You tackled vaulting! Now can we discuss the iso shortage?

13

Comments

  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Calnexin said:
    I want more Iso as much as the next player, but every time "need" or "deficit" comes up as a topic of conversation, I say the same thing - it's just a perception.  No one needs to champ every single character.  We just want to.  Having to sell off covers or not spend the shinies rubs us the wrong way because it sucks a lot of the fun out of the collecting aspect of the game, so we get the perception that we're supposed to be matching level cover-to-cover and champing when full.  This simply is not so.  You may choose to delay gratification for long-term efficiency at the sacrifice of short-term happiness.  Or you can enable your hedonism and accept non-optimal play in exchange for voraciously opening every resource you get immediately like it's 12:01 am on Christmas morning.  It's the player's choice.

    Newer players should be behind the curve.  Three-year veterans and big spenders have max-champ 4*s and well developed 5*s because they've put in a lot of effort.  Dumping piles of Iso into the game to make it easier to champ characters devalues their effort and/or expenditure.  The playing field shouldn't be level - it takes time to reach the top.

    As much as I would like more Iso, I do think it's at a decent flow right now.  I can only speak with confidence to my particular position, but utilizing the various game mechanics is allowing me to champ a 4* from lv 70 about every 10-12 days, and earning enough HP to open more than two new slots for every new release.  I'm able to do that without spending (more) real money.  I don't think the Iso crunch is worse for 3* and below - from what I read on the forums they typically have a surplus, and would benefit far more from an hp-generating event.
    I disagree with this for one reason.  The game is designed specifically to make us feel that need/deficit because that's how they sucker us into spending IRL money on a silly phone game about matching tiles.  If no one felt they needed more x the game would start losing money and die.
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    There hasn't been an "ISO shortage" since SHIELD ranks, clearance levels, and intercepts were introduced, in my opinion. You can quite reasonably champion a 4* before a cover expires starting from zero ISO, now. Before those features were introduced it was impossible unless you either bought or played lightning rounds like a fiend.

    They can't open the valve much further without making it possible to get "ahead of the curve," which, as others have pointed out, would cause a lot of the game's revenue to dry up.

    For my part I'm very rarely in a situation anymore where I feel like I have to spend HP to make up an ISO deficit. Right now I'm scrambling a bit as a whole bunch of my 3*s are maxed out and their dupes are hitting full covers at the same time, but I'm still in no danger of actually needing to sell a cover unless I  stop playing for several days.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    Blindman13 said:
    I've been wishing for more ISO for a while, but after reading this thread and thinking about it, the ISO supply is probably right around where the Devs want it.  As long as a player is lacking in a resource, they will keep playing to earn more. If they flooded the market with ISO, the game would get boring.
    I recall back before they introduced Champions having over 200K ISO that I could do nothing with, so I would spend about an hour every few days buying standard covers at 500 ISO each hoping for a needed 3* or the extremely rare 4*  (oh, how I wish I could get that ISO back). The game was very boring at the time because all I had to look forward to was hopefully getting one or two useful covers.
    Now, nearly every cover (2* and higher) is useful, so my roster is constantly evolving.

    For new players HP is at a premium to get roster slots and the ISO flows faster than they can spend.  Once your roster gets over 100 slots, you transition to having all the HP you need, and then you start using all the ISO you get and find yourself wanting more.

    All that said, a double ISO event would provide a good boost to my roster building efforts. I don't know that a full overhaul of the system is needed, but a little shake up every now and then keeps things interesting.
    Well said! I agree with you on this. I also highlighted the part that I felt was important. Throwing a bone to us every once in awhile doesn't seem like it would hurt anything, and would be very much welcome.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    I think VIP is worth it, especially if you're gonna spend the US$2 to get the intercepts. VIP is US$10, so only 8 more and you get 2 LT, 9 CP, 10K ISO, 6 HT, and 700 HP over 28 days. Need less to say it also opens those intercepts. I've been VIP since it started. Everytime you renew it your alliance gets 1 CP, and your heroes get a 25% boost in heal rate, both to revive a downed hero and heal an injured one. Mostly the only money I spend on the game, $10 a month is nearly as nothing as $2.

    I can generate an average of 50K ISO per day. PVE full progression, usually a t20 -t50. PVP to 900-1000, usually a t25, occasionally t10. Sim 2K, no LR. Plus a GOOD alliance where EVERYONE plays EVERYDAY, I think that bonus is overlooked by many people.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,967 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    Milk Jugz said:
    I think VIP is worth it, especially if you're gonna spend the US$2 to get the intercepts. VIP is US$10, so only 8 more and you get 2 LT, 9 CP, 10K ISO, 6 HT, and 700 HP over 28 days. Need less to say it also opens those intercepts. I've been VIP since it started. Everytime you renew it your alliance gets 1 CP, and your heroes get a 25% boost in heal rate, both to revive a downed hero and heal an injured one. Mostly the only money I spend on the game, $10 a month is nearly as nothing as $2.

    I can generate an average of 50K ISO per day. PVE full progression, usually a t20 -t50. PVP to 900-1000, usually a t25, occasionally t10. Sim 2K, no LR. Plus a GOOD alliance where EVERYONE plays EVERYDAY, I think that bonus is overlooked by many people.
    None of those bonuses do much for me. Sitting on a bunch of LT, HP, and CP that I want to open but can't due to iso shortage. I think 5 months- almost a half a year- of intercepts is a much better deal for me than 1 month of VIP for 10 bucks.
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    I'd argue that we have an ISO shortage, even if it doesn't affect majority of forum users.

    The common advice for "how to get enough ISO" seems to be "Get the bonus rewards from spending, play PvE, PvP, LRs". Sure, but I might as well quit my job or cancel any other rl activities to have time for that. The advice usually comes from people who have been playing for years, thus accumulated way more ISO over the time, than someone who for example started 1 year ago or sooner.

    Sounds good, doesn't work. What % of players can actually pull that? Have you not noticed that just hitting the progression in PvE easily puts you in top 100 scores? I get it that in the forums we have mojority of players that treat MPQ really seriously, but that's not the case for the whole player base.


  • SpringSoldier
    SpringSoldier Posts: 265 Mover and Shaker
    I was also one of the suckers that spent a lot of ISO on standard tokens because I had few 4* and I had no idea how much is needed to level them. There was simply nothing better to do with all that ISO at the time and I had no way of knowing what was coming.

    I don't think the shortage is where the game needs to be:
    -ISO is hardly being bought by players, so giving more of it wouldn't affect D3's income significantly, especially since we can't trade currencies or use one to gain the other
    -more ISO for each PVE/PVP node would encourage players to play more, including Lightning Rounds, finishing all PVE nodes and doing some PVP even when a significant gain isn't possible, such as covers or cp
    -not having enough ISO to champ the existing characters, including 2* and 3* (yes, I still have some that aren't champed), means that I'm not that interested in more LT or cp right now, which is something players could buy through VIP
    -there is enough frustration in the game from not having enough hp for rooster spots (which is needed to sell the hp) and from not getting enough covers (which is also needed to keep you playing and spending)
    -the game was working fine back when 3* where the best characters and the ISO was sufficient. Yes, I know the ISO flow increased in the past 1-2 months, but not enough for the expanding 4* tier, which is where a lot of players are right now.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    I think VIP is worth it, especially if you're gonna spend the US$2 to get the intercepts. VIP is US$10, so only 8 more and you get 2 LT, 9 CP, 10K ISO, 6 HT, and 700 HP over 28 days. Need less to say it also opens those intercepts. I've been VIP since it started. Everytime you renew it your alliance gets 1 CP, and your heroes get a 25% boost in heal rate, both to revive a downed hero and heal an injured one. Mostly the only money I spend on the game, $10 a month is nearly as nothing as $2.

    I can generate an average of 50K ISO per day. PVE full progression, usually a t20 -t50. PVP to 900-1000, usually a t25, occasionally t10. Sim 2K, no LR. Plus a GOOD alliance where EVERYONE plays EVERYDAY, I think that bonus is overlooked by many people.
    None of those bonuses do much for me. Sitting on a bunch of LT, HP, and CP that I want to open but can't due to iso shortage. I think 5 months- almost a half a year- of intercepts is a much better deal for me than 1 month of VIP for 10 bucks.
    Well what works for one person doesn't for another I guess. I do like getting that little bonus from VIP every afternoon, whether it's an extra 1k iso that day or 100 HP. More resources are always welcome! 
  • Xenoberyll
    Xenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
    jgomes32 said:
    Agree to some extent. I have only myself to blame for most cases of iso shortage cause i'm bad at hoarding. But in cases like Wasp, Winter Soldier and Miles all being rewarded the same week and they just happen to be among the 4* i have left to champ i'm faced with a decision to drop one from my champ plans (Wasp). 
    Wasp is the best of those three by far. I'd drop WS instead.
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't think the iso shortage is as bad as some make it. Yeah, it's there for casual players.

    Which is why I don't think at the very least having 2 double events a year is a very unreasonable expectation. 

    Good will events like this on their part goes a long way endearing those casuals to stay playing the game.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,759 Chairperson of the Boards
    As far as the game goes I think the bigger issue is covering 5*.  When 5* were introduced if you got 1 cover they were suppose to be useful.  Now you really need to 10+ covers for PVE and 13+ champion levels for PVP.  With the low draw rate. Dilution in classic tokens there needs to be a more reliable way to earn older 5*.  

    For iso ISO I would like to see a increase to the ISO earned based on CL.  If they ever come out with CL 9 I would like to see a increase in ISO rewards on the node level.  Even if every reward went up by 100 ISO the different ways would be huge.
  • mckauhu
    mckauhu Posts: 740 Critical Contributor
    There is no iso shortage if you just focus on the characters you want to level up, not all of them.
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    revskip said:
    Alsmir said:
    I'd argue that we have an ISO shortage, even if it doesn't affect majority of forum users.

    The common advice for "how to get enough ISO" seems to be "Get the bonus rewards from spending, play PvE, PvP, LRs". Sure, but I might as well quit my job or cancel any other rl activities to have time for that. The advice usually comes from people who have been playing for years, thus accumulated way more ISO over the time, than someone who for example started 1 year ago or sooner.

    Sounds good, doesn't work. What % of players can actually pull that? Have you not noticed that just hitting the progression in PvE easily puts you in top 100 scores? I get it that in the forums we have mojority of players that treat MPQ really seriously, but that's not the case for the whole player base.


    Casual play is fine as long as you are okay with casual rewards.  Since casual play rewards far fewer covers the urgency to champ characters is reduced so less ISO isn't really that big of a problem.  

    If you want to move quickly in this game it takes one of two things, either time (~3 hours a day) or money.  Honestly, I'd rather see the time investment shortened than have more ISO given out.  
    Steam suggests that I averaged about 2hrs/day since starting playing last April. I try to hit every PvP to 575, complete DDQ and hit progression in 3/4 PvE.

    50K ISO/day mentioned before sounds like an unreal dream. I top at maybe 35k/day and that's with VIP active.
    My current ISO deficit is about 1,5 mln ISO and that's without counting characters at 12 covers, that may get finished any day now.

    If I need just 31,5k/day to stay even that means 425 days to just get rid of my deficit (hitting just 3,5k above that). I don't even dare yo count how many more days to finish 4* tier that I'm just dipping my toes into.
     
    Edit: Nevermind, math suggests that I will need approx 4500 days to finish 4* tier, so... NO, with 2hrs/day (which is hardly casual), 13+ YEARS to finish 4* tier, while keeping up with new releases (which include 5*) is NOT FINE.
  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,011 Chairperson of the Boards
    Starfury said:
    sh81 said:

    Though, I agree with you completely, the frustration factor is very real.  And its a fine line this game treads with varied results, between challenging and engaging, and frustrating and punishing.
    I'm old. I miss the times where games tried to be fun to get you to buy them.

    Now they act like a pusher, trying to keep you on the hook.
    They still make those games, some on console some on PC.  None of them are free to play where a big part of the model is creating frustrating chokes points that induce people to spend.  
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    Alsmir said:
    revskip said:
    Alsmir said:
    I'd argue that we have an ISO shortage, even if it doesn't affect majority of forum users.

    The common advice for "how to get enough ISO" seems to be "Get the bonus rewards from spending, play PvE, PvP, LRs". Sure, but I might as well quit my job or cancel any other rl activities to have time for that. The advice usually comes from people who have been playing for years, thus accumulated way more ISO over the time, than someone who for example started 1 year ago or sooner.

    Sounds good, doesn't work. What % of players can actually pull that? Have you not noticed that just hitting the progression in PvE easily puts you in top 100 scores? I get it that in the forums we have mojority of players that treat MPQ really seriously, but that's not the case for the whole player base.


    Casual play is fine as long as you are okay with casual rewards.  Since casual play rewards far fewer covers the urgency to champ characters is reduced so less ISO isn't really that big of a problem.  

    If you want to move quickly in this game it takes one of two things, either time (~3 hours a day) or money.  Honestly, I'd rather see the time investment shortened than have more ISO given out.  
    Steam suggests that I averaged about 2hrs/day since starting playing last April. I try to hit every PvP to 575, complete DDQ and hit progression in 3/4 PvE.

    50K ISO/day mentioned before sounds like an unreal dream. I top at maybe 35k/day and that's with VIP active.
    My current ISO deficit is about 1,5 mln ISO and that's without counting characters at 12 covers, that may get finished any day now.

    If I need just 31,5k/day to stay even that means 425 days to just get rid of my deficit (hitting just 3,5k above that). I don't even dare yo count how many more days to finish 4* tier that I'm just dipping my toes into.
     
    Edit: Nevermind, math suggests that I will need approx 4500 days to finish 4* tier, so... NO, with 2hrs/day (which is hardly casual), 13+ YEARS to finish 4* tier, while keeping up with new releases (which include 5*) is NOT FINE.
    The 50k per day is number for vets who are in top SCL (at least 7) and generally consuming 80+% of what the game has to offer (max progression PvE, at least 900 every PvE, 2* farming, etc.)

    Last I counted I was getting about 45K per day and that was with my 2* farm only having 4 champs.  I'm rebuilding it right now so I'll be interested to see how much more I'm getting with 13.
  • mckauhu
    mckauhu Posts: 740 Critical Contributor
    I agree in that part IF you want to champ them all, then there is big iso shortage. But less frustration if you champ just the ones you really like.

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