I've found myself looking forward to the new PVP system.

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Comments

  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    @Lucifier

    But, according to the developers, PVE is not what that's called. It's called Story mode. PVE is a user created term. Story mode pits you against the AI beat all the matches 5 times earn all the rewards. Your score at the end is put up against the rest of the people playing and you earn more rewards based on how many people you scored higher than. The way the system is set up, the faster you clear the more points you can earn.

    In Versus you have to beat other users teams to progress, if you can't beat them or beat them fast enough your roster is not strong enough to earn the rewards you're aiming for. Keep at it, it will get better. Versus is the harder mode to play and earn rewards.
  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll said:
    revskip said:
    If some people have made it work for them then it works.  
    ...umm... let me stop you right there.  So if a car company sells a car that has a gas tank that has hole in it (and I'm not talking one car, it's a production defect on every car in the model) sure people could make it work by patching the hole or only filling the tank 1/4 of the way and filling up more, but would you call that a good and working product?  Of course not, that's ludicrous.  But that's what we have here.
    Except in this case the issue isn't something wrong with the system itself.  The issue is that people expect to get these rewards without spending HP on shields and ISO on skips.  

    If the people who are having issues with the current system availed themselves of those two options they would be getting the rewards.  That they choose not to is not a flaw in the system but rather a flaw in their playstyle.  
  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
    Reecoh said:

    PVP is not true PVP in my mind b/c it's still you vs. an AI team, so the verses aspect is all about the points.

    I agree with you, and that lead to the problem we got back-stabbed (while we are in the middle of another fight).

    here is an idea for d3go, make PVP really real-time event:

    1- someone want to play pvp, prepare his/her team and team-up or boosters, click a button.
    2- someone else in the world did the same as point 1.
    3- the system will only match you with others players, in the same range (+/- something) of the char you choice to play with.
    4- and you both will play in real-time (they can put for example 10 seconds max for each move or 20 seconds) and i believe this will be more fair and could be more fun.
    5- it will be no back-stabbing, no problem you leave the game for hours and come back, and it will be more real PVP style.

    well but i think the problem here " no one is going to need use shields "

    the current PVP is not fair, because someone less roaster strength than me is dragging me down, in real PVP i can beat him/her, I can progress, but while i am doing that i am getting back-stabbed.

    the current PVP have a big gap, between the point you can reach and the point will be dragged down if did not used shields, this event i hit 790, before that (i hit 650 and did not used shield, i got dragged down to 307 points).
    big gap between 790 and 307 (and i can do better than 790, actually i did, and i hit a roaster not strong, but in the middle of fight i got attacked, did not even get the 800 reward while i won another fight).

    anyway i am not judging everything in the current PVP, it is fine for competing for placement rewards.
    but overall in the two events PVP and PVE currently we have one real progression reward and 3 competing rewards.
  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
    Milk Jugz said:
    @Lucifier

    But, according to the developers, PVE is not what that's called. It's called Story mode. PVE is a user created term. Story mode pits you against the AI beat all the matches 5 times earn all the rewards. Your score at the end is put up against the rest of the people playing and you earn more rewards based on how many people you scored higher than. The way the system is set up, the faster you clear the more points you can earn.

    In Versus you have to beat other users teams to progress, if you can't beat them or beat them fast enough your roster is not strong enough to earn the rewards you're aiming for. Keep at it, it will get better. Versus is the harder mode to play and earn rewards.
    so you left the whole idea and you are judging about the word PVE. sorry my mistake "story mode" 

    and actually you need to beat most of the matches 6 times for all its own rewards and 7 times or maybe more to get all the leftover points.

    and how about a real time PVP, playing against a real-person.

    bottom line, i think we all agree between Versus and story mode, there are 4 rewards, 3 of them is competing rewards and only one is truly progression reward (don't go down).
  • vaportrail
    vaportrail Posts: 64 Match Maker
    Why can't a new player just walk into EVO and win the Street Fighter 5 tournament against the best in the world?  The same reason everyone can't get the highest rewards in PVP in MPQ, there is a lot to learn about the game.  Just like any other multiplayer game that is worth your time, there is much more depth to it than initially it seems which is what keeps me coming back.  I really hope pvp isn't diluted into a grindfest.

    Not only that but you need to build out your roster to play at a high level in MPQ which you don't have in a fighting game, or fps.  The vets have taken their lumps and learned, but I'm seeing many here just ignore the advice and continue to beat their heads against a wall and then wonder why it's not working... 
  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
    bottom line, i think we all agree between Versus and story mode, there are 4 rewards, 3 of them is competing rewards and only one is truly progression reward (don't go down).
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lucifier said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    @Lucifier

    But, according to the developers, PVE is not what that's called. It's called Story mode. PVE is a user created term. Story mode pits you against the AI beat all the matches 5 times earn all the rewards. Your score at the end is put up against the rest of the people playing and you earn more rewards based on how many people you scored higher than. The way the system is set up, the faster you clear the more points you can earn.

    In Versus you have to beat other users teams to progress, if you can't beat them or beat them fast enough your roster is not strong enough to earn the rewards you're aiming for. Keep at it, it will get better. Versus is the harder mode to play and earn rewards.
    so you left the whole idea and you are judging about the word PVE. sorry my mistake "story mode" 

    and actually you need to beat most of the matches 6 times for all its own rewards and 7 times or maybe more to get all the leftover points.

    and how about a real time PVP, playing against a real-person.

    bottom line, i think we all agree between Versus and story mode, there are 4 rewards, 3 of them is competing rewards and only one is truly progression reward (don't go down).
    If your going for placement, then yes, you need to clear all the nodes 7 times as optimally as possible. If you play for progression, as I do mostly, all you need to do is clear every node 5 times and you will earn full progression. That is the official word from the developers, and actually, you don't even need to wait for the points to refresh. You can clear the nodes 5 times at the very beginning of the sub and not play until the next starts or clear them 5 times throughout the 24 hours the sub is active. (This is normal for 90% of subs and nodes, 2-day subs you have 48 hours to clear 5 times and wave nodes I believe require 3 clears, might be 2, cant remember exactly).

    I wasn't leaving the idea, just clarifying your understanding of what the different modes are.

    Story mode= guaranteed progression and competitive placement
    Versus mode= competitive progression and placement

    That difference makes Versus what it is
  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
    Milk Jugz said:

    all you need to do is clear every node 5 times and you will earn full progression.

    Lucifier said:
    and actually you need to beat most of the matches 6 times for all its own rewards

    most of the nodes (except the only one hit node) is either 6 its own rewards (or maybe 4 its own rewards) (not progression rewards not placement rewards).

    so for the 6 rewards node, if you only hit it 5 times, then you are missing one of these rewards/each of this type of node (could be iso, boost, CP, or even token, i don't if there is a different type of rewards). very rarely i believe it gives a cover (could be some special event and probably one hit node).
  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
    plus for the 6 reward node type, if you hit it only 5 times, you will not get the exp, till the you hit it 6 times (and of course we are talking about wining when we hit it), I think it is 10xp per node.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    Lucifier said:
    Milk Jugz said:

    all you need to do is clear every node 5 times and you will earn full progression.

    Lucifier said:
    and actually you need to beat most of the matches 6 times for all its own rewards

    most of the nodes (except the only one hit node) is either 6 its own rewards (or maybe 4 its own rewards) (not progression rewards not placement rewards).

    so for the 6 rewards node, if you only hit it 5 times, then you are missing one of these rewards/each of this type of node (could be iso, boost, CP, or even token, i don't if there is a different type of rewards). very rarely i believe it gives a cover (could be some special event and probably one hit node).
    Ok, I grant you that. Looking at the individual node rewards you need to clear them 6 times and earn the green check. But, as far as progression rewards go, only 5 clears are required. Your next post is true too. You need the 6th clear for the xp. And it is 10 each
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,495 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've played various puzzle quest versions against live opponent many times on the console.  I can tell you unequivocally its the least fun version of the game.  Live play is flawed for many many reasons including:

    1.  time of match making.  (It would take forever to match make in the original version of puzzle quest on xbox live.  even in modern console games like titanfall2, you could be stuck for 30s to a min to make matches.  MMR needs to be instant like it currently is.

    2.  Time lag and stalling.  We already **** about the animations.  I can tell you without a doubt, waiting for a live person to match is infinitely more tedious.

    3.  Psychologically it feels rushed and unfun.  Currently the game is untimed.  I.e. you move as fast as your brain process information.  But in live play,  you move every 10 secs or whatever the timer is.  This might be a subtle distinction but makes a world of difference in how you perceive the fun.


    I would absolutely not participate in a live play format.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Milk Jugz said:
    broll said:
    revskip said:
    If some people have made it work for them then it works.  
    ...umm... let me stop you right there.  So if a car company sells a car that has a gas tank that has hole in it (and I'm not talking one car, it's a production defect on every car in the model) sure people could make it work by patching the hole or only filling the tank 1/4 of the way and filling up more, but would you call that a good and working product?  Of course not, that's ludicrous.  But that's what we have here.
    Apples and oranges, man!! Nobody is patching a hole in the system, nor are they only going a 1/4 of the way!!
    I am.

    I get a few of the early progression prizes - 750 ISO, a couple of tokens, and then I'm out. The rest is too much of a hassle. There are many events where I'll jump in at a slice's start, beat a dozen seed teams, then I'm done. I'd like to compete for placement but don't have a shot at 4-star covers. A 3-star cover, or a couple of elite tokens, aren't worth the time it takes.Eliminating progression prizes and extending placement rewards would interest me greatly.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dormammu said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    broll said:
    revskip said:
    If some people have made it work for them then it works.  
    ...umm... let me stop you right there.  So if a car company sells a car that has a gas tank that has hole in it (and I'm not talking one car, it's a production defect on every car in the model) sure people could make it work by patching the hole or only filling the tank 1/4 of the way and filling up more, but would you call that a good and working product?  Of course not, that's ludicrous.  But that's what we have here.
    Apples and oranges, man!! Nobody is patching a hole in the system, nor are they only going a 1/4 of the way!!
    I am.

    I get a few of the early progression prizes - 750 ISO, a couple of tokens, and then I'm out. The rest is too much of a hassle. There are many events where I'll jump in at a slice's start, beat a dozen seed teams, then I'm done. I'd like to compete for placement but don't have a shot at 4-star covers. A 3-star cover, or a couple of elite tokens, aren't worth the time it takes.Eliminating progression prizes and extending placement rewards would interest me greatly.
    Ok, maybe I worded that badly.

    You're going a quarter of the way because you find it too much of a hassle to adapt to the way the system works. That is not evidence of a bad system, but evidence of an unwillingness to adhere to the way something works.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    Milk Jugz said:
    Dormammu said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    broll said:
    revskip said:
    If some people have made it work for them then it works.  
    ...umm... let me stop you right there.  So if a car company sells a car that has a gas tank that has hole in it (and I'm not talking one car, it's a production defect on every car in the model) sure people could make it work by patching the hole or only filling the tank 1/4 of the way and filling up more, but would you call that a good and working product?  Of course not, that's ludicrous.  But that's what we have here.
    Apples and oranges, man!! Nobody is patching a hole in the system, nor are they only going a 1/4 of the way!!
    I am.

    I get a few of the early progression prizes - 750 ISO, a couple of tokens, and then I'm out. The rest is too much of a hassle. There are many events where I'll jump in at a slice's start, beat a dozen seed teams, then I'm done. I'd like to compete for placement but don't have a shot at 4-star covers. A 3-star cover, or a couple of elite tokens, aren't worth the time it takes.Eliminating progression prizes and extending placement rewards would interest me greatly.
    Ok, maybe I worded that badly.

    You're going a quarter of the way because you find it too much of a hassle to adapt to the way the system works. That is not evidence of a bad system, but evidence of an unwillingness to adhere to the way something works.
    One could argue that the number of people that have come forward, either in favor of the test or to say that they do not enjoy the current version of versus, could be evidence of a bad system.  

    For you and others who have no problem with the current version need to realize that just because you have figured it out and adapted and overcome, the devs see a need for a change.  On principle, i could be persuaded to agree with you and others, there is a path to success, if you can find it.  But what you need to understand is that you are probably the minority(even if as small as a 40/60 minority) and like it or not, that is bad for business for the devs.  The next thing you need to adapt and overcome is how to suceed in the next version of versus.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spudgutter said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    Dormammu said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    broll said:
    revskip said:
    If some people have made it work for them then it works.  
    ...umm... let me stop you right there.  So if a car company sells a car that has a gas tank that has hole in it (and I'm not talking one car, it's a production defect on every car in the model) sure people could make it work by patching the hole or only filling the tank 1/4 of the way and filling up more, but would you call that a good and working product?  Of course not, that's ludicrous.  But that's what we have here.
    Apples and oranges, man!! Nobody is patching a hole in the system, nor are they only going a 1/4 of the way!!
    I am.

    I get a few of the early progression prizes - 750 ISO, a couple of tokens, and then I'm out. The rest is too much of a hassle. There are many events where I'll jump in at a slice's start, beat a dozen seed teams, then I'm done. I'd like to compete for placement but don't have a shot at 4-star covers. A 3-star cover, or a couple of elite tokens, aren't worth the time it takes.Eliminating progression prizes and extending placement rewards would interest me greatly.
    Ok, maybe I worded that badly.

    You're going a quarter of the way because you find it too much of a hassle to adapt to the way the system works. That is not evidence of a bad system, but evidence of an unwillingness to adhere to the way something works.
    One could argue that the number of people that have come forward, either in favor of the test or to say that they do not enjoy the current version of versus, could be evidence of a bad system.  

    For you and others who have no problem with the current version need to realize that just because you have figured it out and adapted and overcome, the devs see a need for a change.  On principle, i could be persuaded to agree with you and others, there is a path to success, if you can find it.  But what you need to understand is that you are probably the minority(even if as small as a 40/60 minority) and like it or not, that is bad for business for the devs.  The next thing you need to adapt and overcome is how to suceed in the next version of versus.
    Unfortunately for me the only thing I would have to adapt to in a win based progression system with the 4* cover at 40 wins is double the effort in Versus for the same rewards...... 
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spudgutter said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    Dormammu said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    broll said:
    revskip said:
    If some people have made it work for them then it works.  
    ...umm... let me stop you right there.  So if a car company sells a car that has a gas tank that has hole in it (and I'm not talking one car, it's a production defect on every car in the model) sure people could make it work by patching the hole or only filling the tank 1/4 of the way and filling up more, but would you call that a good and working product?  Of course not, that's ludicrous.  But that's what we have here.
    Apples and oranges, man!! Nobody is patching a hole in the system, nor are they only going a 1/4 of the way!!
    I am.

    I get a few of the early progression prizes - 750 ISO, a couple of tokens, and then I'm out. The rest is too much of a hassle. There are many events where I'll jump in at a slice's start, beat a dozen seed teams, then I'm done. I'd like to compete for placement but don't have a shot at 4-star covers. A 3-star cover, or a couple of elite tokens, aren't worth the time it takes.Eliminating progression prizes and extending placement rewards would interest me greatly.
    Ok, maybe I worded that badly.

    You're going a quarter of the way because you find it too much of a hassle to adapt to the way the system works. That is not evidence of a bad system, but evidence of an unwillingness to adhere to the way something works.
    One could argue that the number of people that have come forward, either in favor of the test or to say that they do not enjoy the current version of versus, could be evidence of a bad system.  

    Especially when you consider how many posts there have been in favor of the tests / against the current PvP meta on the forums.  The forums are known to be a very small percentage of players but disproportionately vets and the current PvP benefits vets more..  So if even in a place that's mostly vets it's even 50/50 for/against, then most likely when you look at the overall game population it's going to be generally unfavorable for the current system.

    The current system is good for a very small minority, bad for the vast majority.  It should be changed.
  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
     @broll  well said.

    I also remember someone who make MPQ YouTube videos, when the win system tests, i don't remember the exact words, but he said something like "this new system may make me get back to the PVP".

    I am not sure, but might the majority of vets, how rejected the win system, because they removed the 15cp as last progression reward, and put it in the placement reward.

    although we can argue with them, and tell them this is VERSUS, so only who deserve it "best player" should get it.

    so the win base system helped many players to get ONE 4* cover, but not the additional 15CP, which will go to the people who love and "can find a way to work things out with the PVP system"


    also i think if they did not removed the 15cp from progression reward in the win system, that will make much more players like the win system, because even with many 4* chmaped, i think many can not reach 1200, or at least not without using shields
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lucifier said:
     @broll  well said.

    I also remember someone who make MPQ YouTube videos, when the win system tests, i don't remember the exact words, but he said something like "this new system may make me get back to the PVP".

    I am not sure, but might the majority of vets, how rejected the win system, because they removed the 15cp as last progression reward, and put it in the placement reward.

    although we can argue with them, and tell them this is VERSUS, so only who deserve it "best player" should get it.

    so the win base system helped many players to get ONE 4* cover, but not the additional 15CP, which will go to the people who love and "can find a way to work things out with the PVP system"


    also i think if they did not removed the 15cp from progression reward in the win system, that will make much more players like the win system, because even with many 4* chmaped, i think many can not reach 1200, or at least not without using shields
    If anyone said anything about the 15 CP being removed from progression it was only a couple. The biggest issue we have with the win based system, is the extra time and effort required to get the 4* cover. Somewhere on one of the pages in this thread I put my Versus experience out in Ravager Clan. I was able to get the 4* cover and 900+ points in 20 wins, 2 wipes. In the win based system, with the 4* cover at 40 wins, I would need to win twice as many matches for the same rewards. That's double my effort for the same rewards!!!!!
  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
    @Milk Jugz 

    I know, you already mentioned that before

    Unfortunately for me the only thing I would have to adapt to in a win based progression system with the 4* cover at 40 wins is double the effort in Versus for the same rewards...... 

    I will assume now you can not hit 1200, and lets assume with 40 wins 15cp reward, for example 36 wins 4* (or 39 win 4*cover).

    assuming you can not hit 1200 now, would you prefer current system, or 40 win that also give you 15cp reward (in addition to the 10cp reward)?

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