What is the true value of vaulted characters?

Straycat

n25philly said:

New McG said:

nick_chicane said:

New McG said:

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

They aren't "gone forever" they just become more scarce. And if you BH one of them, the 1/20 rate of acquisition is still way better than 1/50+. (Recall that BH was part of the vaulting system. You don't want vaulting, then assume BH didn't happen either.)

And "a whole load of uncercovered characters" describes many, many rosters pre-vaulting. I had a Carol at 7 covers when vaulting hit, and IMHB as my highest 4* at 282 or 283. My Carol just hit 300, and IMHB is at 284. 5 other 4*s have already passed IMHB. Old way, if I had typical luck and cover distribution, my IMHB maybe is at 290, and most of those characters aren't even champed yet. And now, I can focus fire my BH pulls to finish some of the old 4s, and eventually I can try and catch them up. The old way, it was a constant game of catch-up with no end in sight. 

So, in other words, nothing has changed then. Theres still people with a whole load of characters who are under covered. Which obviously means vaulting needs scrapping as it hasn't fixed any of the problems that were occurring previously. Bonus Heroes, also, will never fix the problem because the list of under covered characters will keep growing and growing and BHs aren't earned quickly enough to keep up. 

No, plenty has changed. You can still "earn all the characters" using BH, if that's all you're interested in. Grab one cover, roster them, and move on to the next one. It'll be just like the old system, in that you'll have a whole bunch of unusable 4* characters, some of which wouldn't be all that great even with 13 covers!

Meanwhile, those who are pulling their tokens can get current characters covered, tack a few covers/levels on whoever we'd like with BH, and run the current gang of 12 up at a decent clip, rather than a snail's pace.

Do you even read anyone of these posts before posting this garbage.  I I've said about a billion times I don't want to take everything back to the way it was.  I just want options.  Make the vintage heroics available all of the time and pullable with heroic tokens earned.  Have a vintage legendary that pulls either from the entire pool or just the vaulted stuff.  You can build fast, I can build slow.  Why do you have such an issue with that?  Hard to believe that not everyone wants to be stuck with the same small handful of characters?  That we might want to play as they character we like, not just what is forced on us?

Ok, but you claim the system forces you to hoard when it doesn't. If you are hoarding just to protest the devs, then say that. If you're hoarding in hopes that the system changes, then say that. But you can't say vaulting has ruined the game when most of your problems are inherit to the overall resource structure and not vaulting itself.

I think we can all agree that we would like access to vaulted characters. But this is not a vaulting vs pre vaulting system argument. I think most would agree that your strategy is not helping you out.

Flushed with iso, I would be looking for ways to spend it. I would cash in the elites and heroics, cash in any 144 2* champs and use the hp to open a roster spot. Then I would do the same old strategy of opening legendaries until that roster is filled, wait to open another, then repeat.

That versus doing nothing? Sort of to the original topic, whats the value of a nonvaulted character if you won't even try to get them before they become a vaulted character? I think a vaulted character is as valuable as they are usable, which for a casual 4* transitioner could be very valuable. Get 4-5 covers in any power and that character can be helpful. My TAHulk will likely never get champed, but with 5 green he was useful in the last boss event. If you end up with a 5/1/2 character when they leave would suck, but isnt it better than a 0/0/0? Depending on what that 5 cover ability is, you might still have a solid character.

n25philly

Straycat said:

n25philly said:

New McG said:

nick_chicane said:

New McG said:

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

They aren't "gone forever" they just become more scarce. And if you BH one of them, the 1/20 rate of acquisition is still way better than 1/50+. (Recall that BH was part of the vaulting system. You don't want vaulting, then assume BH didn't happen either.)

And "a whole load of uncercovered characters" describes many, many rosters pre-vaulting. I had a Carol at 7 covers when vaulting hit, and IMHB as my highest 4* at 282 or 283. My Carol just hit 300, and IMHB is at 284. 5 other 4*s have already passed IMHB. Old way, if I had typical luck and cover distribution, my IMHB maybe is at 290, and most of those characters aren't even champed yet. And now, I can focus fire my BH pulls to finish some of the old 4s, and eventually I can try and catch them up. The old way, it was a constant game of catch-up with no end in sight. 

So, in other words, nothing has changed then. Theres still people with a whole load of characters who are under covered. Which obviously means vaulting needs scrapping as it hasn't fixed any of the problems that were occurring previously. Bonus Heroes, also, will never fix the problem because the list of under covered characters will keep growing and growing and BHs aren't earned quickly enough to keep up. 

No, plenty has changed. You can still "earn all the characters" using BH, if that's all you're interested in. Grab one cover, roster them, and move on to the next one. It'll be just like the old system, in that you'll have a whole bunch of unusable 4* characters, some of which wouldn't be all that great even with 13 covers!

Meanwhile, those who are pulling their tokens can get current characters covered, tack a few covers/levels on whoever we'd like with BH, and run the current gang of 12 up at a decent clip, rather than a snail's pace.

Do you even read anyone of these posts before posting this garbage.  I I've said about a billion times I don't want to take everything back to the way it was.  I just want options.  Make the vintage heroics available all of the time and pullable with heroic tokens earned.  Have a vintage legendary that pulls either from the entire pool or just the vaulted stuff.  You can build fast, I can build slow.  Why do you have such an issue with that?  Hard to believe that not everyone wants to be stuck with the same small handful of characters?  That we might want to play as they character we like, not just what is forced on us?

Ok, but you claim the system forces you to hoard when it doesn't. If you are hoarding just to protest the devs, then say that. If you're hoarding in hopes that the system changes, then say that. But you can't say vaulting has ruined the game when most of your problems are inherit to the overall resource structure and not vaulting itself.

I think we can all agree that we would like access to vaulted characters. But this is not a vaulting vs pre vaulting system argument. I think most would agree that your strategy is not helping you out.

Flushed with iso, I would be looking for ways to spend it. I would cash in the elites and heroics, cash in any 144 2* champs and use the hp to open a roster spot. Then I would do the same old strategy of opening legendaries until that roster is filled, wait to open another, then repeat.

That versus doing nothing? Sort of to the original topic, whats the value of a nonvaulted character if you won't even try to get them before they become a vaulted character? I think a vaulted character is as valuable as they are usable, which for a casual 4* transitioner could be very valuable. Get 4-5 covers in any power and that character can be helpful. My TAHulk will likely never get champed, but with 5 green he was useful in the last boss event. If you end up with a 5/1/2 character when they leave would suck, but isnt it better than a 0/0/0? Depending on what that 5 cover ability is, you might still have a solid character.

I am hoarding until I have the resources where it makes sense to pull.  70% chance of pulling an usable characters makes pulling a bad idea.  Pretty much only being able to get the latest 12 means that not being close to being able to cover/level all 12 makes pulling a bad idea.  The hording is not fun which is why I play so much less.

I'm not big on cashing in the elites and heroics either since it will just throw off the balance of my roster. (I've farmed 2* since champing started)  Most of the 3*'s I regularly use are vaulted.  Last thing I need is for the usefulness to go away because the chosen ones killed the scaling for them.  Just like how I don't particularly want to level just 12 characters so I am stuck using just them.  When the right opportunity comes up I'll play along though, but I am not going to just throw resources away.  Even at the best of times I don't earn enough to do that.

I am not against vaulting is concept, I am against the horrible implementation.  I've seen so many other games that basically have the same concept without making the majority of character dissapear and forcing a small subset on you, and I just don't get why we can't have a competently designed system instead of what we currently have.

Straycat

n25philly said:

I am hoarding until I have the resources where it makes sense to pull.  70% chance of pulling an usable characters makes pulling a bad idea.  Pretty much only being able to get the latest 12 means that not being close to being able to cover/level all 12 makes pulling a bad idea.  The hording is not fun which is why I play so much less.

I'm not big on cashing in the elites and heroics either since it will just throw off the balance of my roster. (I've farmed 2* since champing started)  Most of the 3*'s I regularly use are vaulted.  Last thing I need is for the usefulness to go away because the chosen ones killed the scaling for them.  Just like how I don't particularly want to level just 12 characters so I am stuck using just them.  When the right opportunity comes up I'll play along though, but I am not going to just throw resources away.  Even at the best of times I don't earn enough to do that.

I am not against vaulting is concept, I am against the horrible implementation.  I've seen so many other games that basically have the same concept without making the majority of character dissapear and forcing a small subset on you, and I just don't get why we can't have a competently designed system instead of what we currently have.

Well you are hurting yourself for no reason. I'm not talking about hoarding cp, that makes sense. But hoarding elites and heroics does not.
I don't see your argument for hoarding elites. Generally people say one 4* champ won't mess up scaling that much, so half of your 3*s bumping up a few levels should be fine. And I don't know what teams your using, but most of the available 3*s are the better characters. Opening those elites and heroics will give you resources you need so you aren't 70% likely to waste. Not to mention that 70% will just grow every release.

n25philly

Ok, ok, I gave in.  Still don't get it.

I had one 5* rostered, so I sold it and decided to pull heroics until I got a replacement.  Pulled all 50+ (I left a 10 pack from a bunch of seasons past still there) without pulling a single 4*.  That's fine.  Pulled legendaries then until I got someone new and got Iron fist almost immediately.  Ended up with enough HP for another roster spot, pulled 3 agent venoms, 3 blades, and 1 carol before getting a Mordo to fill the spot.  Of course no Bonus Heroes.

I then pulled elites until I could finish off a 2* hawkeye that was 1/1/5 with two expiring covers.  By the time I leveled/rechamped 2*'s and leveled up the 3* hawkeye I got a couple of new covers for I was down nearly 250,000 iso from where I started despite gaining a shield level.

ugh...

NewMcG

n25philly said:

Ok, ok, I gave in.  Still don't get it.

I had one 5* rostered, so I sold it and decided to pull heroics until I got a replacement.  Pulled all 50+ (I left a 10 pack from a bunch of seasons past still there) without pulling a single 4*.  That's fine.  Pulled legendaries then until I got someone new and got Iron fist almost immediately.  Ended up with enough HP for another roster spot, pulled 3 agent venoms, 3 blades, and 1 carol before getting a Mordo to fill the spot.  Of course no Bonus Heroes.

I then pulled elites until I could finish off a 2* hawkeye that was 1/1/5 with two expiring covers.  By the time I leveled/rechamped 2*'s and leveled up the 3* hawkeye I got a couple of new covers for I was down nearly 250,000 iso from where I started despite gaining a shield level.

ugh...

Yes, when you actually want to get something in return, like a stronger roster, it costs something. It's pretty much how everything works anywhere.

Wumpushunter

it is not accurate, Thoress is vaulted and required. I spent 200 CP to get 1 cover BH for her so I could compete in the current pve and a chance to get vulture covers.  The last 3 or 4 big burritos have been vaulted characters. If they removed the vaulted from required I would not say a word about vaulting  ever again. 

Straycat

n25philly said:

Ok, ok, I gave in.  Still don't get it.

I had one 5* rostered, so I sold it and decided to pull heroics until I got a replacement.  Pulled all 50+ (I left a 10 pack from a bunch of seasons past still there) without pulling a single 4*.  That's fine.  Pulled legendaries then until I got someone new and got Iron fist almost immediately.  Ended up with enough HP for another roster spot, pulled 3 agent venoms, 3 blades, and 1 carol before getting a Mordo to fill the spot.  Of course no Bonus Heroes.

I then pulled elites until I could finish off a 2* hawkeye that was 1/1/5 with two expiring covers.  By the time I leveled/rechamped 2*'s and leveled up the 3* hawkeye I got a couple of new covers for I was down nearly 250,000 iso from where I started despite gaining a shield level.

ugh...

The point is that those tokens helped you open spots so you can pull legendaries. Now you're at 50% chance of an unusable cover? Goal is to get that to 0%, and you made progress. I think that was a successful experiment