I've found myself looking forward to the new PVP system.

DFiPL

Dormammu said:

PvP is unbelieveably broken in MPQ and the only people defending it are those who heavily benefit from it.

I can't argue. I said as much earlier in this thread. I don't play much PvP and I don't benefit from it. But grinding out more matches for progression prizes is not what I want out of PvP and isn't going to invest me in it. I grind enough in PvE.

Fair. But there are plenty of us who see an opportunity to earn prizes we couldn't reliably earn before, and increased participation means more points in the pool, but also a greater diversity of teams to fight - both of which benefit the people who play PvP for placement.

Having to play more matches to earn the rewards they're used to is not ideal, I agree, and I wouldn't mind seeing the required win checkpoints come down.

But ultimately I think getting more engagement from players like me with the new system will benefit both players like me and those who go for placement. 

Milk Jugz

OK, maybe not my last post......

Still think the scoring works fine as it stands, but I could handle an either/or type system. Where, looking to 900, one could earn the rewards by points or wins. It's the only option that makes it manageable for people that can't get over a certain point threshold (as some pointed out you are still putting in the work). While not making Versus much more work, double in fact for me, for people that can hit 900 before 40 wins. 

A straight win based progression with the 4* at 40 wins will just leave an extremely foul taste in my mouth..... 

Bowgentle

DFiPL said:

Dormammu said:

PvP is unbelieveably broken in MPQ and the only people defending it are those who heavily benefit from it.

I can't argue. I said as much earlier in this thread. I don't play much PvP and I don't benefit from it. But grinding out more matches for progression prizes is not what I want out of PvP and isn't going to invest me in it. I grind enough in PvE.

Fair. But there are plenty of us who see an opportunity to earn prizes we couldn't reliably earn before, and increased participation means more points in the pool, but also a greater diversity of teams to fight - both of which benefit the people who play PvP for placement.

Having to play more matches to earn the rewards they're used to is not ideal, I agree, and I wouldn't mind seeing the required win checkpoints come down.

But ultimately I think getting more engagement from players like me with the new system will benefit both players like me and those who go for placement. 

I'll say it again: Anyone playing PVP for placement is not seeing more points in the pool or a higher diversity of teams to fight.

People playing for T5 in 7 or 8 are seeing 5* rosters until at least 1K.

Except in s2 and s5, I guess.

jamesh

Milk Jugz said:

Alsmir said:

The rockett said:

It blows my mind that non pvp players want the pvp system changed. When you ask them how they play, they almost never use shields, expect to make a straight run to 900 (for this example) and have very few 4*. I mean, what do you except?  So this system should be changed just for you?  
The pve system scaling for 5* was insane. That's why a lot of people were asking for this change and why soft cappers were not happy. They kept their rosters low, specifically 5*, so they could win every event. 
The pvp system is not perfect, but to go to total win count and remove the CPs from progression will not be good.  This will hurt current 4* players that do go for 1200 and get it every event.  I am not say there can't be tweaks, but if total win is the only thing that matters, then the non pvp players will spend less on shields than they do now, if they even spend on shields. 

I can use shields and I've read every piece of advice about PvP. Yet I'm still screwed, because if I want to achieve anyting in current PvPsystem I need to b playing for 2+ years. At 1,5 year I'm just getting few 4* which means I can just dream about 900 points.

So what,  PvP should only work for 4*+ roosters and everyone else can forget about it? Well that blows my mind, how selfish you are.

How selfish are you? Just because those rewards are there doesn't mean you should be able to get them. You're under the impression that it doesn't matter how strong your roster is you should be able to get all the rewards. That's just not true! Do I want the 15 CP at 1200? Tinykitty yeah I do! Is my roster strong enough yet? No. 

This isn't Story mode, it's Versus. When your roster is to the point of contention you'll earn those rewards. 

I don't think I should be able to beat people with monster 5* rosters.  I do think that the game should allow people to make forward progression though.

Imagine you've got a solid 3* roster and are trying to build 4* characters.  Do you think that the current reward structure really makes sense here?  With a roster like that, you may be able to make a top 50 finish for more 3* covers, but the 3* cover progression reward is probably out of reach.  It is probably a stretch to even hit 575 to ear half a 4* cover.  Does that sound like it is worth the effort?

The last test might not have been perfect, but it certainly seemed to encourage a lot more lower level players to actually participate.  That alone seems like an improvement.  If they can tweak things so the high level players don't feel like they're being persecuted, then that'll be even better.

Daredevil217

I'm thinking there's a chance they won't change PVP

1) No survey requesting feedback at all

2) No wins based test this offseason

I really really hope I'm wrong. 

Phumade

Back when 4* where the best chars in the game.  People would throw insane amounts of shields to win HB.  People thought +75 points was a successful hop.

No matter what change gets made,  be prepared to see players thrown insane amounts of resources to win the cover.

You would almost wish that whales could just buy the char outright instead of  building a no man's land of traps and snipes.

I.e. it would be easier for everyone if they could just buy the char instead of competing tooth and nail to win it.

Dragon_Nexus

Daredevil217 said:

I'm thinking there's a chance they won't change PVP

1) No survey requesting feedback at all

2) No wins based test this offseason

I really really hope I'm wrong. 

I think the lack of testing is simply due to the timing of Defenders coming out. They'd want to promote that and pull people in and throwing a test out there in that time would mess things up. Maybe after the next season? Shame we have to wait so long.

jamesh said:

Milk Jugz said:

Alsmir said:

The rockett said:

It blows my mind that non pvp players want the pvp system changed. When you ask them how they play, they almost never use shields, expect to make a straight run to 900 (for this example) and have very few 4*. I mean, what do you except?  So this system should be changed just for you?  
The pve system scaling for 5* was insane. That's why a lot of people were asking for this change and why soft cappers were not happy. They kept their rosters low, specifically 5*, so they could win every event. 
The pvp system is not perfect, but to go to total win count and remove the CPs from progression will not be good.  This will hurt current 4* players that do go for 1200 and get it every event.  I am not say there can't be tweaks, but if total win is the only thing that matters, then the non pvp players will spend less on shields than they do now, if they even spend on shields. 

I can use shields and I've read every piece of advice about PvP. Yet I'm still screwed, because if I want to achieve anyting in current PvPsystem I need to b playing for 2+ years. At 1,5 year I'm just getting few 4* which means I can just dream about 900 points.

So what,  PvP should only work for 4*+ roosters and everyone else can forget about it? Well that blows my mind, how selfish you are.

How selfish are you? Just because those rewards are there doesn't mean you should be able to get them. You're under the impression that it doesn't matter how strong your roster is you should be able to get all the rewards. That's just not true! Do I want the 15 CP at 1200? Tinykitty yeah I do! Is my roster strong enough yet? No. 

This isn't Story mode, it's Versus. When your roster is to the point of contention you'll earn those rewards. 

I don't think I should be able to beat people with monster 5* rosters.  I do think that the game should allow people to make forward progression though.

Imagine you've got a solid 3* roster and are trying to build 4* characters.  Do you think that the current reward structure really makes sense here?  With a roster like that, you may be able to make a top 50 finish for more 3* covers, but the 3* cover progression reward is probably out of reach.  It is probably a stretch to even hit 575 to ear half a 4* cover.  Does that sound like it is worth the effort?

The last test might not have been perfect, but it certainly seemed to encourage a lot more lower level players to actually participate.  That alone seems like an improvement.  If they can tweak things so the high level players don't feel like they're being persecuted, then that'll be even better.

Yeah, I'm in agreement. I think the "Stop feeling entitled to win everything" argument should really only apply to placement. You shouldn't be entitled to come first in every PVP, of course not. But progression...? I don't see anything inherently wrong with having top progression being achievable through work. After all, PvE works that way.

Placement in PvP is terribad. It's in no way a reliable way to build a 4* roster by the time you're at the right clearance level. I think I've maybe won one 4* ever in PvP placement, if even that and I've been here for almost the whole time. So progression is the only way you're going to manage it.

broll

Daredevil217 said:

I'm thinking there's a chance they won't change PVP

1) No survey requesting feedback at all

2) No wins based test this offseason

I really really hope I'm wrong. 

I suspect that this means they are working on a second test that is different (unlike PvE where the second test was mostly the same) so they are taking more time to develop changes for the second test.

Skrofa

broll said:

Daredevil217 said:

I'm thinking there's a chance they won't change PVP

1) No survey requesting feedback at all

2) No wins based test this offseason

I really really hope I'm wrong. 

I suspect that this means they are working on a second test that is different (unlike PvE where the second test was mostly the same) so they are taking more time to develop changes for the second test.

The first pve test was for a "normal" pve. The second was for a new character pve.
Since the first pvp test was in the off season, my guess is the next one will be during a gem season.

This will probably help them gauge player participation better by changing a variable

broll

Skrofa said:

broll said:

Daredevil217 said:

I'm thinking there's a chance they won't change PVP

1) No survey requesting feedback at all

2) No wins based test this offseason

I really really hope I'm wrong. 

I suspect that this means they are working on a second test that is different (unlike PvE where the second test was mostly the same) so they are taking more time to develop changes for the second test.

The first pve test was for a "normal" pve. The second was for a new character pve.
Since the first pvp test was in the off season, my guess is the next one will be during a gem season.

This will probably help them gauge player participation better by changing a variable

Actually I don't think that was officially stated anywhere.  They did however say that the second test was because the first test had a bug with SCL8 level scaling.  It's possible they were making that test a twofer, but it's also possible the new character release was coincidental/not the reason they chose that event.

Evilplayer

I hope they add the new system asap. 

revskip

Evilplayer said:

I hope they add the new system asap. 

I hope that nothing changes.  PVP works as it is.  It just requires that you understand resource management.  You spend some HP on shields and in return receive covers and/or CP.  And all of that is possible with a decent 4* roster in under 30 fights.  

Alternately you don't need to spend any HP and can still get to 575 pretty easily even with a 3* roster if you time your climb correctly.  And in way less fights than the test required.  

Milk Jugz

revskip said:

Evilplayer said:

I hope they add the new system asap. 

I hope that nothing changes.  PVP works as it is.  It just requires that you understand resource management.  You spend some HP on shields and in return receive covers and/or CP.  And all of that is possible with a decent 4* roster in under 30 fights.  

Alternately you don't need to spend any HP and can still get to 575 pretty easily even with a 3* roster if you time your climb correctly.  And in way less fights than the test required.  

See my above posts on my experience in Ravager Clan for proof of these statements. That is my normal experience for most events.

Lucifier

i like the win base system too.

TetsujinOni

Alsmir said:

The rockett said:

It blows my mind that non pvp players want the pvp system changed. When you ask them how they play, they almost never use shields, expect to make a straight run to 900 (for this example) and have very few 4*. I mean, what do you except?  So this system should be changed just for you?  
The pve system scaling for 5* was insane. That's why a lot of people were asking for this change and why soft cappers were not happy. They kept their rosters low, specifically 5*, so they could win every event. 
The pvp system is not perfect, but to go to total win count and remove the CPs from progression will not be good.  This will hurt current 4* players that do go for 1200 and get it every event.  I am not say there can't be tweaks, but if total win is the only thing that matters, then the non pvp players will spend less on shields than they do now, if they even spend on shields. 

I can use shields and I've read every piece of advice about PvP. Yet I'm still screwed, because if I want to achieve anyting in current PvPsystem I need to b playing for 2+ years. At 1,5 year I'm just getting few 4* which means I can just dream about 900 points.

So what,  PvP should only work for 4*+ roosters and everyone else can forget about it? Well that blows my mind, how selfish you are.

I've been 1200ing in PvP since I had a pitiful roster of 3* Iron Man/Vision as my A team. Day 612.

You're just not willing to discover how to get effective at PvP *and then execute*.

I have, and I see no reason that other players couldn't make similar choices of how to engage with PvP and succeed.

So I reject your statement about why you are screwed and conclude it's a choice you're making different than my choices.... Or, *maybe*, RNGesus has cursed your draws so that you really have no effective characters.

But more likely it's your choices.

No sympathy, because I came from further back than you and know it can be done.

Milk Jugz

Dragon_Nexus said:

Daredevil217 said:

I'm thinking there's a chance they won't change PVP

1) No survey requesting feedback at all

2) No wins based test this offseason

I really really hope I'm wrong. 

I think the lack of testing is simply due to the timing of Defenders coming out. They'd want to promote that and pull people in and throwing a test out there in that time would mess things up. Maybe after the next season? Shame we have to wait so long.

jamesh said:

Milk Jugz said:

Alsmir said:

The rockett said:

It blows my mind that non pvp players want the pvp system changed. When you ask them how they play, they almost never use shields, expect to make a straight run to 900 (for this example) and have very few 4*. I mean, what do you except?  So this system should be changed just for you?  
The pve system scaling for 5* was insane. That's why a lot of people were asking for this change and why soft cappers were not happy. They kept their rosters low, specifically 5*, so they could win every event. 
The pvp system is not perfect, but to go to total win count and remove the CPs from progression will not be good.  This will hurt current 4* players that do go for 1200 and get it every event.  I am not say there can't be tweaks, but if total win is the only thing that matters, then the non pvp players will spend less on shields than they do now, if they even spend on shields. 

I can use shields and I've read every piece of advice about PvP. Yet I'm still screwed, because if I want to achieve anyting in current PvPsystem I need to b playing for 2+ years. At 1,5 year I'm just getting few 4* which means I can just dream about 900 points.

So what,  PvP should only work for 4*+ roosters and everyone else can forget about it? Well that blows my mind, how selfish you are.

How selfish are you? Just because those rewards are there doesn't mean you should be able to get them. You're under the impression that it doesn't matter how strong your roster is you should be able to get all the rewards. That's just not true! Do I want the 15 CP at 1200? Tinykitty yeah I do! Is my roster strong enough yet? No. 

This isn't Story mode, it's Versus. When your roster is to the point of contention you'll earn those rewards. 

I don't think I should be able to beat people with monster 5* rosters.  I do think that the game should allow people to make forward progression though.

Imagine you've got a solid 3* roster and are trying to build 4* characters.  Do you think that the current reward structure really makes sense here?  With a roster like that, you may be able to make a top 50 finish for more 3* covers, but the 3* cover progression reward is probably out of reach.  It is probably a stretch to even hit 575 to ear half a 4* cover.  Does that sound like it is worth the effort?

The last test might not have been perfect, but it certainly seemed to encourage a lot more lower level players to actually participate.  That alone seems like an improvement.  If they can tweak things so the high level players don't feel like they're being persecuted, then that'll be even better.

Yeah, I'm in agreement. I think the "Stop feeling entitled to win everything" argument should really only apply to placement. You shouldn't be entitled to come first in every PVP, of course not. But progression...? I don't see anything inherently wrong with having top progression being achievable through work. After all, PvE works that way.

Placement in PvP is terribad. It's in no way a reliable way to build a 4* roster by the time you're at the right clearance level. I think I've maybe won one 4* ever in PvP placement, if even that and I've been here for almost the whole time. So progression is the only way you're going to manage it.

I put in bold the inherent flaw in your thinking. This isn't Story mode we are talking about.....

Lucifier

TetsujinOni said:

I've been 1200ing in PvP since I had a pitiful roster of 3* Iron Man/Vision as my A team. Day 612.

You're just not willing to discover how to get effective at PvP *and then execute*.

day 612, when was that, was many players have 5* or 4* char at that time? (i know 3* should not see 5* in pvp).

I am newbie to the game i think day 118 now, have about 12 or 13 3* champed still highest one level 174. (also highest) char

only one time till now i hit 800.

now we i get close to 700 points, i start see 4* char with over 20k health.

how can i go anymore with only simple 3* char champed? and even when i can go a bit more, i get hit and bring down by much.

few days ago, last hour before the event end (i was shielded with over 728 point), and i try to find another opponent to hit, i check i see 4* team high health too, skip check again the same, i think i skip like 15 or 20 times, all most likely i will lose in the fight.


how it is possible to hit 1200 now (this day) i don't know, and this is not just my opinion, i was talking to a alliance leader (who have many 4* champed) and asked him if possible to me to hit 900 (he says difficult and you will spend so much on shielding).

do you think it is still possible to hit 1200 with 3* champed?

TetsujinOni

Lucifier said:

TetsujinOni said:

I've been 1200ing in PvP since I had a pitiful roster of 3* Iron Man/Vision as my A team. Day 612.

You're just not willing to discover how to get effective at PvP *and then execute*.

day 612, when was that, was many players have 5* or 4* char at that time? (i know 3* should not see 5* in pvp).

I am newbie to the game i think day 118 now, have about 12 or 13 3* champed still highest one level 174. (also highest) char

only one time till now i hit 800.

now we i get close to 700 points, i start see 4* char with over 20k health.

how can i go anymore with only simple 3* char champed? and even when i can go a bit more, i get hit and bring down by much.

few days ago, last hour before the event end (i was shielded with over 728 point), and i try to find another opponent to hit, i check i see 4* team high health too, skip check again the same, i think i skip like 15 or 20 times, all most likely i will lose in the fight.


how it is possible to hit 1200 now (this day) i don't know, and this is not just my opinion, i was talking to a alliance leader (who have many 4* champed) and asked him if possible to me to hit 900 (he says difficult and you will spend so much on shielding).

do you think it is still possible to hit 1200 with 3* champed?

I am day 612 now, it was about 390 days ago that I started being able to hit 1300 regularly (it was 1300 not 1200 for the 25CP all-in-one-lump  at that point). 

Based on the tighter MMR, it is *easier* to have appropriate targets, but *harder* because those who don't enjoy getting in the scrum eject early at 575.

It seems to me that the 10 CP at 575 was an error and has harmed the PvP system by encouraging early exit from point generation.

Lucifier

so it is not possible now, right?

i am just asking to know what should i do to get more progression rewards, i would love to hit 900 or at least 800, without spending money? if you think it is possible, i would love your advice about how to do it?

Milk Jugz

jamesh said:

Milk Jugz said:

Alsmir said:

The rockett said:

It blows my mind that non pvp players want the pvp system changed. When you ask them how they play, they almost never use shields, expect to make a straight run to 900 (for this example) and have very few 4*. I mean, what do you except?  So this system should be changed just for you?  
The pve system scaling for 5* was insane. That's why a lot of people were asking for this change and why soft cappers were not happy. They kept their rosters low, specifically 5*, so they could win every event. 
The pvp system is not perfect, but to go to total win count and remove the CPs from progression will not be good.  This will hurt current 4* players that do go for 1200 and get it every event.  I am not say there can't be tweaks, but if total win is the only thing that matters, then the non pvp players will spend less on shields than they do now, if they even spend on shields. 

I can use shields and I've read every piece of advice about PvP. Yet I'm still screwed, because if I want to achieve anyting in current PvPsystem I need to b playing for 2+ years. At 1,5 year I'm just getting few 4* which means I can just dream about 900 points.

So what,  PvP should only work for 4*+ roosters and everyone else can forget about it? Well that blows my mind, how selfish you are.

How selfish are you? Just because those rewards are there doesn't mean you should be able to get them. You're under the impression that it doesn't matter how strong your roster is you should be able to get all the rewards. That's just not true! Do I want the 15 CP at 1200? Tinykitty yeah I do! Is my roster strong enough yet? No. 

This isn't Story mode, it's Versus. When your roster is to the point of contention you'll earn those rewards. 

I don't think I should be able to beat people with monster 5* rosters.  I do think that the game should allow people to make forward progression though.

Imagine you've got a solid 3* roster and are trying to build 4* characters.  Do you think that the current reward structure really makes sense here?  With a roster like that, you may be able to make a top 50 finish for more 3* covers, but the 3* cover progression reward is probably out of reach.  It is probably a stretch to even hit 575 to ear half a 4* cover.  Does that sound like it is worth the effort?

The last test might not have been perfect, but it certainly seemed to encourage a lot more lower level players to actually participate.  That alone seems like an improvement.  If they can tweak things so the high level players don't feel like they're being persecuted, then that'll be even better.

I'll certainly agree with you that the 3* cover at 800 is out of reach for most 3* rosters. Why it is there and not the 10 CP I cannot answer. Those two should be swapped around, or I said in another discussion, put the 3* @ 575, 10 CP @ 725, and 50 HP @ 800. That would encourage more people to keep playing to the CP without making it too high, IMO. I think most of the problem people with less developed rosters face trying to get past 575, is so many people go 575 and out. Even people with the roster strength to go farther stop. If more people were encouraged to go higher then there would be more points available in each slice, making an easier climb for everyone.

But, as I and others have said, this is Versus, not Story, those rewards should not be handed out just because you beat a whole bunch of people (or the same one or two) with lesser rosters than you. Now I don't beat better or equivalent rosters on my entire climb to 900, but for the most part it is at minimum equivalent. Maybe 3-5 wins I get are against inferior rosters.

Making Versus another grind to 40 makes it the same as Story mode, I like the different aspect. Anyone that plays Call of Duty knows you can go into campaign mode and shred the AI, it's easy- even on the hardest difficulties you can still rip it apart. But, flip over to online deathmatch. You're gonna start at level 1 with all the tinykitty equipment, but you're thrust into battles with people way higher that have unlocked all the goodies and can take you out with one shot, jumping, from 1000 yards away. You'll earn experience, level yourself up, and if you really love the game one day you'll be the guy with all the goodies, taking out the newb with one shot, jumping, from 1000 yards away. Have you ever called Treyarch and told them that online deathmatch wasn't fair because these guys had all the good stuff and you can't earn it fast enough or beat them?!?! What would they say? Keep playing, perhaps......