in your group that won't hit you, there's probably 50 at random places in the world that will. There are quite a lot of people in the world as a whole who push for 700+ points every event, and because of mmr most people eventually get to a point where there are just no other available targets than the same small number of people. "PVP etiquette" isn't a worldwide standard by any means, at this point it is a well forgotten fossil from the time of "cupcakes". Enough players had a mutual understanding of the value of raising points in a slice as a whole, and that a rising tide would raise all ships, friendly or not. As the game continues to get more players, that increases the percentage of people that DON'T come to these forums, and look at these threads. There's always going to be someone willing to double or triple tap you that LEGITIMATELY doesn't know any better, or doesn't care, so it's not worth getting in a huff about. Even with all the people that may have your back, being quick and minimizing your time unshielded is still ultimately the way to go, regardless of the politics. 
---------------------------

Personally, at this point I just climb and hit whoever isn't a friendly in some capacity and worth 40+ points. So yes, I do take the time to look at names and alliances. If I get hit, so be it, because honestly getting hit down means that there's more points to be found on the way up. I still personally avoid doubling, and when I exclusively do 40+ point matches, it's very rare for me to q someone a second time for an amount of points that's still worth hitting. The times that I recall being doubled by someone, I was always shielded by then, so I couldn't retaliate anyway, and I didn't lose points because of it. 

Spudgutter

Close the thread, @BoyWonder1914 pretty much covered all the bases quite well.  

broll

BoyWonder1914 said:

The people that complain about so called "win trading", cooperation, or truces, somehow fail to realize (or forgot) that this game isn't 100% intuitive. You can't always figure things out on your own, and with alliance mechanics as a pretty well-established aspect of the game at this point, you definitely can't always do things on your own. At some point communication with other players becomes imperative. Being human beings that are working towards similar goals, and clearly mutually enjoying this game, you kind of naturally......ya know.....MAKE FRIENDS. 

I haven't forgotten or fail to realize.  I object to the idea that a mode title Versus and often called PvP (Player vs Player) with no group rewards outside the alliance ones is or should be considered a co-op mode.  IMO people are playing the mode in a way it's not intended for and gaining from it in ways that those who don't figure out / join this 100% non-intuitively and not even really part of the game playstyle don't.  I'm not opposed to a co-op mode or co-op pvp mode, but that's not what this mode is supposed to be.  I hope the devs eventually make changes to address some of these concerns, but I don't see that happening for a number or reasons.  

Also you can't say that "You can't always figure things out on your own, and with alliance mechanics as a pretty well-established aspect of the game at this point" is anything close to joining a LINE chat with hundreds of other players to game the system via win trading.  That's like saying a boxing manager having multiple clients that train and help each other to win is the same as 100 boxers agreeing to take turns throwing fights for some mutual gain...  I'm all for alliances coordinating, but an alliance is 20 people, not hundreds.

Spudgutter

broll said:

BoyWonder1914 said:

The people that complain about so called "win trading", cooperation, or truces, somehow fail to realize (or forgot) that this game isn't 100% intuitive. You can't always figure things out on your own, and with alliance mechanics as a pretty well-established aspect of the game at this point, you definitely can't always do things on your own. At some point communication with other players becomes imperative. Being human beings that are working towards similar goals, and clearly mutually enjoying this game, you kind of naturally......ya know.....MAKE FRIENDS. 

I haven't forgotten or fail to realize.  I object to the idea that a mode title Versus and often called PvP (Player vs Player) with no group rewards outside the alliance ones is or should be considered a co-op mode.  IMO people are playing the mode in a way it's not intended for and gaining from it in ways that those who don't figure out / join this 100% non-intuitively and not even really part of the game playstyle don't.  I'm not opposed to a co-op mode or co-op pvp mode, but that's not what this mode is supposed to be.  I hope the devs eventually make changes to address some of these concerns, but I don't see that happening for a number or reasons.  

Also you can't say that "You can't always figure things out on your own, and with alliance mechanics as a pretty well-established aspect of the game at this point" is anything close to join a LINE chat with hundreds of other players to game the system via win trading.  I'm all for alliances coordinating, but an alliance is 20 people, not hundreds.

I think you did the same thing i was going to do, and started a reply after just the first paragraph. Boywonder did a pretty good rebuttal of some of that line of thinking in the next paragraph

broll

Spudgutter said:

I think you did the same thing i was going to do, and started a reply after just the first paragraph. Boywonder did a pretty good rebuttal of some of that line of thinking in the next paragraph

No I read it.  That rebuttal basically says if everyone agreed to it, it would be OK.  I disagree with that sentiment.  I think it's a shady practice that should not be permitted. regardless if 1% of players or if 99.99999% of players do it.  

That being said I'm not really suggesting people doing it should be punished.  I understand why it came about, because PvP is broken/poorly designed and they came together to make it work for them.  That makes sense.  But as a whole I'd much rather the devs fix PvP then try and dance around it with all these out of the game work arounds.

Spudgutter

broll said:

Spudgutter said:

I think you did the same thing i was going to do, and started a reply after just the first paragraph. Boywonder did a pretty good rebuttal of some of that line of thinking in the next paragraph

No I read it.  That rebuttal basically says if everyone agreed to it, it would be OK.  I disagree with that sentiment.  I think it's a shady practice that should not be permitted. regardless if 1% of players or if 99.99999% of players do it.  

That being said I'm not really suggesting people doing it should be punished.  I understand why it came about, because PvP is broken/poorly designed and they came together to make it work for them.  That makes sense.  But as a whole I'd much rather the devs fix PvP then try and dance around it with all these out of the game work arounds.

I think at this point, since this comes up several times a year, the silence from the devs IS their answer.  Mixed with getting rid of cupcakes and testing a win based progression idea, they are trying to fix pvp without alienating a large chunk of a loyal base.  His response showed quite well that there are several gray areas in the whole thing.

Even though you may disagree with someone else's conclusion, there is a very reasonable explanation as to how they came about it.  And vice versa.

Sm0keyJ0e

OJSP said:

Bowgentle said:

Sm0keyJ0e said:

What means it to "snipe"?

/thread.

This is where this was headed from the start, but of course we needed another one of these.

How is one poster being flagged while the one who asked the question, who knows what sniping means and most likely just wanted to troll, isn't?

People, if you don't really know who the poster is and how they play Versus, it's better not to react to the posts. All these post flaggings are really embarrassing. While the person who intended to troll, is rolling on the floor laughing.

What means it to "troll"?

Pants1000

This thread is getting off track, but I'll give my thoughts on the original post.

I usually try to avoid hitting the same person repeatedly, but I don't write down names, and if the person is an easy target for a lot of points, I'll hit twice.  

The other day I was around 500 points and got an easy match worth 65 points.  I hit him, and right after got him again for 60 points.  This time I let him sit and attacked someone else first.  If he was shield hopping, this would give him time to shield.  I checked my leaderboard in case he was in the same bracket, but he wasn't, so I couldn't easily tell if he shielded.  10 minutes later I went ahead and hit him the 2nd time.  Then I got him again for 58 points.  I waited longer this time, about 30 minutes, then hit a 3rd time.  

I kind of felt bad, but I'm fairly sure he had shielded at that point, and if not he would have been crushed by others, because you just can't sit around 900 points with a loaner 3* on the last day of the event for long.

I'm sure some people will think I shouldn't have hit him again, and others will say I shouldn't have bothered giving him time to shield.  There is no consensus.  I don't like getting hit 4 times in a row by the same person, but I'm fine with others hitting me the same way I hit.

BoyWonder1914

broll said:

BoyWonder1914 said:

The people that complain about so called "win trading", cooperation, or truces, somehow fail to realize (or forgot) that this game isn't 100% intuitive. You can't always figure things out on your own, and with alliance mechanics as a pretty well-established aspect of the game at this point, you definitely can't always do things on your own. At some point communication with other players becomes imperative. Being human beings that are working towards similar goals, and clearly mutually enjoying this game, you kind of naturally......ya know.....MAKE FRIENDS. 

I haven't forgotten or fail to realize.  I object to the idea that a mode title Versus and often called PvP (Player vs Player) with no group rewards outside the alliance ones is or should be considered a co-op mode.  IMO people are playing the mode in a way it's not intended for and gaining from it in ways that those who don't figure out / join this 100% non-intuitively and not even really part of the game playstyle don't.  I'm not opposed to a co-op mode or co-op pvp mode, but that's not what this mode is supposed to be.  I hope the devs eventually make changes to address some of these concerns, but I don't see that happening for a number or reasons.  

Also you can't say that "You can't always figure things out on your own, and with alliance mechanics as a pretty well-established aspect of the game at this point" is anything close to joining a LINE chat with hundreds of other players to game the system via win trading.  That's like saying a boxing manager having multiple clients that train and help each other to win is the same as 100 boxers agreeing to take turns throwing fights for some mutual gain...  I'm all for alliances coordinating, but an alliance is 20 people, not hundreds.

What exactly gives you the clairvoyance to say what the game mode is "supposed" to be? At the end of the day only the devs TRULY know that, and I honestly feel like if they had a serious problem with people coordinating with each other, they would have taken measures to change certain mechanics of PVP. 

Also, you seem to have a misconception of how LINE groups actually work. If your definition of "throwing a fight" means intentionally losing to someone for that person's benefit, then that practice is MUCH more commonplace in alliance battle chats than one that has as you say, "hundreds" of members. The main draw of a LINE group is for friendly qs, not intentionally climbing and dumping off of each other. If I'm simply letting people know when I'm climbing and shielding, or floating so that they can q me, that's not throwing fights. At the end of the day its still up to that person beat my team with their own skill. It's still up to that person to climb on their own to a level where they even can q me. Someone being able to score higher because they were able to find my q and get out of "q hell" isn't "win trading". Is it an advantage? Absolutely. Is it an advantage that's exclusive me only? Absolutely not. But more importantly, it isn't "gaming the system" because someone figured out a way past a limitation. You don't consider someone who hoards tokens/CP to get precisely want they want/increase their odds to be "gaming" RNG, or 5-star rosters that use 1-star trap cakes to attract hits from weaker rosters to be "gaming" MMR, so I'm not sure what makes communication with friendly people to help find yourself better q's when you're stuck is worthy of the term. Be mad at the Devs for giving us lemons, don't be mad at us for making a pitcher of lemonade that EVERYONE can drink from. Your refusal to partake is a personal decision, and no one faults you or criticizes you for doing so. However, I've banged my head against the wall of the 700-800 zone of not being able to find good high-point qs enough to not want to keep subjecting myself to the torture. 

Beer40

My daddy said not to hit women. So I don't. Daddy's right, you know. But there weren't computers when Daddy told me this. So Daddy didn't know about "gamer tags" and some such. You don't know if its men or women you're hitting. Daddy probably wouldn't have approved of this nonsense. Plus, nowadays, you've got men turning into women and women turning into men! I don't even want to ask Daddy what I'm supposed to do in that situation.

I forgot my point...

Maceo511

Sm0keyJ0e said:

OJSP said:

Bowgentle said:

Sm0keyJ0e said:

What means it to "snipe"?

/thread.

This is where this was headed from the start, but of course we needed another one of these.

How is one poster being flagged while the one who asked the question, who knows what sniping means and most likely just wanted to troll, isn't?

People, if you don't really know who the poster is and how they play Versus, it's better not to react to the posts. All these post flaggings are really embarrassing. While the person who intended to troll, is rolling on the floor laughing.

What means it to "troll"?

According to Wikipedia;  "Trolling is a method of fishing where one or more fishing lines, baited with lures or bait fish, are drawn through the water. "

I think that's what he meant.  Maybe there's a fishing event?

Ducky

***Keep this thread on topic and civil without trolling each other or it will be closed. Thanks!

DyingLegend

Here is my tactic for when i really really want a 4 star;

hit who every whenever the first day , get to 750-800. I used to check roster but meh

Shield 24h
Hit who ever is easiest for 2-3 quick wins ( depending on health pool and boosted 4s) 8h shield as some teams may be traps, 8h is sometimes overkill but like i said if i really want that 4 star i dont care. .
AT this point i should be around 870-890 as i dont fight teams below 30 points.Queue up an easy win to hit 900 before shield ends, get the 4 star, quit event as i dont care about placement rewards.

I stopped caring about who I hit, but I know when to stop when i accumulated enough aggro. In the end its PVP and i need the rewards to better my roster and if i gotta go through your roster 3 or four times then so be it.

For events that have 4stars i dont care about.

650 and done on the last day for fast point climbs.

tiomono

BoyWonder1914 said:

broll said:

BoyWonder1914 said:

The people that complain about so called "win trading", cooperation, or truces, somehow fail to realize (or forgot) that this game isn't 100% intuitive. You can't always figure things out on your own, and with alliance mechanics as a pretty well-established aspect of the game at this point, you definitely can't always do things on your own. At some point communication with other players becomes imperative. Being human beings that are working towards similar goals, and clearly mutually enjoying this game, you kind of naturally......ya know.....MAKE FRIENDS. 

I haven't forgotten or fail to realize.  I object to the idea that a mode title Versus and often called PvP (Player vs Player) with no group rewards outside the alliance ones is or should be considered a co-op mode.  IMO people are playing the mode in a way it's not intended for and gaining from it in ways that those who don't figure out / join this 100% non-intuitively and not even really part of the game playstyle don't.  I'm not opposed to a co-op mode or co-op pvp mode, but that's not what this mode is supposed to be.  I hope the devs eventually make changes to address some of these concerns, but I don't see that happening for a number or reasons.  

Also you can't say that "You can't always figure things out on your own, and with alliance mechanics as a pretty well-established aspect of the game at this point" is anything close to joining a LINE chat with hundreds of other players to game the system via win trading.  That's like saying a boxing manager having multiple clients that train and help each other to win is the same as 100 boxers agreeing to take turns throwing fights for some mutual gain...  I'm all for alliances coordinating, but an alliance is 20 people, not hundreds.

What exactly gives you the clairvoyance to say what the game mode is "supposed" to be? At the end of the day only the devs TRULY know that, and I honestly feel like if they had a serious problem with people coordinating with each other, they would have taken measures to change certain mechanics of PVP. 

It's not "clairvoyant" to say a game mode labeled versus is competition between yourself and the person you attack.

Yes only the devs "truly" know. Bit the devs also allow you to hit someone as many times as they will appear for you. You don't finish a match with a victory banner with an asterisk behind it telling you you are a jerk for triple hitting someone.

That is a made up code of conduct from outside of the game mechanics. And if you do it to the wrong person or alliance you get popped hard by multiple people from many alliances. 

So I agree with brolls view. He is not saying punish people that use line. He is not saying they shouldn't use line. He even understands why it's there. 

It's a game mode that has you attacking other people for your own benefit. So if the game lets you do it do not be mad at people that do it.

mpqr7

I try to hit each person only once per climb. I don't like being double-tapped (or more) myself, so I generally don't do it to others, unless I'm sure they've shielded.

And whenever I see a grill, I always wait around 10+ minutes before going for it.

I am friends with a large number of alliances, so I only hit people outside those alliances. Depending on my availability for hops and such, I generally score between 700 and 1200+ points. Hoarding CP and LT is slow, but we'll all get there soon enough! I've made it to five championed 5*s so far, so give it another few years, and I might get to six!! I don't even barely use my championed Silver Surfer, but he's fun in PVE when I give him a shot.

evade420

you should also consider looking at your targets roster and alliance affiliation.
because you also don't want to be hitting everyone in a single alliance , you will get lots of attention that way.
and you also dont want to eat a hardcore player's "B" team that they are likely setting up for someone else before they shield.
On a big point target you could also check the top leader board to see if they are in your bracket and shielded or not.
but basically don't go into a panic and start sniping people left right and center , you're going  to piss someone off eventually

Daiches

tiomono said:

BoyWonder1914 said:

broll said:

BoyWonder1914 said:

That is a made up code of conduct from outside of the game mechanics. And if you do it to the wrong person or alliance you get popped hard by multiple people from many alliances. 

So I agree with brolls view. He is not saying punish people that use line. He is not saying they shouldn't use line. He even understands why it's there. 

It's a game mode that has you attacking other people for your own benefit. So if the game lets you do it do not be mad at people that do it.

If you would be playing for your own benefit, you would hit players when they are shielded, because that way more points enter the shard. And it would be a much easier climb for you. But it would also require a grasp of how pvp points building works. Cooperation is needed to get people to 1200. The more cooperate, the easier it is for the entire shard. Now YOU don't have to participate in cooperation, but know that if people weren't, you wouldn't even be able to get there if you wanted too. That's the sad truth for you. It may be named versus, but it's players versus the system.