Is out of game collusion ruining PVP?

Spudgutter

Maybe

Vhailorx said:

Spudgutter said:

revskip said:

entrailbucket said:

nick_chicane said:

Everyone should fight everyone. Sod this "I know you so I wont hit you" nonsense. Just fight everyone. 

I agree with this 100%. Coordination is just a way for low/non-spenders to get the best rewards and feel like they're good at the game (and no, your $10 a month to buy shields so you can hop off cupcakes to 5000 points per event is not "spending"). If we could somehow remove coordination, we could make sure that the best rewards only go to the biggest rosters/best players, which is the way things should be.

So by removing a bit of the outside of game exploits they created the problem that is now being complained about, namely lower level rosters being "bullied".  
I'd like the people who feel like they are bullied to check out the Line community before just throwing around accusations that are mostly off-base.  

Not sure if you are purposefully trying to confuse two different issues, or if it's an accident.

As far as i know, people are not complaining about just getting hit when they get to a certain threshold. You show me that person, and i will agree with you to tell them that it happens in pvp and to deal with it.  

What we are talking about are people who, by their own decision(either by being a forum visitor and being aware, or not a forumite ignorant of line and shield check rooms), would rather play the game as designed, and not mess around with other apps and communities.  

On occasion, these people run afoul of so called jerks, and then get targeted for retribution by that person and everyone else that thinks it's fun or cool to be an anonymous jerk.

This is really a strawman argument gutter.  The number of players who DON'T participate in Line/coordination, but DO get targeted for extreme retribution (by which i assume you mean multiple players all targeting a single individual as many times as possible out of malice or spite, since single retaliation nodes are surely part of the "game as designed" by any definition) is minimal.  It's just not that big a part of the scene.  Most people coordinating are doing it to make the experience more enjoyable, and they follow the etiquette as much as possible.  A small portion of people enjoy sniping (i.e. targeting other, known players while they are shield hopping). And there are occasional feuds/wars between some heavy hitters.  But those activities are basically all intramural, and they only affect your average player insofar as they raise or depress overall scores in each slice. 

Note that when you win a match and discover that you have lost a couple hundred points in the process it is NOT because you have been targeted.  That just means that you climbed to a score which your roster could not sustain.  That happens whenever your defensive team becomes significantly weaker than the average defensive team with the same score, rendering you a very tempting target and inevitably drawing tons of hits.  This has nothing to do with coordination, and maybe that is some of the confusion that leads to these endless arguments. 

Second point first, i specifically said "As far as i know, people are not complaining about just getting hit when they get to a certain threshold. You show me that person, and i will agree with you to tell them that it happens in pvp and to deal with it."

I *agree* with you on that point.  If i am climbing, and come out of a match to several losses, that is what happens.  you are not getting an argument from me.  in fact, isn't throwing out a distorted view of your opponents position to knock it down the literal definition of strawman????

as far as *my* supposed strawman, loki posted after you saying that he will target a person to keep their progression and/or placement down.  while it may not happen often, the fact that it happens at all means my argument has a leg to stand on.

I am not sure how to fix the system, but i know that i am not a fan of it as it is.  apparently, i am not alone, at least as far as forum goers go.  and anecdotally, since it seems that every pvp thread has people commenting about getting in and getting out at the 10 cp, it is possible there may be more people than just in this poll/thread who feel that way as well.   

Spudgutter

Maybe

lokiagentofhotness said:

Spudgutter said:

revskip said:

entrailbucket said:

nick_chicane said:

Everyone should fight everyone. Sod this "I know you so I wont hit you" nonsense. Just fight everyone. 

I agree with this 100%. Coordination is just a way for low/non-spenders to get the best rewards and feel like they're good at the game (and no, your $10 a month to buy shields so you can hop off cupcakes to 5000 points per event is not "spending"). If we could somehow remove coordination, we could make sure that the best rewards only go to the biggest rosters/best players, which is the way things should be.

So by removing a bit of the outside of game exploits they created the problem that is now being complained about, namely lower level rosters being "bullied".  
I'd like the people who feel like they are bullied to check out the Line community before just throwing around accusations that are mostly off-base.  

Not sure if you are purposefully trying to confuse two different issues, or if it's an accident.

As far as i know, people are not complaining about just getting hit when they get to a certain threshold. You show me that person, and i will agree with you to tell them that it happens in pvp and to deal with it.  

What we are talking about are people who, by their own decision(either by being a forum visitor and being aware, or not a forumite ignorant of line and shield check rooms), would rather play the game as designed, and not mess around with other apps and communities.  

On occasion, these people run afoul of so called jerks, and then get targeted for retribution by that person and everyone else that thinks it's fun or cool to be an anonymous jerk.

I'm sorry but basically what those people are saying is they want to hit others and take their points but don't want to get hit in return because it's "bullying". These folks need to put on their big girl pants and suck it up, because if they want to play how they want to play (as ~designed, as they claim) they don't also get to dictate how others play. FYI, I don't need a line app to remember your username and hit you repeatedly. I mean seriously if you take my points why would I want to suck it up and have you also get a higher placement than me. If I'm playing the game "as-designed" I'm going to do whatever it takes to win and to ensure you don't, whether it's to get top 5 placement or to make sure you don't get maximum progression so that you will be stiffer competition in future. That's "competition" and "as-designed" because hey, it's player versus player right? If hitting someone repeatedly until they give up and lose hope is how to accomplish victory, then folks are gonna keep doing it. It's not bullying, it's game-play.

do me a favor and read some of my posts, specifically the one you are quoting.  "As far as i know, people are not complaining about just getting hit when they get to a certain threshold. You show me that person, and i will agree with you to tell them that it happens in pvp and to deal with it."

Just like i just said to Vhailorx, I am not sure how to fix the system, but i know that i am not a fan of it as it is.  i get that you can see the name of the person you are going to attack, and see the name of the person who attacked you.  i would rather just open up pvp, look at the team, see if i can beat it, see if the points worth it, and either fight or skip.  

just because you like it this way doesn't mean the system can't be better.  but also, just because i don't like it, doesn't mean it will change.  but i can get on the forum and speak my mind so the devs know there are people out here who would like to see a better, possibly more fair system.

I don't like the fact that i may only see the same person several times in a row, so maybe instead of just accepting the broken system as it is, jump on the "maybe" bandwagon with me and try to make it better.  

or, keep being a self professed bully and use your time and energy to be the sun tzu of MPQ and "hit someone repeatedly until they give up and lose hope"

Ducky

***This thread has about run its course. Locking it so things don't get any more heated.***