What is the true value of vaulted characters?

Beer40

I'm not trying to get into a pro or anti Vaulting debate about this. You've all seen my opinions on it before. I simply understand a "casual" viewpoint. 1 in whatever is acceptable to them because they acquire so slowly almost every cover has value. With Vaulting they'll never get anyone above 3-4 covers and that will cycle. That sucks.

NewMcG

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

They aren't "gone forever" they just become more scarce. And if you BH one of them, the 1/20 rate of acquisition is still way better than 1/50+. (Recall that BH was part of the vaulting system. You don't want vaulting, then assume BH didn't happen either.)

And "a whole load of uncercovered characters" describes many, many rosters pre-vaulting. I had a Carol at 7 covers when vaulting hit, and IMHB as my highest 4* at 282 or 283. My Carol just hit 300, and IMHB is at 284. 5 other 4*s have already passed IMHB. Old way, if I had typical luck and cover distribution, my IMHB maybe is at 290, and most of those characters aren't even champed yet. And now, I can focus fire my BH pulls to finish some of the old 4s, and eventually I can try and catch them up. The old way, it was a constant game of catch-up with no end in sight. 

n25philly

smkspy said:

That's part of the problem with mobile app games, it hooks you with the perception of being a casual game, but the reality is that if you want to make any type of legitimate progress, the reality is that this isn't a casual game unless you decide to buy your progress. 

I don't know, I've tried a lot of these types of games and I have yet to find one that has a system that is anywhere near as bad as this one.  I haven't seen a single game that just said no to acquiring characters.  They will limit them, but I've never seen them made virtually unobtainable.  Maybe rotate them in and out, but just taking them away is ****.  Especially when you are talking a major license like Marvel where people want to play there favorite characters.  It's bad business to have the characters but tell people they aren't allowed to have them.

NewMcG

Beer40 said:

I'm not trying to get into a pro or anti Vaulting debate about this. You've all seen my opinions on it before. I simply understand a "casual" viewpoint. 1 in whatever is acceptable to them because they acquire so slowly almost every cover has value. With Vaulting they'll never get anyone above 3-4 covers and that will cycle. That sucks.

If they can only get 3-4 covers for a character from a pool of 12 in a 7-8ish month span, then covering any character the old way would be a process of probably a decade.

smkspy

n25philly said:

smkspy said:

That's part of the problem with mobile app games, it hooks you with the perception of being a casual game, but the reality is that if you want to make any type of legitimate progress, the reality is that this isn't a casual game unless you decide to buy your progress. 

I don't know, I've tried a lot of these types of games and I have yet to find one that has a system that is anywhere near as bad as this one.  I haven't seen a single game that just said no to acquiring characters.  They will limit them, but I've never seen them made virtually unobtainable.  Maybe rotate them in and out, but just taking them away is tinykitty.  Especially when you are talking a major license like Marvel where people want to play there favorite characters.  It's bad business to have the characters but tell people they aren't allowed to have them.

Well, vaulting is still new (ish). I think devs really didn't take into account the damn for characters once vaulted, but it is a short-sightnessed trend that they are known for...just look at 5 stars. 

They introduced the tier without a thought about how it would affect anyone other than vets (those vets at that point in time). 

The game was still a huge time sink before fives and before vaulting though. They've amplified that by 10 over the past two years.

smkspy

Hate for a double post, but can never figure out how to get rid of the quote thing if I erase a previous quote.

The bigger issue of all this is not vaulted 4s anymore, but the 5 star tier. We'll have 20 five stars by the end of the year, and doubt by then we'll have a reliable way of obtaining 5s other than rng. 

We had 20 something g 4s when LTs were introduced to help us build our 4s faster...something needs to be done soon concerning the 5 star tier and all the woes about 4s really pale in comparison to the mess that 5 stars, at such a high number, compare. 

Straycat

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

The first post vaulting released character has yet to exit the pool, so there's no real sample of this happening. If Coulson leaves and you still only have him at 2/2/1 or something, then maybe there would be something to this point.
But still, if the character you're chasing is approaching the finish line, do you try to chase it or do you just sit down and stop running? Its one thing to lament the change and the hypothetical character stuck at 3/4/5, but its another thing to stop opening any token just to spite the game.

Nick441234

New McG said:

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

They aren't "gone forever" they just become more scarce. And if you BH one of them, the 1/20 rate of acquisition is still way better than 1/50+. (Recall that BH was part of the vaulting system. You don't want vaulting, then assume BH didn't happen either.)

And "a whole load of uncercovered characters" describes many, many rosters pre-vaulting. I had a Carol at 7 covers when vaulting hit, and IMHB as my highest 4* at 282 or 283. My Carol just hit 300, and IMHB is at 284. 5 other 4*s have already passed IMHB. Old way, if I had typical luck and cover distribution, my IMHB maybe is at 290, and most of those characters aren't even champed yet. And now, I can focus fire my BH pulls to finish some of the old 4s, and eventually I can try and catch them up. The old way, it was a constant game of catch-up with no end in sight. 

So, in other words, nothing has changed then. Theres still people with a whole load of characters who are under covered. Which obviously means vaulting needs scrapping as it hasn't fixed any of the problems that were occurring previously. Bonus Heroes, also, will never fix the problem because the list of under covered characters will keep growing and growing and BHs aren't earned quickly enough to keep up. 

Spudgutter

Straycat said:

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

The first post vaulting released character has yet to exit the pool, so there's no real sample of this happening. If Coulson leaves and you still only have him at 2/2/1 or something, then maybe there would be something to this point.
But still, if the character you're chasing is approaching the finish line, do you try to chase it or do you just sit down and stop running? Its one thing to lament the change and the hypothetical character stuck at 3/4/5, but its another thing to stop opening any token just to spite the game.

At this point, i think that person is just trolling. To claim that characters are not obtainable or that we  "aren't allowed to have them" while the ability to get them exists is disingenuous, all while openly admitting to not even participate in the process.  

n25philly

Spudgutter said:

Straycat said:

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

The first post vaulting released character has yet to exit the pool, so there's no real sample of this happening. If Coulson leaves and you still only have him at 2/2/1 or something, then maybe there would be something to this point.
But still, if the character you're chasing is approaching the finish line, do you try to chase it or do you just sit down and stop running? Its one thing to lament the change and the hypothetical character stuck at 3/4/5, but its another thing to stop opening any token just to spite the game.

At this point, i think that person is just trolling. To claim that characters are not obtainable or that we  "aren't allowed to have them" while the ability to get them exists is disingenuous, all while openly admitting to not even participate in the process.  

As someone who has managed to pull over 100 standard tokens without pulling even a single 2* I don't trust rng inside of rng to build my roster

NewMcG

n25philly said:

Spudgutter said:

Straycat said:

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

The first post vaulting released character has yet to exit the pool, so there's no real sample of this happening. If Coulson leaves and you still only have him at 2/2/1 or something, then maybe there would be something to this point.
But still, if the character you're chasing is approaching the finish line, do you try to chase it or do you just sit down and stop running? Its one thing to lament the change and the hypothetical character stuck at 3/4/5, but its another thing to stop opening any token just to spite the game.

At this point, i think that person is just trolling. To claim that characters are not obtainable or that we  "aren't allowed to have them" while the ability to get them exists is disingenuous, all while openly admitting to not even participate in the process.  

As someone who has managed to pull over 100 standard tokens without pulling even a single 2* I don't trust rng inside of rng to build my roster

Well, now you're either exaggerating or flat out lying to try and make a point. Disregarding this take on things just got even easier.

n25philly

New McG said:

n25philly said:

Spudgutter said:

Straycat said:

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

The first post vaulting released character has yet to exit the pool, so there's no real sample of this happening. If Coulson leaves and you still only have him at 2/2/1 or something, then maybe there would be something to this point.
But still, if the character you're chasing is approaching the finish line, do you try to chase it or do you just sit down and stop running? Its one thing to lament the change and the hypothetical character stuck at 3/4/5, but its another thing to stop opening any token just to spite the game.

At this point, i think that person is just trolling. To claim that characters are not obtainable or that we  "aren't allowed to have them" while the ability to get them exists is disingenuous, all while openly admitting to not even participate in the process.  

As someone who has managed to pull over 100 standard tokens without pulling even a single 2* I don't trust rng inside of rng to build my roster

Well, now you're either exaggerating or flat out lying to try and make a point. Disregarding this take on things just got even easier.

I wish I was.  To be honest though I did have one time when I pulled 2 3*  covers from standards on consecutive days out of a total of about 6 draws.  I still tend to gravitate to the luck of the first time though.  RNG inside of RNG is just dumb though.  Bonus heroes has done exactly what it was meant to do, be enough of a gesture to keep everyone from revolting.  No more.

NewMcG

nick_chicane said:

New McG said:

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

They aren't "gone forever" they just become more scarce. And if you BH one of them, the 1/20 rate of acquisition is still way better than 1/50+. (Recall that BH was part of the vaulting system. You don't want vaulting, then assume BH didn't happen either.)

And "a whole load of uncercovered characters" describes many, many rosters pre-vaulting. I had a Carol at 7 covers when vaulting hit, and IMHB as my highest 4* at 282 or 283. My Carol just hit 300, and IMHB is at 284. 5 other 4*s have already passed IMHB. Old way, if I had typical luck and cover distribution, my IMHB maybe is at 290, and most of those characters aren't even champed yet. And now, I can focus fire my BH pulls to finish some of the old 4s, and eventually I can try and catch them up. The old way, it was a constant game of catch-up with no end in sight. 

So, in other words, nothing has changed then. Theres still people with a whole load of characters who are under covered. Which obviously means vaulting needs scrapping as it hasn't fixed any of the problems that were occurring previously. Bonus Heroes, also, will never fix the problem because the list of under covered characters will keep growing and growing and BHs aren't earned quickly enough to keep up. 

No, plenty has changed. You can still "earn all the characters" using BH, if that's all you're interested in. Grab one cover, roster them, and move on to the next one. It'll be just like the old system, in that you'll have a whole bunch of unusable 4* characters, some of which wouldn't be all that great even with 13 covers!

Meanwhile, those who are pulling their tokens can get current characters covered, tack a few covers/levels on whoever we'd like with BH, and run the current gang of 12 up at a decent clip, rather than a snail's pace.

n25philly

New McG said:

nick_chicane said:

New McG said:

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

They aren't "gone forever" they just become more scarce. And if you BH one of them, the 1/20 rate of acquisition is still way better than 1/50+. (Recall that BH was part of the vaulting system. You don't want vaulting, then assume BH didn't happen either.)

And "a whole load of uncercovered characters" describes many, many rosters pre-vaulting. I had a Carol at 7 covers when vaulting hit, and IMHB as my highest 4* at 282 or 283. My Carol just hit 300, and IMHB is at 284. 5 other 4*s have already passed IMHB. Old way, if I had typical luck and cover distribution, my IMHB maybe is at 290, and most of those characters aren't even champed yet. And now, I can focus fire my BH pulls to finish some of the old 4s, and eventually I can try and catch them up. The old way, it was a constant game of catch-up with no end in sight. 

So, in other words, nothing has changed then. Theres still people with a whole load of characters who are under covered. Which obviously means vaulting needs scrapping as it hasn't fixed any of the problems that were occurring previously. Bonus Heroes, also, will never fix the problem because the list of under covered characters will keep growing and growing and BHs aren't earned quickly enough to keep up. 

No, plenty has changed. You can still "earn all the characters" using BH, if that's all you're interested in. Grab one cover, roster them, and move on to the next one. It'll be just like the old system, in that you'll have a whole bunch of unusable 4* characters, some of which wouldn't be all that great even with 13 covers!

Meanwhile, those who are pulling their tokens can get current characters covered, tack a few covers/levels on whoever we'd like with BH, and run the current gang of 12 up at a decent clip, rather than a snail's pace.

Do you even read anyone of these posts before posting this garbage.  I I've said about a billion times I don't want to take everything back to the way it was.  I just want options.  Make the vintage heroics available all of the time and pullable with heroic tokens earned.  Have a vintage legendary that pulls either from the entire pool or just the vaulted stuff.  You can build fast, I can build slow.  Why do you have such an issue with that?  Hard to believe that not everyone wants to be stuck with the same small handful of characters?  That we might want to play as they character we like, not just what is forced on us?

Nick441234

Spudgutter said:

Straycat said:

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

The first post vaulting released character has yet to exit the pool, so there's no real sample of this happening. If Coulson leaves and you still only have him at 2/2/1 or something, then maybe there would be something to this point.
But still, if the character you're chasing is approaching the finish line, do you try to chase it or do you just sit down and stop running? Its one thing to lament the change and the hypothetical character stuck at 3/4/5, but its another thing to stop opening any token just to spite the game.

At this point, i think that person is just trolling. To claim that characters are not obtainable or that we  "aren't allowed to have them" while the ability to get them exists is disingenuous, all while openly admitting to not even participate in the process.  

I'm talking about casual players here. People who dont play everyday. For those people, these characters will leave packs without them fully covering them. 

Under the old system, they were always able to fully cover characters because they were always available in packs. Now, they only have until they leave the packs, and then they are gone, other than selecting them as Bonus Heroes. Thats a poor system. 

Nick441234

New McG said:

nick_chicane said:

New McG said:

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

They aren't "gone forever" they just become more scarce. And if you BH one of them, the 1/20 rate of acquisition is still way better than 1/50+. (Recall that BH was part of the vaulting system. You don't want vaulting, then assume BH didn't happen either.)

And "a whole load of uncercovered characters" describes many, many rosters pre-vaulting. I had a Carol at 7 covers when vaulting hit, and IMHB as my highest 4* at 282 or 283. My Carol just hit 300, and IMHB is at 284. 5 other 4*s have already passed IMHB. Old way, if I had typical luck and cover distribution, my IMHB maybe is at 290, and most of those characters aren't even champed yet. And now, I can focus fire my BH pulls to finish some of the old 4s, and eventually I can try and catch them up. The old way, it was a constant game of catch-up with no end in sight. 

So, in other words, nothing has changed then. Theres still people with a whole load of characters who are under covered. Which obviously means vaulting needs scrapping as it hasn't fixed any of the problems that were occurring previously. Bonus Heroes, also, will never fix the problem because the list of under covered characters will keep growing and growing and BHs aren't earned quickly enough to keep up. 

No, plenty has changed. You can still "earn all the characters" using BH, if that's all you're interested in. Grab one cover, roster them, and move on to the next one. It'll be just like the old system, in that you'll have a whole bunch of unusable 4* characters, some of which wouldn't be all that great even with 13 covers!

Meanwhile, those who are pulling their tokens can get current characters covered, tack a few covers/levels on whoever we'd like with BH, and run the current gang of 12 up at a decent clip, rather than a snail's pace.

So this new, supposedly better system, is to roster one cover for every character and move on to the next one? Do you even read the nonsense you write? If thats an improvement over being able to roster all the characters you want, at your own pace, and then eventually fully cover them, at your own pace, then you live in a mad, mad world. 

Felessa

The real issue is that there are people who just want to be able to pull from a pool with all 4* that aren't available in the latest 12 (myself included). Nothing wrong with the actual latest 12 pool either, I know it can help new players and those who just want to pull the newest 4*s. This is the only thing missing in the actual system: OPTION.

Another LT, with all remaining 4*s (and preferably with no 5*s, because their are available in the other two types of LT), would please and satisfy a lot of players, without harm those ones who prefer to pull from the latest 12.

Spudgutter

nick_chicane said:

Spudgutter said:

Straycat said:

nick_chicane said:

This was a casual game, until vaulting came in, though. You could play as casually as you liked and still earn all the characters. Now we have vaulting, you only have the time until the leave packs, and then they are gone forever. Its an utterly ridiculous system. 

Other than the hardcore players, everyone else will just end up with a whole load of under covered characters and no way to realistically finish them. 

The first post vaulting released character has yet to exit the pool, so there's no real sample of this happening. If Coulson leaves and you still only have him at 2/2/1 or something, then maybe there would be something to this point.
But still, if the character you're chasing is approaching the finish line, do you try to chase it or do you just sit down and stop running? Its one thing to lament the change and the hypothetical character stuck at 3/4/5, but its another thing to stop opening any token just to spite the game.

At this point, i think that person is just trolling. To claim that characters are not obtainable or that we  "aren't allowed to have them" while the ability to get them exists is disingenuous, all while openly admitting to not even participate in the process.  

I'm talking about casual players here. People who dont play everyday. For those people, these characters will leave packs without them fully covering them. 

Under the old system, they were always able to fully cover characters because they were always available in packs. Now, they only have until they leave the packs, and then they are gone, other than selecting them as Bonus Heroes. Thats a poor system. 

If someone is so casual that they can't get to 13/13 on a character in the 6 months that they are available in the tokens, they would have a heck of a time fully covering them the old way.

I am not saying i would oppose another token, either. I think the devs are doing themselves a disservice.  Create a token where all of the vaulted 4* are available, just them, no 5*. That way people like you and others can continue to pull from them, and i can continue pulling from the 12.  For the life of me, i cannot see any problem with making everyone happy. 

smkspy

Don't leave the 5s out. I'd love a true classic 4 star token for vaulted characters, but if it's 20 CP it better have the chance for some 5s too. 

I could easily see myself buying tokens from both pools, but collecting 5s is still a major problem. One day I would like to have my bssm and strange higher than 2-3 covers.

broll

Beer40 said:

n25philly said:

New McG said:

n25philly said:

New McG said:

n25philly said:

New McG said:

n25philly said:

Spudgutter said:

n25philly said:

nick_chicane said:

It annoys me too! I have had to stop drawing LTs because I pretty much have all the latest 12 fully covered now. I'm going to have to hoard now for a few months so a few of them can drop out of packs. I never had this problem prior to vaulting, I could draw when I wanted and would only occasionally get dupes. Opening tokens was a big part of the enjoyment of this game, and thats now been taken away for at least a few months. 

Haven't been able to open an elite, heroic or legendary since vaulting was implemented.  I guess we are supposed to see the number of unusable tokens piling up as fun?  It's beyond annoying but my words would probably just get me banned.

Seeing as how you haven't opened anything since vaulting was implemented, i always question your opinion on it.  Obviously, you have a preconceived notion against it.

You have hundreds of elites and a bunch of heroics that you have not opened, yet claim are "unusable."  Why?  If you need hp to for roster slots, champ rewards from all those 2* will give you that. 

You know what else will get you hp?  Playing the game.  You also said you barely play anymore.  How do you expect to get better rewards and better characters if you refuse to play the game and refuse to open the rewards?

I am all for discussing the pros and cons of vaulting, but it's hard to take your negative opinion seriously.

lol, I love though unless I open everything and throw away a lot of stuff that I can't afford to throw away my opinion is useless?  That seems sillier.  I am a casual player.  Vaulting is bad for casual players.  I don't want to have to throw away resources.  I also don't want to be stuck only playing as a small handful of characters.  Even if I did open everything up, then what?  I maybe get to champ 1-3 characters?  Great, now I get to go back to hording yet I'm stuck playing those 2-3 characters for everything.  Probably the only thing worse than the current hording hell.

It's a horrible system all around.  Why does how much I play matter to you?  The new system will suck no matter what, so it doesn't matter.  If things don't change it will likely be years before I would be in good shape to open anything and even then since it's just the last 12 getting shoved down our throats I still get stuck with a limited usable roster and a good number of characters I really want likely to for forever unusable.  So much fun!  So I wait and wait for the fix they have promised over and over again...

As that person said, you've obviously made your mind up. Honestly, given that you've literally used over a hundred posts complaining about it since the system went into place, and it isn't going anywhere, I'm startled that you play at all. 

(And if you think 12 characters makes it impossible to keep up on roster slots, now imagine there's 50 characters to roster and try to cover all at the same time. The horror!)

Uh, in the old system you didn't have a limited time to cover/level them so your point on the end is pure tinykitty.  With the old system of if they would give us a way to pull the old stuff it would be an issue because people could play the game the way they want, and actually enjoy it again. THE HORROR!

And yet you'd still not have enough HP to slot a single character right now, and have 30+ more of them to have to pay HP to roster... 

Talk about not getting it.  In the old system I let the legenday tokens/CP sit.  When I get to 1000 hp, if I don't have any covers sitting waiting to be rostered, I would pull until I got someone to take that new roster spot and stop.  It's slow but it worked.  No pressure to rush anything because you can always get more covers.  New system if you can't cover/level the latest 12 there is no point in pulling anything.

So... this is the exact same thing you can do now, except for a pool of 12 instead of 50? 

And when they rotate out and I can't get covers for them anymore?

Interesting take. I never thought about Vaulting and the casual player before. They'll never cover anyone now. But the makers of the game had to know that so I guess they decided it was acceptable.

IT's one of the reasons I've been so vocal against it.  I don't like it for me, but I got off pretty easy comared to someone casual or who started after vaulting.