Is out of game collusion ruining PVP?

Beer40

I believe its possible that things like LINE, etc... are ruining PVP by manipulating the natural order of how PVP should play out. Feel free to discuss.

Beer40

Yes

I don't have a problem with the LINE community. If people want to socialize over a game, more power to them. But PVP was developed without outside sources in mind. I believe using these outside resources to gain more rewards + a tactical advantage for certain players using them is actually what is "breaking" PVP. 

I get the aspect of rewards being stingy, and people helping each other to get more, but it may actually be messing up the PVP experience in general.

I don't know any good way to fix it. People have suggested hiding names of who you play. I think that would absolutely help. I don't know if its the perfect solution but it might be worth a look.

broll

Yes

I tend to agree.  The amount of manipulating and bouncing around within the game mechanics in this game is ludicrous, especially for a mobile P2W game.  PvP needs a major overhaul IMO.

Daiches

No

Lol.. "out of game collusion" as you so negatively call it, is the main reason 1200 progression scores are even available to be reached. If you are looking to play friendly with groups of 200 people (some find that number daunting, some don't want to play friendly at all, etc.. each plays as he wants), you are welcome to join check rooms. You will have an easier time and you may make some friends. 
Being able to play together with friends is what has kept this game going for so long after all.

shmoli

No

PVP has always been a broken experience.  The system has always needed an overhaul.  People using line are just making the most out of a bad scenario.  In fact without people using line to coordinate and inflate the point for everyone, then the top PVP rewards would be unreachable.  

For the record i used to be in shield check rooms, so i understand how it all works.  I no longer do it as i dont have the time to regularly grind for the top rewards.  I used to view it as cheating, till i tried it out.  It gave me a whole different perspective of it.  

The rockett

No

As @Daiches said, without LINE and the friendships that a lot of us have developed from it manly because of PVP, this game would be dead. I would think over 50% of the people if not more would not be playing. Also, I don't like the idea of hiding names. That means you could be hitting teamates that you work with in your alliance to get placement for the alliance.  There are a few things I think that are broken with PVP (MMR, gap of rewards from 900-1200, etc) but this is not one of them. 

aa25

No

From my point of view, those apps are only better replacements on in-game chat. Technically, you can do the exact same thing with the in-game chat but less efficient, therefore people adopt 3rd party apps like LINE, etc. This coordinate-style play is more or less a direct consequence of a PvP with shielding system and how severe the punishment is when you lose a match. Once you have certain amount of point, you just don't have any other un-shielded opponents that worth any points for you to pick but anyone else, regardless of their scores, can pick you. That certain point could be as low as 800-900 even at near the end of the event. Coordinating is just a practical way to break this stalemate. (A non-practical way is you keep skipping for hours until you find some profitable match.)

Rhycar

No

Lol at the question. No, of course it isn't the problem. However, the fact that D3 has yet to adjust the game and rewards for the realities of modern PvP play might be more problematic. Hiding player names is an awful idea; you might as well disband alliances as that point. There would be no way a team could collaborate.

pheregas

No

Like others, PVP became an enjoyable experience for myself when first entering a shield check room.  We've built a community there.  I've met people in those rooms that I actually talk to about non-game related things.  

Shield check rooms have not broken PVP.  They've saved it.

smkspy

Maybe

I dunno. Pvp needs a major overhaul is without question, but I don't blame line or outside groups working together. Those things are the response to pvp being perpetually broken not the reason.

In a perfect world, I would basic milestones that you can't fall under but still loose points in between  hitting them would be the best answer, but pvp is all about shielding and shielding is all about $$$$$$.

So milestones would mean that we could all start pvp the moment it begins rather than jump in 2 hours before it ends, but $$$$$ from the shields would disappear.

broll

Yes

smkspy said:

I dunno. Pvp needs a major overhaul is without question, but I don't blame line or outside groups working together. Those things are the response to pvp being perpetually broken not the reason.

This is a fair point.  I think the collusion is bad, but I don't fault the players, I fault the poor game design.

The rockett

No

I don't want to veer off this topic, but again without a third party application like Line, this game would take a major hit if not dead.  It would be candy crush with a Marvel spin. 

No recruitment rooms.
No pve bracket rooms.
No hoarding rooms.
No alliance rooms.
No coordation.
No BUYERS ROOMS, I think I heard heads explode at D3/Demi. 
Nothing. 

JHawkInc

It's a bit of a loaded question.

PVP is horrible, but you're talking about a symptom, not the disease itself.

If PVP were built so that out-of-game coordination were not only not possible but not necessary, it wouldn't matter what people do out of game. But that would require a massive overhaul, not just a simple switch.

ZeroKarma

No

Agree with the above NO votes. Without LINE this game doesn't exist, at least not in it's current form. It's the community that has kept this alive, and kept people pumping large amounts of money into the game. Without it, many people like myself would have quit a long, long time ago. The gameplay is not fulfilling enough to snare my attention and countless hours played by itself. 

It is also true that outside collaboration is the only reason that scores are achievable by many. We would likely need to set progressions much lower and getting there would be even more annoying than it already is. 

Getting rid of names would not completely destroy this process, (Q my 329 Riri and 457 OML!) but it would take a lot of the personal interaction out of the game and diminish it. 

For anyone that has used LINE and been a part of the larger MPQ community, I would be surprised if you saw a single YES vote, which means to me that most everyone that takes the game seriously enough and wants to put time into it has found it enjoyable. Maybe you should try it if you haven't? 

Long story short. If outside collaboration disappeared, all of the people that voted YES would have an even more difficult experience, a large number of the experienced players that spend a lot of money would quit instantly, and the game would die. 

Cheers!

smkspy

Maybe

Yeah, the social aspect really keeps this game going, but something needs to be done that works in those that don't want the full social experience but also want to legitimately engage in pvp. 

PVE at least has progression for those not able to understand the tricks to placement. Pvp is a slaughter house in both aspects.

I really love pvp, but I jump in 2 hours before the event ends, hit 5757-650, and shield for around top 50 placement. That's about all the effort and resources I can put into it given its current structure.

Stony

No

Did I time travel to two years ago?   Old subject is old.  

It would be different if you were being excluded from LINE.  The community there is one of the most welcoming and helpful I've been a part of.  This is comparable to complaining that people who use shields have an unfair advantage because you choose not to buy them.   

alaeth

No

Alliance in-game chat is terrible.


LINE allows us to post stickers, screenshots, and chat without the game open and active.  The multitude of platforms LINE works on allows me to stay connected to my alliance (and co-ordinate with commanders).

More recently, I joined a shield-check room and learned and entirely different aspect of the game.  A larger community than my alliance, all working together (not fighting each other) to reach higher scores.

I think LINE is essential to over-come the design of PvP and reach right rewards.

badsaj

Yes

There is a lot of strawmanning from the NO votes here. The question is not whether outside collaboration is a bad thing, clearly it's not. The online community is a critical part of the success of this game. The question is whether or not there are cases of members of this community banding together to target people for something. If this is the case (I rarely play PVP, so I haven't seen it) then the answer is YES. I don't know how you stop it if it is happening, but obviously eliminating the ability to communicate using outside sources is not the answer.

Beer40

Yes

Well, I've seen a few good points...and a lot of personal preference that appears to read as "actual fact". Its not really helping to change my mind any. 

I did not expect any support from the LINE community in this post, as it directly questions outside involvement in the game. However, I was hoping to see better justification as to why outside involvement isn't playing a role in the problems in PVP. 

Call my cynical, but I find it hard to believe that this game would shut down if it shut down people's ability to coordinate between alliances. Maybe a few would quit. Maybe even a few spenders. But I'm fairly sure that spenders have quit for other reasons and I'm fairly sure they've found new spenders to replace them.

Anyway, no hard feelings against your community, just really wondering if its isn't part of the problem, rather than the solution.

animaniactoo

Maybe

I disagree with some of the points above - in game chat you can only chat with your own alliance, not other players outside your alliance. Also, there are the forums for several things like recruiting and bracket updates - not used as much because people are relying on Line, etc. for it, but the opening exists.

However, if coordinating outside of the game is the only way to make it enjoyable, then using Line isn't ruining PVP, but PVP is broken and isn't getting fixed because people are finding a way to make it work despite the issues.

(I get the community sense - I'm here in part for that, to talk about a game I enjoy. Sure that ends up with talking about non-game stuff and building relationships that start with the shared interest. It should simply be possible to build those relationships via Line (probably in a deeper way than here on the forums), without needing to rely on it to make PVP rewardable to play.)

Dayv

No

badsaj said:

There is a lot of strawmanning from the NO votes here. The question is not whether outside collaboration is a bad thing, clearly it's not. The online community is a critical part of the success of this game. The question is whether or not there are cases of members of this community banding together to target people for something.

I'm not sure that straw-manning means what you think it does, and "the question" as provided in the poll is... exactly the question you say it isn't.