You tackled vaulting! Now can we discuss the iso shortage?

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Comments

  • Ruinate
    Ruinate Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
    revskip said:
    Starfury said:
    sh81 said:

    Though, I agree with you completely, the frustration factor is very real.  And its a fine line this game treads with varied results, between challenging and engaging, and frustrating and punishing.
    I'm old. I miss the times where games tried to be fun to get you to buy them.

    Now they act like a pusher, trying to keep you on the hook.
    They still make those games, some on console some on PC.  None of them are free to play where a big part of the model is creating frustrating chokes points that induce people to spend.  
    League of Legends.  Biggest game in the world (not just freetoplay) with the best business model ever.

    No purchasing power
    Character balance every patch
    Character updates
    Graphical updates
    Huge money reinvested into the game itself and e-sport aspect of it.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,967 Chairperson of the Boards
    mckauhu said:
    There is no iso shortage if you just focus on the characters you want to level up, not all of them.
    I want to level them all. But thank you for the sage wisdom.
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    Ruinate said:
    revskip said:
    Starfury said:
    sh81 said:

    Though, I agree with you completely, the frustration factor is very real.  And its a fine line this game treads with varied results, between challenging and engaging, and frustrating and punishing.
    I'm old. I miss the times where games tried to be fun to get you to buy them.

    Now they act like a pusher, trying to keep you on the hook.
    They still make those games, some on console some on PC.  None of them are free to play where a big part of the model is creating frustrating chokes points that induce people to spend.  
    League of Legends.  Biggest game in the world (not just freetoplay) with the best business model ever.

    No purchasing power
    Character balance every patch
    Character updates
    Graphical updates
    Huge money reinvested into the game itself and e-sport aspect of it.
    Yeah, unfortunately, you can only survive with this kind of business model if you're the biggest game on the block.

    Everyone else goes bust or whale-hunting.
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    Daredevil217 said:
    mckauhu said:
    There is no iso shortage if you just focus on the characters you want to level up, not all of them.
    I want to level them all. But thank you for the sage wisdom.

    You joke, but it is solid advice. Lower your expectations and you'll never be disappointed. Not saying I couldn't use more iso, but it's not a shortage for me. Choosing which character to level is a part of the game at every level. I want to level them all as well, but I'll do that eventually.  Right now It's more of a waste to champ Ghost Rider than it is to sell his 14th cover.

    You've hoarded for since vaulting started? I feel like you were hurting yourself for no reason. I don't hoard because it slows me down. I do need tons of iso, but opening tokens for champ rewards and xp gets me that iso faster. As divisive as it was, vaulting worked out well for me. It let me make great progress on new characters, then it changed once I almost had them all so I can go back to focusing on older ones. I only had Peggy champed when it hit. I ended up champing 12 latest and 3 vaulted since then. In that time I covered a bunch of vaulted 4*s as well. So I do need probably 3 million iso, but I prioritize keeping up with the releases and trying to get all 12 champed.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,967 Chairperson of the Boards
    Straycat said:

    You've hoarded for since vaulting started? I feel like you were hurting yourself for no reason. 
    I've hoarded because opening all of those tokens and spending all that CP when I don't have the Iso to champ someone is downright dumb. I have THIRTEEN people with 11, 12 or 13 covers sitting at either level 70 (default) or 140 (my crash level).  Why get more of their covers if I can't champ them?

    Right now Fury is one of my 13-cover toons with one on the vine and a champ level coming from my next 3* Widow cover. Why not champ him if my goal is to do them all eventually?

    After that I could open tokens finally!  Except Mordo (a 12-cover guy) is the next PVE progression/placement character. There's a good shot I get him to 14 (or more covers).  So as soon as Fury is champed I'll have 0 iso and have to save up for Mordo.

    Then I can open tokens... except it'll be time to replenish the 2 farm. By that point one of my other 13 characters at or near 13 covers will have likely gotten an influx of covers making them the next champ. 

    I already have Peggy, Carol, Medusa, Jean, Wasp, Blade, Buster, Grocket, Punisher, Star-Lord, Pool, Poole, Nova, Riri, Miles and 10 others champed. Why not let fate decide who I champ next to minimize waste?
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    sh81 said:
    Thats the point of "if".  It wasnt a universal statement.

    It was saying if you target characters, then you dont suffer shortage.  Which I think is fair.

    I took it a step further to show how I see it in practice, and how it inevitably leads to hoarding - if you want to waste as little as possible resource.

    I suppose if you follow my example, there is nothing to say you cannot cover all.  Just that you should do it one at a time.
    Your example pretty closely matches how I've been building my roster.  It is a pretty good plan to make sure all of your in-game assets (or as much as possible) are maintained in a durable form (i.e. not going to expire in a fortnight).

    From my experience, early on you'll be able to spend all or most of your legendary tokens and CP you acquire between stops when you're saving up iso to champ the latest character you've got 14 covers for.  But as you go, all your other characters get closer and closer to 13 covers, so the number of tokens you open before stopping for more iso drops fairly fast.  It's at this point that I'd describe the the situation as an iso shortage.

    It's true that once you get past the half-way point, more and more tokens should convert to champion levels instead of reasons to stop for iso.  But with the continual release of new characters, that goal keeps moving further away.  Even if you're earning iso faster than the new character releases, its going to feel like running the wrong way up an escalator: it's a lot of effort with small results, and if you stop you'll end up going backwards.  And the prices for purchasing iso mean it isn't even economical to buy your way out of the problem for most people.
  • uuddlrlr
    uuddlrlr Posts: 93 Match Maker
    There's an ISO shortage? Help this casual player understand how this can happen; I would think that if someone is playing competitively enough to get so many covers that they're loaded with characters to level up, they're probably playing enough to accumulate tons of ISO, no?

    Also, has there been any talks to bring back buying Standard Tokens with ISO? I need a place to dump my ISO... even a wasteful one will do!
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    uuddlrlr said:
    There's an ISO shortage? Help this casual player understand how this can happen; I would think that if someone is playing competitively enough to get so many covers that they're loaded with characters to level up, they're probably playing enough to accumulate tons of ISO, no?

    Also, has there been any talks to bring back buying Standard Tokens with ISO? I need a place to dump my ISO... even a wasteful one will do!
    Roster more characters and you'll have a place for your iso.... 
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    uuddlrlr said:
    There's an ISO shortage? Help this casual player understand how this can happen; I would think that if someone is playing competitively enough to get so many covers that they're loaded with characters to level up, they're probably playing enough to accumulate tons of ISO, no?

    Also, has there been any talks to bring back buying Standard Tokens with ISO? I need a place to dump my ISO... even a wasteful one will do!
    The issue is that ISO costs seem to get exponentially higher. For instance, I've got two 4*s sitting at 250 with 13 covers. To take them to 270 is 78,937, plus 12,500 to champ. That final level for one character costs more than taking a 2* from Level 15 to Level 94, plus the 5K ISO to champ. If I'm not mistaken, the last two levels for a 4* (Level 229 to Level 270) cost more than taking a 3* from Level 40 to Level 166. It adds up pretty quickly.
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    Daredevil217 said:
    I've hoarded because opening all of those tokens and spending all that CP when I don't have the Iso to champ someone is downright dumb. I have THIRTEEN people with 11, 12 or 13 covers sitting at either level 70 (default) or 140 (my crash level).  Why get more of their covers if I can't champ them?

    Right now Fury is one of my 13-cover toons with one on the vine and a champ level coming from my next 3* Widow cover. Why not champ him if my goal is to do them all eventually?

    After that I could open tokens finally!  Except Mordo (a 12-cover guy) is the next PVE progression/placement character. There's a good shot I get him to 14 (or more covers).  So as soon as Fury is champed I'll have 0 iso and have to save up for Mordo.

    Then I can open tokens... except it'll be time to replenish the 2 farm. By that point one of my other 13 characters at or near 13 covers will have likely gotten an influx of covers making them the next champ. 

    I already have Peggy, Carol, Medusa, Jean, Wasp, Blade, Buster, Grocket, Punisher, Star-Lord, Pool, Poole, Nova, Riri, Miles and 10 others champed.

    You say why not champ Fury if you're gonna do it eventually, and my argument is why champ Fury now if you're gonna do it eventually. Selling one Fury on the vine would let you keep opening tokens, earning champ rewards, iso, and xp so maybe when GSBW is ready you can champ him then. What is the purpose of champing him now for a LT reward if you aren't gonna use it?

    I have 13 with 11-13 covers too. But I have most of the latest champed so I can keep opening tokens. If I got my 14th Thing, Kingpin, Ghost Rider I would wait until it was about to expire. If nothing else required iso I might champ them, but I wouldn't try that hard to avoid wasting one of their covers.


    Why not let fate decide who I champ next to minimize waste?

    Obviously you can play how you want, but the way you play is creating the iso shortage you are having issues with. And I don't think that it minimizes waste necessarily. You are wasting time by hoarding, and kinda wasting iso by champing a vintage character who isn't that useful. I follow the covers too, but keep opening tokens. If you dislike hoarding, I don't think you need to make yourself miserable to avoid selling a few covers.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,967 Chairperson of the Boards
    Straycat said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    I've hoarded because opening all of those tokens and spending all that CP when I don't have the Iso to champ someone is downright dumb. I have THIRTEEN people with 11, 12 or 13 covers sitting at either level 70 (default) or 140 (my crash level).  Why get more of their covers if I can't champ them?

    Right now Fury is one of my 13-cover toons with one on the vine and a champ level coming from my next 3* Widow cover. Why not champ him if my goal is to do them all eventually?

    After that I could open tokens finally!  Except Mordo (a 12-cover guy) is the next PVE progression/placement character. There's a good shot I get him to 14 (or more covers).  So as soon as Fury is champed I'll have 0 iso and have to save up for Mordo.

    Then I can open tokens... except it'll be time to replenish the 2 farm. By that point one of my other 13 characters at or near 13 covers will have likely gotten an influx of covers making them the next champ. 

    I already have Peggy, Carol, Medusa, Jean, Wasp, Blade, Buster, Grocket, Punisher, Star-Lord, Pool, Poole, Nova, Riri, Miles and 10 others champed.

    You say why not champ Fury if you're gonna do it eventually, and my argument is why champ Fury now if you're gonna do it eventually. Selling one Fury on the vine would let you keep opening tokens, earning champ rewards, iso, and xp so maybe when GSBW is ready you can champ him then. What is the purpose of champing him now for a LT reward if you aren't gonna use it?

    I have 13 with 11-13 covers too. But I have most of the latest champed so I can keep opening tokens. If I got my 14th Thing, Kingpin, Ghost Rider I would wait until it was about to expire. If nothing else required iso I might champ them, but I wouldn't try that hard to avoid wasting one of their covers.


    Why not let fate decide who I champ next to minimize waste?

    Obviously you can play how you want, but the way you play is creating the iso shortage you are having issues with. And I don't think that it minimizes waste necessarily. You are wasting time by hoarding, and kinda wasting iso by champing a vintage character who isn't that useful. I follow the covers too, but keep opening tokens. If you dislike hoarding, I don't think you need to make yourself miserable to avoid selling a few covers.

    I'm not opposed to selling covers. Elektra is on the vine right now about to get sold.  She's at 3/4/5 with a day left. But unfortunately the cover on the vine is a 6th Red.  I'm not spending 120 CP just to save that cover. 

    The reason to chanp Fury is 1) he's on the vine. 2) No one else (sans Elektra) is 3) Champing him vs. most any other character isn't going to move the needle regardless on a team of 25 (26 with Fury) champs.

    I mean yeah I could keep opening until I get a better character to champ, but why?  I'd love Iceman.  He's way better than Fury. But I just use whoever is boosted.  One week it'll be Iceman and if I had him I'd use him. One day it'll be Fury and once I champ him I'll use him. I don't think 1000 iso for selling a 4-cover is worth it at all so will avoid it if I can (Fury), but won't sweat it if I can't (Elektra).

    You act like these resources I'm hoarding are going to expire. They won't. Covers will. That's why we hoard. 


  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    Daredevil217 said:
    I'm not opposed to selling covers. Elektra is on the vine right now about to get sold.  She's at 3/4/5 with a day left. But unfortunately the cover on the vine is a 6th Red.  I'm not spending 120 CP just to save that cover. 

    The reason to chanp Fury is 1) he's on the vine. 2) No one else (sans Elektra) is 3) Champing him vs. most any other character isn't going to move the needle regardless on a team of 25 (26 with Fury) champs.

    I mean yeah I could keep opening until I get a better character to champ, but why?  I'd love Iceman.  He's way better than Fury. But I just use whoever is boosted.  One week it'll be Iceman and if I had him I'd use him. One day it'll be Fury and once I champ him I'll use him. I don't think 1000 iso for selling a 4-cover is worth it at all so will avoid it if I can (Fury), but won't sweat it if I can't (Elektra).

    You act like these resources I'm hoarding are going to expire. They won't. Covers will. That's why we hoard. 


    Hey, you created this topic about needing iso, I'm just telling you how I get by. Its helps that I don't hoard. Easier now that I have most of the latest champed, but I never hoarded when I had a few of the latest waiting to be champed. Not opening tokens slows your iso flow that you need before covers expire. I occasionally had to sell usable covers (dupes don't really count), and I don't feel like it held me back at all. Even now that Riri is pretty good, I don't regret the few covers I sold when my iso was used to champ someone else. She might be 285 instead of 280 right now, but who cares.

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