Venom Bomb suck!!! Fix the scaling!!!

grunth13

smkspy said:

Sorry, maybe if I were in this 5 star situation I would have more empathy. As it stands I don't have much when I look at the OP'S roster. Pay to play, accept the consequences.

That said, I do hope they make a fairer scaling system that promotes all players into taking the leap into 5 star land.

I understand the well, its not affecting me, so I don't care attitude, but let me ask you a single question...was this situation ever explained to anyone that if you go to 5 star land, your scaling will go to mega fist up your **** level?  What I do remember was the development team telling us over and over that having 5 stars won't **** up your scaling.  I remember that **** fake roster with maxed everything but never played a game that one of the mods showed us and the beginning scaling was ridiculously small to try and prove that.  I was well into 5 star land before anyone admitted, "hey we **** up and don't know how to fix it."  I was well in 5 star land when I had to play the same 3 characters for every match for 1 year.  So, please, if you think I should accept the consequences, maybe you should show me where they told me what the **** consequences were. 

Pants1000

I find it interesting when I see these posts complaining about 5* scaling, then I look at the leaders in my slice and most have champed 5's.  Even in Venom Bomb the top 2 both have champed 5's.  A couple guys in my top 10 have level 500+ 5's.

Is the problem that Hawkeye/BP/Thanos isn't a very good PVE team?  Most of the people I see at the top with 5's have Strange and Black Bolt.  For those of you in 5* land who are doing fine in this event, what team are you using?

I think one of the problems is that scaling doesn't seem to take boosted levels into account, which screws over 5* that are never boosted.  SC-based scaling will fix this too, but I bet we wouldn't see these complaints if 5's were boosted 50-100 levels.

ViralCore

541 Thanos, 536 Hawkey, 530 Black Panther? Why even play pve? Only mega whales have these levels. Save yourself some headaches, it takes much less time opening 40 packs.

cpeyton3535

smkspy said:

Sorry, maybe if I were in this 5 star situation I would have more empathy. As it stands I don't have much when I look at the OP'S roster. Pay to play, accept the consequences.

That said, I do hope they make a fairer scaling system that promotes all players into taking the leap into 5 star land.

Thing is it's not just players with mega-champed 5*s that are being slapped down when they dare to venture into 5* territory.  Just a single 5* on the roster completely ruined the game for this new player: 

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/702308#Comment_702308

Shouldn't adding a 5* be encouraged?  Instead, rostering one made the game so frustrating that selling the cover was the only course of action they felt they had.  That makes NO sense.  Nor does it makes sense to scale a veteran roster into the same frustrating situation.

Scaling in it's present form is broken.  Fortunately the developers recognize this, hence the tinkering with fixed scaling.  I have to think it's coming, they wouldn't expend the time and resources on something they didn't feel was worth pursuing.

Bowgentle

Pants1000 said:

I find it interesting when I see these posts complaining about 5* scaling, then I look at the leaders in my slice and most have champed 5's.  Even in Venom Bomb the top 2 both have champed 5's.  A couple guys in my top 10 have level 500+ 5's.

Is the problem that Hawkeye/BP/Thanos isn't a very good PVE team?  Most of the people I see at the top with 5's have Strange and Black Bolt.  For those of you in 5* land who are doing fine in this event, what team are you using?

I think one of the problems is that scaling doesn't seem to take boosted levels into account, which screws over 5* that are never boosted.  SC-based scaling will fix this too, but I bet we wouldn't see these complaints if 5's were boosted 50-100 levels.

Nobody is "doing fine in this event" with 5* scaling.
The scaling sucks and it takes forever to clear nodes.
We're using health packs we really need for PVP and all around the event SUCKS.
Boosting 5*s 50-100 levels would give us level 550 enemies - DO NOT WANT.
What nobody who hasn't seen 5* scaling first hand can know is that enemies scale exponentially once they're past level 400 or so.
The devs are either unwilling or unable to properly adjust how those 2* chars scale up.

I 100% everything Grunth is saying - we need cl-based fixed levels. NOW.

ViralCore

Bowgentle said:

Nobody is "doing fine in this event" with 5* scaling.
The scaling sucks and it takes forever to clear nodes.
We're using health packs we really need for PVP and all around the event SUCKS.
Boosting 5*s 50-100 levels would give us level 550 enemies - DO NOT WANT.
What nobody who hasn't seen 5* scaling first hand can know is that enemies scale exponentially once they're past level 400 or so.
The devs are either unwilling or unable to properly adjust how those 2* chars scale up.

I 100% everything Grunth is saying - we need cl-based fixed levels. NOW.

I have 5*s, I'm doing the usual 1hr clear while using 4-5 health packs.

Bowgentle

ViralCore said:

Bowgentle said:

Nobody is "doing fine in this event" with 5* scaling.
The scaling sucks and it takes forever to clear nodes.
We're using health packs we really need for PVP and all around the event SUCKS.
Boosting 5*s 50-100 levels would give us level 550 enemies - DO NOT WANT.
What nobody who hasn't seen 5* scaling first hand can know is that enemies scale exponentially once they're past level 400 or so.
The devs are either unwilling or unable to properly adjust how those 2* chars scale up.

I 100% everything Grunth is saying - we need cl-based fixed levels. NOW.

I have 5*s, I'm doing the usual 1hr clear while using 4-5 health packs.

You also have 370s.
Which Grunth also has, but the rest of us with 5* scaling don't.

Maceo511

ViralCore said:

Bowgentle said:

Nobody is "doing fine in this event" with 5* scaling.
The scaling sucks and it takes forever to clear nodes.
We're using health packs we really need for PVP and all around the event SUCKS.
Boosting 5*s 50-100 levels would give us level 550 enemies - DO NOT WANT.
What nobody who hasn't seen 5* scaling first hand can know is that enemies scale exponentially once they're past level 400 or so.
The devs are either unwilling or unable to properly adjust how those 2* chars scale up.

I 100% everything Grunth is saying - we need cl-based fixed levels. NOW.

I have 5*s, I'm doing the usual 1hr clear while using 4-5 health packs.

is it true you don't need health packs for PvP either?

ViralCore

Bowgentle said:

ViralCore said:

Bowgentle said:

Nobody is "doing fine in this event" with 5* scaling.
The scaling sucks and it takes forever to clear nodes.
We're using health packs we really need for PVP and all around the event SUCKS.
Boosting 5*s 50-100 levels would give us level 550 enemies - DO NOT WANT.
What nobody who hasn't seen 5* scaling first hand can know is that enemies scale exponentially once they're past level 400 or so.
The devs are either unwilling or unable to properly adjust how those 2* chars scale up.

I 100% everything Grunth is saying - we need cl-based fixed levels. NOW.

I have 5*s, I'm doing the usual 1hr clear while using 4-5 health packs.

You also have 370s.
Which Grunth also has, but the rest of us with 5* scaling don't.

So, it's the devs' fault that you have obscene amounts of 5*s and no maxed 4*s?

Bowgentle

ViralCore said:

Bowgentle said:

ViralCore said:

Bowgentle said:

Nobody is "doing fine in this event" with 5* scaling.
The scaling sucks and it takes forever to clear nodes.
We're using health packs we really need for PVP and all around the event SUCKS.
Boosting 5*s 50-100 levels would give us level 550 enemies - DO NOT WANT.
What nobody who hasn't seen 5* scaling first hand can know is that enemies scale exponentially once they're past level 400 or so.
The devs are either unwilling or unable to properly adjust how those 2* chars scale up.

I 100% everything Grunth is saying - we need cl-based fixed levels. NOW.

I have 5*s, I'm doing the usual 1hr clear while using 4-5 health packs.

You also have 370s.
Which Grunth also has, but the rest of us with 5* scaling don't.

So, it's the devs' fault that you have obscene amounts of 5*s and no maxed 4*s?

460s are obscene? M'kay.
My 4s are in their 330-340s.

ViralCore

Bowgentle said:

460s are obscene? M'kay.
My 4s are in their 330-340s.

I was actually talking about whomever has 541 Thanos, 536 Hawkey, 530 Black Panther. But, I doubt you're overscaled with 460s since people in my alliance, with similar leveled rosters, haven't been having any issues.

fight4thedream

"Yeah I totally crashed and burned in sub 3.I'd like to say it was fun but then I'd be lying. Luckily I still have a decent shot at T10. (Yeah I know, what in the world are you thinking going for T2? lol)"

To the devs credit, I did find the new Carnage and Venom team combo more thematically interesting. But....unfortunately due to the need for speed in these type of events, I couldn't really appreciate it and it ended up causing more frustration than enjoyment. Which is a shame since I am a big Spidey fan and would really like to like this event.

If I may be so bold as to suggest they retire Venom Bomb from the current competitive PvE format and instead build a non-competitive reward system around it? For example, have each clear reflect the standard scaling of each CL level (starting from either CL2 or 3) for the new system in development. That way all players will be able to find that sweet spot of what should be a challenging, entertaining and rewarding experience? 

The reward system would have to be tinkered with but I imagine the nodes would follow a progression that would go: 

1st clear: standard token
2nd clear: 100 Iso
3rd clear: Elite token
4th clear: 250 Iso
5th clear: Heroic Token
6th clear: 500 Iso
7th clear: 1 CP for easy nodes/3 CP for medium nodes/5 CP for hard nodes

Covers, HP and more ISO and tokens would be given through a personal point progression system. 

And that's just one idea! You might also want to consider a point multiplier system that rewards more points for selecting a higher difficulty setting(less grind) or less points for easier setting (more grind).

Honestly, I think this particular PvE event is better suited for a different reward scheme than the standard race through each node system. It would help diversify game play and I think would be welcome change. 

But once again, I may have said too much. 

grunth13

ViralCore said:

541 Thanos, 536 Hawkey, 530 Black Panther? Why even play pve? Only mega whales have these levels. Save yourself some headaches, it takes much less time opening 40 packs.

its iso...always the iso

grunth13

ViralCore said:

Bowgentle said:

Nobody is "doing fine in this event" with 5* scaling.
The scaling sucks and it takes forever to clear nodes.
We're using health packs we really need for PVP and all around the event SUCKS.
Boosting 5*s 50-100 levels would give us level 550 enemies - DO NOT WANT.
What nobody who hasn't seen 5* scaling first hand can know is that enemies scale exponentially once they're past level 400 or so.
The devs are either unwilling or unable to properly adjust how those 2* chars scale up.

I 100% everything Grunth is saying - we need cl-based fixed levels. NOW.

I have 5*s, I'm doing the usual 1hr clear while using 4-5 health packs.

The sweet spot seems to be right at 500 level 5's and 370 level 4's .  Also, you started amassing much earlier than I did, so that may be the difference.  But I do call **** on 1 hour clear because the amount of animations alone will add 10 minutes per sub.

mpqr7

I'm also looking forward to SCL-based scaling. My 5*s are only at around 450, but even so, my scaling is bad. Matches take forever, and my OML dies so quickly! It's too much. The SCL-scaling experiments have been pure heaven for me, because they were challenging, but didn't take hours of my life each day, just to hit max-prog.

Return, SCL-scaling... return!!!!!!

Spudgutter

grunth13 said:

ViralCore said:

541 Thanos, 536 Hawkey, 530 Black Panther? Why even play pve? Only mega whales have these levels. Save yourself some headaches, it takes much less time opening 40 packs.

its iso...always the iso

Just to play devil's advocate, isn't that the point?  Some people may not be "soft capping" their roster not because they don't want to jump into 5* land, but because they enjoy the diversity of using all of their champed 4*?

So there will be some story events where a 5* roster has trouble to maintain top 10, others where it isn't an issue.  And as someone already pointed out, there are some 5* rosters who aren't having a terrible time this event.  

Should the devs play test for a super minority of players, regardless of their sending habits, to make it a little easier for them to place in the top 10% of their bracket?  I don't know.  

MojoWild

grunth13 said:

MojoWild said:

Didn't notice any scaling issues myself, seemed pretty routine, easy enough. It want even bad enough that I was even looking at what levels they were at. But then I'm not using champed 5*, just a solid 4* roster.

I don't fault you for this, 4 star land is the way to go if you pve, but its not fair for us to have new releases from PVE only when we are facing each other.  We shouldn't be bracketed together.  Its not fair for you in PVP, not fair for me in PVE

I didn't say I was placing well enough to get a new character, just that I didn't have problems with the matches I had.

Avalanche Kincaid

It's clear that the upgrades to Venom and Carnage would make this event a living nightmare, but it's easy enough to get covers nowadays that I'm not even going to sweat only getting 2 Vultures.  In fact, I said screw it early on and just started grinding 4 hours before end time and doing 4/4 in the morning 6 hours after it started, absolutely worth 2 less covers.  My question to the devs is why did you change Carnage and Venom's power set in the first place?  Was it just to screw everyone during venom bomb?  If so mission accomplished.  I can't see any other reason as these 2 aren't the popular characters at marvel and nobody uses them even when boosted (I know BOP venom/medusa is beast but that's another story).  *salute*

smkspy

grunth13 said:

smkspy said:

Sorry, maybe if I were in this 5 star situation I would have more empathy. As it stands I don't have much when I look at the OP'S roster. Pay to play, accept the consequences.

That said, I do hope they make a fairer scaling system that promotes all players into taking the leap into 5 star land.

I understand the well, its not affecting me, so I don't care attitude, but let me ask you a single question...was this situation ever explained to anyone that if you go to 5 star land, your scaling will go to mega fist up your tinykitty level?  What I do remember was the development team telling us over and over that having 5 stars won't tinykitty up your scaling.  I remember that tinykitty fake roster with maxed everything but never played a game that one of the mods showed us and the beginning scaling was ridiculously small to try and prove that.  I was well into 5 star land before anyone admitted, "hey we tinykitty up and don't know how to fix it."  I was well in 5 star land when I had to play the same 3 characters for every match for 1 year.  So, please, if you think I should accept the consequences, maybe you should show me where they told me what the tinykitty consequences were. 

The consequences were readily apparent from day one that 5 stars vastly affected people's scaling. But people still collected them, still bought them. Yeah, they lied to us about consequences, but once we learned the consequences people continued and still continue to embrace them.

As I said before, I do hope a solution is found that benefits everyone, but in this case it is hard to find empathy when 5 star players dominate pvp and then come complain that they also can't dominate pve too.

grunth13

smkspy said:

grunth13 said:

smkspy said:

Sorry, maybe if I were in this 5 star situation I would have more empathy. As it stands I don't have much when I look at the OP'S roster. Pay to play, accept the consequences.

That said, I do hope they make a fairer scaling system that promotes all players into taking the leap into 5 star land.

I understand the well, its not affecting me, so I don't care attitude, but let me ask you a single question...was this situation ever explained to anyone that if you go to 5 star land, your scaling will go to mega fist up your tinykitty level?  What I do remember was the development team telling us over and over that having 5 stars won't tinykitty up your scaling.  I remember that tinykitty fake roster with maxed everything but never played a game that one of the mods showed us and the beginning scaling was ridiculously small to try and prove that.  I was well into 5 star land before anyone admitted, "hey we tinykitty up and don't know how to fix it."  I was well in 5 star land when I had to play the same 3 characters for every match for 1 year.  So, please, if you think I should accept the consequences, maybe you should show me where they told me what the tinykitty consequences were. 

The consequences were readily apparent from day one that 5 stars vastly affected people's scaling. But people still collected them, still bought them. Yeah, they lied to us about consequences, but once we learned the consequences people continued and still continue to embrace them.

As I said before, I do hope a solution is found that benefits everyone, but in this case it is hard to find empathy when 5 star players dominate pvp and then come complain that they also can't dominate pve too.

So as you say, "yeah, they lied to us about the consequences" so we should have put our mpq life on hold until they finally admitted it almost a year later?  FOR A YEAR, they tried telling it was all in our heads.  One would think that maybe I should believe the ones that actually made the game and designed it.  Very short sighted of you.  Hind sight is 20/20, by the time anyone knew what was up, it was already too late.